New remote isn't working in spite of being synchronized!!
03-16-2005, 01:43 PM
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New remote isn't working in spite of being synchronized!!
Hello group,
Any input on the following will be greatly appreciated.
I just received a new remote key directly from Germany (Truck is a 2002 400CDI and was bought in Europe and is Euro spec).
Anyway, I synchronized it per the pertinent section in the owners manual (The part about turning the on switch to position 2 then off, then take key out and within 60 seconds press lock and keep on pressing it and while doing that press unlock 5 times then release, then pressing any button on the remote for final activation).
The problem is that the key will not lock/unlock the truck yet it will turn the engine on and the truck will not die moments after that, as it should with a remote not belonging to it!!!
I know that firsthand, because I always theorize that it is cheap insurance to have a couple keys cut (just the blade part in this case) in case I lose the originals. This way I can gain access to the inside of the truck. Those keys do unlock the door (not without tripping the Alarm) and do start the engine but the engine dies in just a few seconds.
I also know that the synchronizing sequence I used was correct because the one key I received with the truck had weak batteries and it would not work after replacing the batteries until I synchronized it per the instructions above.
I am aware of the maximum number of 8 keys which can be recognized by the system but it is so unlikely that a not so old a truck would have had all 8 exhausted!! And if this is the scenario how can the new key turn it on and keep on doing so?! Or is there programming then synchronizing for a "new" key?? At the dealer for instance?!
Thanks for all the help you have given me in the past few years and I apologize for a long post.
Any input on the following will be greatly appreciated.
I just received a new remote key directly from Germany (Truck is a 2002 400CDI and was bought in Europe and is Euro spec).
Anyway, I synchronized it per the pertinent section in the owners manual (The part about turning the on switch to position 2 then off, then take key out and within 60 seconds press lock and keep on pressing it and while doing that press unlock 5 times then release, then pressing any button on the remote for final activation).
The problem is that the key will not lock/unlock the truck yet it will turn the engine on and the truck will not die moments after that, as it should with a remote not belonging to it!!!
I know that firsthand, because I always theorize that it is cheap insurance to have a couple keys cut (just the blade part in this case) in case I lose the originals. This way I can gain access to the inside of the truck. Those keys do unlock the door (not without tripping the Alarm) and do start the engine but the engine dies in just a few seconds.
I also know that the synchronizing sequence I used was correct because the one key I received with the truck had weak batteries and it would not work after replacing the batteries until I synchronized it per the instructions above.
I am aware of the maximum number of 8 keys which can be recognized by the system but it is so unlikely that a not so old a truck would have had all 8 exhausted!! And if this is the scenario how can the new key turn it on and keep on doing so?! Or is there programming then synchronizing for a "new" key?? At the dealer for instance?!
Thanks for all the help you have given me in the past few years and I apologize for a long post.
03-19-2005, 08:31 PM
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The new key needs to be "learned" at the dealer using the SDS computer. The steps are the same as synchronizing, but the vehicles computer is put into a "learning" mode with the shop computer. On the starting problem, I'm not entirely sure on a 2002 why it won't start. Are you sure these are new keys ordered for this truck? I mean the "blocky" part, not the blade, the remote itself. Obviously the blade is correct.
Also on a 2002, you can have 24 total keys, though only 8 at any given time (each of the 8 can be replaced 2 additional times, 8X3=24. The early 98-99 ML's are the ones where only 8 are possible, no replacement keys can be ordered, 8X1=8
Gilly
Also on a 2002, you can have 24 total keys, though only 8 at any given time (each of the 8 can be replaced 2 additional times, 8X3=24. The early 98-99 ML's are the ones where only 8 are possible, no replacement keys can be ordered, 8X1=8
Gilly
03-20-2005, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Gilly
The new key needs to be "learned" at the dealer using the SDS computer. The steps are the same as synchronizing, but the vehicles computer is put into a "learning" mode with the shop computer. On the starting problem, I'm not entirely sure on a 2002 why it won't start. Are you sure these are new keys ordered for this truck? I mean the "blocky" part, not the blade, the remote itself. Obviously the blade is correct.
Also on a 2002, you can have 24 total keys, though only 8 at any given time (each of the 8 can be replaced 2 additional times, 8X3=24. The early 98-99 ML's are the ones where only 8 are possible, no replacement keys can be ordered, 8X1=8
Gilly
Also on a 2002, you can have 24 total keys, though only 8 at any given time (each of the 8 can be replaced 2 additional times, 8X3=24. The early 98-99 ML's are the ones where only 8 are possible, no replacement keys can be ordered, 8X1=8
Gilly
The no start issue comes up only with "regular keys" cut at a local key smith to match the blade part of the original remote.
The new remote which was ordered from Germany, does not lock/unlock the truck but it DOES turn the engine on in the same way the original remote does (the engine runs and keeps on running).
I will make an attempt with the local MB dealer to find out if they'll do the "learning" procedure for me. They seem to frown on servicing anything which was not imported by them. It is also a great relief to hear from you about the number being 24 key copies not 8!
This brings up an important point, what does one have to do to get a copy to replace a key that is already in the memory of the vehicles computer (as opposed to one from the pool of the original 8)? Wouldn't this negate the need for the relearning process?
Thank you for your help.
Last edited by kayooh; 03-20-2005 at 08:59 AM.
03-23-2005, 08:39 AM
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Sorry it's taken so long to get back.
