TestnDoc

Ouch. I wasn't trying to be offensive to you K-A. A creator is obvious to me. Anyway, I was trying to get the thread back on track to BadA S63. I'll take one!

K-A

Well hey, to be fair, neither theory is more far fetched than the other.

No offense taken, and I mean no personal offense, whether any personal offense was taken. This is why I think the religious topic outside of the proper context should be publicly avoided by all parties. Too many variables, too many different "sides" which are all too personal to really have an appropriation to be "argued", etc. it just gets tiresome, especially on social media.

No harm, no foul. The fact that we're not going to war over it, already places us at a level of highness!

samaritrey

Looks like you guys sorted yourselves out try to keep it on the topic of this beautiful S63!!

JFK-CDG

.

JFK-CDG

Ugh. Could not imagine having to subject myself to that uncivilized, low-rent plastic interior. I would not do that to myself.

There are certain things I'm used to, and that downgrade would be too much of a shock to my sensibilities. Going from a Mulsanne to an S was already pushing it.

MDMercedesGuy

LMAO... what a load of horse manure.

https://mbworld.org/forums/off-topic...lth-again.html

Class is being understated in your wealth, bull**** is bragging about your supposed wealth.

WEBSRFR

As a potential Tesla Model S buyer, let me say that I am so pleased to hear that you will not be associated with a Tesla owner Thank you for not buying a Tesla.

Oh and by the way, your Mulsanne was reviewed by Top Gear and it seems to be the ideal transportation for someone like you.

hyperion667

JFK-CDG

How can you bare sitting in a Tesla? The interior screams poverty. Price wise and ambiance wise, the Tesla has more in common with the C and E-Class than it does with the S-Class.

That rotten interior of the Tesla is what I imagine a Honda Accord would feel like, should I ever have the misfortune of ever finding myself sitting behind the wheel of a Honda.

Cheers to you for having the tolerance to "slum" it while driving or being a passenger in vehicle, but that life is not for me. Personally, I prefer to be in a civilized cabin when traveling by road and that means I should be immersed in luxury and glamor at all times.

Jason B

I'd like to see pics of the Mulsanne. Why did you get rid of it? Always at the dealer?

MDMercedesGuy

This thread has gone full circle in hilarity.

I think a lot of us here would. EXIF data would be excellent as well.

K-A

Now this is definite satire.

WEBSRFR

Yup. Didn't care to respond to that drivel with a response.

By the way K-A, have you driven the P85 or did you say you had driven a regular 85 or 60? I wonder how the acceleration dynamics of the P85 compares to the S63. Specifically the transmission and shifting. The S63 is 3/10 seconds faster to 60 than the P85 and I wonder how smooth the torque curve is. What sold me on the P85 was how utterly smooth, linear and instantaneous the massive delivery of torque was.

Has anyone here driven an S63? I'd love to drive an S63 sometime to see what they've done. I bet it is a spectacular car as it is basically all of Mercedes' internal combustion technology and know-how rolled into one package.

K-A

Yeah, I drove the 60w. I'd say the 60w is about equal in performance to my 535i. I.e low 5 second 0-60.

The P85 I haven't driven, but hear from people who have some of the fastest production cars that it's an utter beast with a torque curve that's basically unmatched by a gas motor. I wouldn't be surprised if the S63 is faster spec-wise, but I also wouldn't be surprised if the P85 is more real-world powerful. Plus, the P85, being a Model S, is still an inherently much sportier car than the S Class. I can't imagine the AMG S changing the inherently luxury-focused character (not to mention massive size) to be more dynamic than a Model S with all the performance goodies.

WEBSRFR

Take a P85 for a test drive. My girlfriend isn't really a car person and she still talks about how smooth the acceleration was because you can access all that torque in a very linear way without the abruptness of a gear shift.

I have driven the previous generation AMG S class and the E63 on a closed course at an event sponsored by Mercedes. To tell you the truth, I was more impressed with the E63 AMG than the S class AMG. The S class is more luxury focused and it was quick but the E63 was just unbelievable and more fun to drive hard. It felt more like a jetpack than a car. I now really want to see what they've done with this new S63.

