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Been following the threads for a while now gathering info on some style/tuning tips for our model. Big shout goes to these users on here: Chris The Swede, Yister, BrabusMan to name a few that inspired me to spend my money in the right places lol.
My ML came with the standard suspension so that was the first project I wanted to take. Needed to close the gap on those pogo-stick shocks and oem springs.
I decided to pull the trigger on the following to meet those goals:
H&R Springs
Bilstein HD Shocks
Next up I wanted to switch out the stock 19in 5 spokes with one of my all time favorite aftermarket wheels:
OZ Racing - Superturismo Dakar - 20x10
Sumitomo All Season Tires 275/45R20
9/10/14 - She's at the shop getting speed balanced right now. I'll post the before and after pics with everything on this weekend.
9/14/14 - Took advantage of the great weather today.
A big thanks to Phil @DetailersDomain for getting my Sonax starter kit and Wheel Whoolies shipped out promptly. Package was waiting at my doorstep Saturday morning, but due to the weather I would have to patiently wait till today to get her that bath and tryout these new products. Sonax wheel cleaner is amazing so I wanted to try some of the other products Sonax had to offer. The pic below shows Sonax wheel cleaner doing work. Sprays on green and turns red showing the brake dust has broken down and is ready for the wheel woolies to to come in and start scrubing. I finished her off with Sonax Quick Wax to show that nice Merc black again. Overall I was very happy with the results and will continue to be a Sonax fan.
Finally, after the quick wash and detail I was able to take my final After shot of the drop with the springs and shocks. Hope you enjoy and sorry for the iphone pics, but It's all I got. No filter was used but hopefully you can see the difference. Please excuse the tires. I completely forgot to order tire shine by the way.
9/16/14 - Okay everyone - Here are my current wheel alignment specs I'm working with.
Last edited by DarkMeat; 09-16-2014 at 10:40 AM.
Reason: added more pics to my project log
Im going for the same setup with h&r and bilstein hd shocks, let me know how the ride has changed. Post some pics please! Im still waiting for my bilstein shocks.
Im going for the same setup with h&r and bilstein hd shocks, let me know how the ride has changed. Post some pics please! Im still waiting for my bilstein shocks.
I just picked her back up this morning from the shop to get the wheels balanced.
I have the before shot already. Just need to take the after shot lol. Going to give her a nice bath tomorrow so I'll have the updated pics this weekend.
Initial impressions driving her back home this morning on my city streets was totally fine. Don't get me wrong, the ride is very firm. Coming from an Evo 8 and 09 STI I know what firm suspension feels like
I drove over a few manholes on purpose, just to see how much firmer. Very noticeable but nothing I found to crazy. Open cracks/uneven pavement I normally wouldn't notice on the standard suspension felt a little extra vibration but not jarring or annoying where I would need to swerve to avoid.
Overall, my setup fits my style just fine. I really just wanted a more sport enhanced look from my ML without feeling like I need to snail around exit/entrance ramps.. If you're looking for a low setup but still comfy, this is not the setup for you. I would just put the springs on the oem shocks or don't lower her at all. I do not take my cars off-roading so I don't care about that.
I'll chime back in on my thread and see how the setup feels on the long-term though. Initial impressions - no surprises here.
Thanks for the update! I used to drive a lowered prelude for 7-8 yrs so I can relate to the firm and stiff feeling when going over rough roads. My question is, does it get rid of that boat feeling? Does it handle much better and not rocking side to side when going over bumps? I would love to see the end results.
I just picked her back up this morning from the shop to get the wheels balanced.
I have the before shot already. Just need to take the after shot lol. Going to give her a nice bath tomorrow so I'll have the updated pics this weekend.
Initial impressions driving her back home this morning on my city streets was totally fine. Don't get me wrong, the ride is very firm. Coming from an Evo 8 and 09 STI I know what firm suspension feels like
I drove over a few manholes on purpose, just to see how much firmer. Very noticeable but nothing I found to crazy. Open cracks/uneven pavement I normally wouldn't notice on the standard suspension felt a little extra vibration but not jarring or annoying where I would need to swerve to avoid.
Overall, my setup fits my style just fine. I really just wanted a more sport enhanced look from my ML without feeling like I need to snail around exit/entrance ramps.. If you're looking for a low setup but still comfy, this is not the setup for you. I would just put the springs on the oem shocks or don't lower her at all. I do not take my cars off-roading so I don't care about that.
I'll chime back in on my thread and see how the setup feels on the long-term though. Initial impressions - no surprises here.
Hi Darkmeat,
Got any pics yet. Just wondering how the new suspension setup is going.
Welcome to a whole different sub category of application.
I have an 06 ML500 I lowered, only with Air ride that functions very differently than coils lowered. But that's not why I'm here. I've already lowered our 164 and have some advice
A lowered/lowering setup brings into play a lot of parameters that need to be addressed to feel suitable for daily driving situations.