OK, on the key where just the metal part was replaced, more than likely the electronics in the key are bad. These parts are called transponders, they need no battery, the batteries in the key are only for the locking/unlocking features. Unless the key cutting guy simply made you a metal key with a head, this will only unlock the truck door and it will of course turn in the ignition switch, there is no way it can start the engine though, no trnasponder for the DAS (Driver Authorization System). The key cutter should have this knowledge by now and should have told you, as most if nnot all manufacturers these days have some sort of antitheft system which prevents a simple key cut at the corner hardware store.
On ordering keys, if you want an "additional" key,lets say you have 3 original keys (newer trucks are delivered with only 2), and you want ANOTHER key, the dealer would state in the order type "additional". MB would then send the next available key for this particular truck, whatever is next in line in the Master Computer in Germany for this vehicle, they keep the status for all the vehicles in that computer (just the coding info, not the physical keys). The info in the computer has all the codes that are stored in your vehicles DAS computer. In your case for all 24 keys, on a 98-99, just 8, as the key coding info was just stored in the AAM, it didn't have the capacity for 24 keys. In 2000 they introduced AAM2, which has a slide-in DAS module(actually called DAM) so it has the same capacity as the smartkey cars for 24 keys. If there is a problem like you or the previous owner has already ordered up to the original 8 keys, the ordering dealer would be notified of the problem.
OK, now a scenario where you might want NOT an additional key but a REPLACEMENT key. What if you lose a key and have no idea where it went? Kind of an uncomfortable feeling, someone might try to steal the truck. You order a replacement key, and when this key is used, it blanks out all the codes for the missing key. The trick is to identify the missing key. You need to take the truck and all the keys you do have to the dealer. They can hook up there SDS machine and a program in SDS will tell the number of each key that is plugged in to the ignition. So actually it's pretty easy, the computer can also tell which keys have been used in the truck. So if it says keys 1,2,3, and 4 are "in use", means there are 4 keys that have actually been used. You plug each key into the ignition, and you see you have keys 1, 3, and 4, #2 is the missing key. The dealer, when ordering a key, would put in the "order type" "Replacement Key #2" instead of additional. This is important because I have heard if this area is left blank that MB will send an additional key(the next available), not a replacement. Later on down the road, if that "replacement" key also need to be replaced, MB can do that one more time. That's it for that key number, you have for example the original key #1, then the "first replacement" and a "second replacement", 3 total. You also can't skip around when ordering keys, it goes in order, you can't walk in and ask for them to order the "original key #8". If you order an additional key, the Master Computer sends the next available. OTOH you can't order a replacement key without specifying which key number you need to replace.
I know it's a bit confusing, let me kow if you have other questions. I still can't believe MB sent you a key direct from Germany, I was sure you'd need to hassle with a US dealer to get one. Did you go through a German dealer???
That key the guy cut for you would be good if you locked the keys in the truck somehow, that's about it, and the alarm will go off when you do it, as you probably realize.
Gilly
OK, on the key where just the metal part was replaced, more than likely the electronics in the key are bad. These parts are called transponders, they need no battery, the batteries in the key are only for the locking/unlocking features. Unless the key cutting guy simply made you a metal key with a head, this will only unlock the truck door and it will of course turn in the ignition switch, there is no way it can start the engine though, no trnasponder for the DAS (Driver Authorization System). The key cutter should have this knowledge by now and should have told you, as most if nnot all manufacturers these days have some sort of antitheft system which prevents a simple key cut at the corner hardware store.
On ordering keys, if you want an "additional" key,lets say you have 3 original keys (newer trucks are delivered with only 2), and you want ANOTHER key, the dealer would state in the order type "additional". MB would then send the next available key for this particular truck, whatever is next in line in the Master Computer in Germany for this vehicle, they keep the status for all the vehicles in that computer (just the coding info, not the physical keys). The info in the computer has all the codes that are stored in your vehicles DAS computer. In your case for all 24 keys, on a 98-99, just 8, as the key coding info was just stored in the AAM, it didn't have the capacity for 24 keys. In 2000 they introduced AAM2, which has a slide-in DAS module(actually called DAM) so it has the same capacity as the smartkey cars for 24 keys. If there is a problem like you or the previous owner has already ordered up to the original 8 keys, the ordering dealer would be notified of the problem.
OK, now a scenario where you might want NOT an additional key but a REPLACEMENT key. What if you lose a key and have no idea where it went? Kind of an uncomfortable feeling, someone might try to steal the truck. You order a replacement key, and when this key is used, it blanks out all the codes for the missing key. The trick is to identify the missing key. You need to take the truck and all the keys you do have to the dealer. They can hook up there SDS machine and a program in SDS will tell the number of each key that is plugged in to the ignition. So actually it's pretty easy, the computer can also tell which keys have been used in the truck. So if it says keys 1,2,3, and 4 are "in use", means there are 4 keys that have actually been used. You plug each key into the ignition, and you see you have keys 1, 3, and 4, #2 is the missing key. The dealer, when ordering a key, would put in the "order type" "Replacement Key #2" instead of additional. This is important because I have heard if this area is left blank that MB will send an additional key(the next available), not a replacement. Later on down the road, if that "replacement" key also need to be replaced, MB can do that one more time. That's it for that key number, you have for example the original key #1, then the "first replacement" and a "second replacement", 3 total. You also can't skip around when ordering keys, it goes in order, you can't walk in and ask for them to order the "original key #8". If you order an additional key, the Master Computer sends the next available. OTOH you can't order a replacement key without specifying which key number you need to replace.
I know it's a bit confusing, let me kow if you have other questions. I still can't believe MB sent you a key direct from Germany, I was sure you'd need to hassle with a US dealer to get one. Did you go through a German dealer???
That key the guy cut for you would be good if you locked the keys in the truck somehow, that's about it, and the alarm will go off when you do it, as you probably realize.
Gilly