I feel in a real world setting a P85 can hold its own with a S63 to 60 mph and perhaps 80-100 mph but then the S63 will pull ahead with its higher max speed. In day to day driving on streets though both cars are likely going to be more or less evenly matched up to a certain speed level.

Does anyone know if Autocar has a review coming up of the S63 or perhaps a S63/P85 match up? They did a segment of an Austin Martin Rapide S against a P85 and the Austin Martin has about the same HP as the S63 (550 HP vs. 577). They let the Rapide S start accelerating from about 30 mph and then nailed the P85 and it just blew the Rapide S away.

Would the 4MATIC system of the S63 give an acceleration edge over a RWD vehicle like the Rapide S?

bzliteyear

fwiw, we've got LOTS of Teslas in our neighborhood...and most of the people how buy them are over extending themselves to buy it(even more than the guys who buy S-classes, if that's possible).

bottom line, despite the HUGE wait list, including for upcoming model x, if there's any kind of a market crash, delivery date will go from 1 yr+ to immediately as everyone cxl's their orders...and i will be buying it used for 30-50 cents on the dollar.
PL

TomS

Wait a minute...You mean to tell me there are guys buying S classes that are overextended? I'm shocked; shocked I say

WEBSRFR

I've looked into the financials of getting a Tesla and it is a bit more different than getting a Mercedes. With Mercedes, they essentially give you free financing for buying the car and there are many lease options and offers available. It is just recently Tesla offered a lease option and even that is only if you own a business. It has been my experience that most people who overextend themselves do so with leases by borrowing a car they could not afford to buy normally. If you have a business tax reason for leasing that is different.

In large part from what I see on the Tesla forums, people who buy a Tesla buy it outright or put a very significant down payment and then finance the rest. I'm not sure where you get this about Tesla buyers over extending themselves. They mostly pay for them outright or finance the amount they need on their own, which obviously requires good credit and income requirements. People who have gone through getting their own financing for buying a Tesla have actually had to deliver 2 years of tax returns to banks. Seems this makes it harder for someone to overextend themselves.

I usually buy cars outright and hold on to them for 6-8 years. Honestly based on my experience I don't have much confidence in the longevity of these vehicles with everything that could go wrong with a mechanical internal combustion engine. I bet dealers make more money between the years a car is 3-8 years than the profit they made selling the car (certainly the case with my current car!). Combined with the gasoline savings and savings in maintenance because there are far fewer moving parts the total cost of owning/maintaining a full electric vehicle is lower.

I don't think overextending oneself is limited to Mercedes, BMW, Tesla or any other premium brand. Someone could overextend themselves with any car they buy. Due to the fuel savings and less maintenance, all things being equal you'd be even more extended with an ICE car.

Where did you get this about a huge wait list? The wait list has been about 2 months or so for the last 8+ months. More or less the same wait list if you order a Mercedes from the factory.

If there is a market crash fiasco like last time, the wait times going down to get a car will be a moot point and the least of anyone's concerns compared to all the other issues that will come with it...

Buying used is always less and the 50 cents per dollar figure you gave is where Mercedes is when their vehicles are 3-4 years old and that's about where I expect Tesla to be as well. Whether it is an S class or Model S, you likely loose about $20K the first year and then about $15K each of the next 2 years in depreciation.

Jason B

Motorists who purchase battery-electric vehicles tend to be younger and more affluent than drivers of hybrid vehicles, and.....

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101602194

K-A

The market crash isn't going to happen. Tesla Model X will be a massive hit, unless Tesla screw it up themselves.

I think the biggest "bear case" to Tesla, which oddly out of all the hit-pieces and doomsday scenario's being obsessed about by their haters I see out there, I never see come up, is: What happens when the Model S become dated and tired? Fact is, it's a very well engineered car, so it'll hold its own for some time, in fact it's so ahead of other cars in so many revolutionary ways, that I don't see it happening anytime soon.... BUT, the car market is fickle, and M-B released the new S, BMW is about to release an extremely advanced 7 Series with extensive CF in the chassis (a first for a car of its kind), the next 5 Series' and E Classes are a couple of years away, Audi's next gen, etc.