Unfortunately the suspension with Coil springs is less forgiving when lowered when compared to the Air ride system.
Depending on the total amount of drop you can also wind up with another issue few have discussed. Camber. Rears tend get high negative camber which prematurely wears out tires relating to 1/3 the already short tire life on a high dollar 20" tire.
The alternative to your situation would be a double coil, spring setup. The short spring acts as short preloaded dampener taking up most of the road related fast short travel cycling then when tasked to dampen the entire suspension it uses the large coil
Last edited by Hary Gahtoe; 09-14-2014 at 07:16 AM.
Welcome to a whole different sub category of application.
I have an 06 ML500 I lowered, only with Air ride that functions very differently than coils lowered. But that's not why I'm here. I've already lowered our 164 and have some advice
A lowered/lowering setup brings into play a lot of parameters that need to be addressed to feel suitable for daily driving situations.
Unfortunately the suspension with Coil springs is less forgiving when lowered when compared to the Air ride system.
Depending on the total amount of drop you can also wind up with another issue few have discussed. Camber. Rears tend get high negative camber which prematurely wears out tires relating to 1/3 the already short tire life on a high dollar 20" tire.
The alternative to your situation would be a double coil, spring setup. The short spring acts as short preloaded dampener taking up most of the road related fast short travel cycling then when tasked to dampen the entire suspension it uses the large coil
Hi Hary,
How would you apply the double coil setup, will I need to purchase another set of springs? If so, which ones will I need? I already have the H&R springs which lower it 1.9 Front and 1.5 Rear. I appreciate your input!
I seen in another forum where you said you had built a camber bar for the rear to correct the negative camber. Do you happen to manufacture these? If so I would be interested in purchasinf if it will help relieve the negative camber.
Depending on the total amount of drop you can also wind up with another issue few have discussed. Camber. Rears tend get high negative camber which prematurely wears out tires relating to 1/3 the already short tire life on a high dollar 20" tire.
For all SUV's we manufacture Front Camber and Caster and Rear Camber and Toe adjuster kits.
Since the mid 1990’s dealers and alignment shops “full 4 wheel alignment” is now only front and rear Toe adjustment!
Many owners becoming increasingly frustrated, constantly changing tire brands or going from one dealer or alignment shop to another, not realizing that the reassuring “full alignment” – the reality is above Toe only adjustment applies!
At K-MAC we saw the need therefore to reinstate the precise ongoing adjustment capability which was OEM to the 1990’s.
The unique K-MAC patented design kits are precise single wrench adjustment on car (accurately under load direct on alignment turntable).
Allowing to return vehicle to factory specs after altering height, fitting wide profile tires/rims, load carrying, curb knock damage or to change, fine tune specs on track days.
Resolving premature edge tire wear with the:
FRONT KIT Fixing steering pull, improving traction with the Caster facility allowing reduced dive/lift under brake and acceleration with more straight line directional control – less wander at high speeds REAR KIT Can adjust, fine tune to reduce premature inner edge tire wear, gain maximum traction. Also includes extra Toe adjustment to cater for the new Camber facility. Unlike the alternative “Adjustable Camber Arms” – advantage with K-MAC rear kits is that they do not move top of tire outwards (this reducing all important clearance to outer fender) when adjusting to fix premature inner edge wear.
No special tools are required to fit. The front and rear bushes also replace the highest wearing bushes at the same time and have twice the load bearing area of OEM. 2 axis movement is also maintained without the use of air voids allowing improved traction under braking and better steering response.
NOTE: W164, 166 front suspension the first bushes to fail are the lower control arm inner rear (and they are expensive to replace), K-MAC front kits include these in a uprated heavy duty design as part of the Camber and Caster kit.
Not a big fan of ^ Close to $1000 for bushings ?
You can fabricate the bushings for < $60 ea but most people just want to buy what they need so I get why a low cost Poly bushing from Australia is popular.
Not cost effective but popular
Truly the only way a W164 owner is going to achieve decent ride quality is going to be with a coilover setup. Best senario is a double compound spring but it all has to be built around a better shock.
Which, don't waste your time by using a Bilstein Sport shock. Ride is poor right out of the box and just gets worse thereafter.
Try Koni
KW suspensions
For all SUV's we manufacture Front Camber and Caster and Rear Camber and Toe adjuster kits.
At K-MAC we saw the need therefore to reinstate the precise ongoing adjustment capability which was OEM to the 1990’s.
The unique K-MAC patented design kits are precise single wrench adjustment on car (accurately under load direct on alignment turntable). Resolving premature edge tire wear with the: FRONT KIT Fixing steering pull, improving traction with the Caster facility allowing reduced dive/lift under brake and acceleration with more straight line directional control – less wander at high speeds REAR KIT Can adjust, fine tune to reduce premature inner edge tire wear, gain maximum traction. Also includes extra Toe adjustment to cater for the new Camber facility. Unlike the alternative “Adjustable Camber Arms” – advantage with K-MAC rear kits is that they do not move top of tire outwards (this reducing all important clearance to outer fender) when adjusting to fix premature inner edge wear.