Tesla will have the EV edge for a long time coming, so that could keep the car in demand itself. But all the other aspects can start to suffer via the competition as the next wave comes out.

What works against Tesla, is that not everyone buys their car for the incredible EV engineering. Many people buy it as a sort of exotic, or statement, something that they can park next to an S Class and know that more people will fawn over their Model S. Not to mention, something that sends a "I'm green" statement. Those will be the fickle market because already, you see Model S' everywhere, and especially being that they all look basically the same (i.e no version of an "M Sport Package" per-se, or a "Luxury Package, i.e no variety), the exotic appeal has started to fade and cars that usually gain traction by "wow factor" tend to date or get boring to look at quicker than understated/conservative designs.

So my question to them would be: Is the Model S going to be facelifted? I haven't heard anything about that. And more importantly: How long will this generation of the Model S be in production? Tesla doesn't follow the conventional model years, so it might be trickier to pinpoint when that'll happen.

Jason B

Tesla is gone when MB makes a full electric S class, E class C class, or Bmw 7, 5, 3 or Audi A8, etc. But, that's not going to happen for a long time.

K-A

I don't think so, as long as Tesla keeps going strong.

To the younger or "progressive" generations, Tesla is like Apple during their rise and Mercedes more akin to Microsoft.

The car market isn't nearly as quick-shifting as the technology market, so Mercedes has a huge leg up, but Tesla has the cool factor going for it, and if they can maintain it, those generations will front run Tesla.

In fact, BMW is currently Tesla's biggest threat, if you can even call them that. They probably have more cross-shoppers seeing as to how they cater to sportier-intending demographics, and mostly because BMW is already going live with exclusively-EV cars.

What some people here aren't getting, is that M-B KNOWS that they need Tesla, therefore they bought a big stake in Tesla. M-B didn't do that to help Tesla kick their asses in the future, they did it because they had a feeling Tesla is gonna kick the car markets *** in the future, and Mercedes therefore would need Tesla's help to stay relevant during the shift to EV.

The best thing M-B has going for it, in terms of future sustenance (considering EV's are the future, and they are) is that they're linked to Tesla. Not the other way around.

Quadcammer

You really have got to be kidding me.

If anything, the rest of the car is what you should worry about. with the tesla, you may have severe battery issues.

WEBSRFR

Are you kidding about me kidding?

The reason for the current S class residuals is the crazy high cost of maintaining and repairing all the mechanical and electrical components that can go wrong in these cars. All the major transmission and engine components that went wrong with my E550 are shared with the S class and they both would have been extremely expensive repairs.

I agree, I guess with the Tesla I will be taking my chances with the battery pack. The previous general Tesla battery packs that have been out since 2008 in the Roadster are still doing fine. There are people putting 75K-100K miles on the current generation Tesla battery packs with hardly any degradation. I guess I'm taking a chance on the somewhat unknown battery pack of the Model S over all the electrical and mechanical components of the S class that I have little faith in holding up over the 6-8 years I usually own a car.

Yes the Tesla battery pack will eventually be replaced but when you do that, unlike a mechanical internal combustion car, you practically have a brand new car with the same performance specs as a new car because there is hardly anything else to wear out. That's another aspect I find appealing with the EV technology.

Obviously the key to Tesla's success is building a durable battery pack and bringing the cost of the battery pack down. Hopefully with the Giga Factory they can do that and perhaps they will have extra capacity for a nice big battery pack for a future all electric AMG S class

Wolfman

I wouldn't say that this will take a very long time. As stated, MB is already manufacturing the B-Class and they also have a joint venture in China where they manufacture the Denza electric car with a decent 300km (186 mile) range.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11404217...ehicle-at-auto

Given the severe pollution in China, there may be a push towards electric there which could push up volume (just a speculation at this point)

None of this impacts the S-Class, A8 or 7series, but it definitely could come to the C-Class (or CLA since the platform is similar to the B), A3 or 4 and 3 Series.