No special tools are required to fit. The front and rear bushes also replace the highest wearing bushes at the same time and have twice the load bearing area of OEM. 2 axis movement is also maintained without the use of air voids allowing improved traction under braking and better steering response.
NOTE: W164, 166 front suspension the first bushes to fail are the lower control arm inner rear (and they are expensive to replace), K-MAC front kits include these in a uprated heavy duty design as part of the Camber and Caster kit.
Only negative side effect from this design is the inherent off center cam also dials in unwanted raising or lowering of the A arm mount point in sacrifice for camber correction
K-Mac - Thanks for providing the info for your F/R kits. Had no idea this was out there for me! You'll be hearing from me soon.
Hary - Thanks for your input/feedback with lowering our rides. Do you have any options or recommendations to provide like K-Mac? Please PM me if you have any other info to help me complete my current setup.
Robert - I have the alignment spec sheet from the shop. I can try and scan my sheet for all to see. Do not remember all the numbers.
For all SUV's we manufacture Front Camber and Caster and Rear Camber and Toe adjuster kits.
NOTE: W164, 166 front suspension the first bushes to fail are the lower control arm inner rear (and they are expensive to replace), K-MAC front kits include these in a uprated heavy duty design as part of the Camber and Caster kit.
Big Question ?
Nowhere in the attached Company literature do I see specific #'s pertaining to camber correction.
Would you please post a *# ? What is the highest degree number Kmac bushings specifically rear W164 will correct ?
Thanks
Big Question ?
Nowhere in the attached Company literature do I see specific #'s pertaining to camber correction.
Would you please post a *# ? What is the highest degree number Kmac bushings specifically rear W164 will correct ?
Thanks
W164, 166
OEM offset grooved bolts provide .3 of one degree (3mm/1/8") adjustment and only for the front suspension. Inaccurate one position bolts.
K-MAC bushes provide four times the adjustment range (2 degrees) and precisely adjustable. Single wrench accurately under load direct on alignment turntable.
Same adjustment with rear kit.
Added bonus with the front kit is that bushes, also the 2 highest wearing inner rear bushes which sold as a complete replaceable arm can be 3 times the cost of a K-MAC front adjuster kit.
2* of total offset?
Just to be clear, that's only 1* in each direction?
Plus the bolt eccentric.
Is that 0.3* in both directions meaning 0.15* ?
Totaling a maximum of 2* (plus .15/.3)that still might not be enough if your car is lower than 1.25"
Factory stock settings are - * to start with then add a drop and it's likely to exceed 2* or be close.
An adjustable camber arm is capable of higher than 3*
True a camber bar does increase the outside top tire edge but a bushings will lift/lower A arm mount point and suck the bottom edge in negating a performance look most people who lower a vehicle wish to create
Thanks for posting that specs sheet for your camber, what are your plans for correcting the negative camber in the rear, I will be in the same boat as you soon.
Thanks for posting that specs sheet for your camber, what are your plans for correcting the negative camber in the rear, I will be in the same boat as you soon.
Thanks,
Rob
Still doing some research for the negative camber. I'll post up when I figure out what to do.
9/16/14 - Okay everyone - Here are my current wheel alignment specs I'm working with.
That's pretty average as far spec for a slightly lowered ML.
-2.8* is not good on tire wear or traction. 0* is beyond factory, But if you tow or carry 4 people frequently you might consider it but as long as your -.5* to -.8* your good. Just try and be within .1* form side to side.
I have no idea of what the alignment tech did but you realize a stock W164 HAS (and I add SMALL) rear camber alignment. Only +/- .5* meaning he could've at least set the largest (right side) back to -2.3* if it wasn't already maxed out on the adjuster
I could make some more.
I made these over 2 yrs. ago and I need to check how much my cost is on parts now.
If costs haven't change I'll do some but I won't be making very many so I'm probably going to start at $130 inc. shipping.
Just to show you I build a good quality piece, check out what others are making and charging. Rod ends that are plain steel are OK but SS is stronger and will last longer than the car
I just checked eBay and this looks very similar but is going to rust a month or so later. I use Stainless Steel rod ends which never rust and the center piece is Anodized Aluminum.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-Rear-Camber-Kit-Adjustable-Arm-SL-Class-W107-R129-Made-In-USA-/291148954905?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c9d47d19&vxp=mtr
The Camber bars I made (make) are capable of as much camber beyond a 3" drop.
If your only using these on a sport spring (1"- 1 1/2") I"ll probably have to shorten these. I made mine to compensate for a 2-3" drop. The total of the camber bar was around 5*
09-10-2014, 04:54 PM
