UrBusted

I posted my reasons for not cross shopping between the two. I know the S63/65 are performance versions of the S Class but if you had the E63 S and a S65 which one are you going to take round the track, or which one would you use as a faster vehicle? I agree that people would cross shop between the S Class and the Model S. I'm not one of those people. If I bought the car as a daily driver, then sure I would have got a Model S but instead I wanted a car which provides a high level of luxuriousness for my family for the price, not a car which would make me lose my license in 4 seconds. They need to make either a Tesla with the S Class interior or a S Class with the Tesla drivetrain.

WEBSRFR

Well said and I agree with you completely. After the Tesla's all electric drivetrain there is no way I will ever go back to a internal combustion car with a mechanical transmission with all the vibration, transmission shifts, and noises -- never mind however subtle they might be.

I still don't think Mercedes fundamentally has a clue what is so appealing to people such as me buying a Model S. They keep building BS hybrids and it seems few want to buy them. When I bought my girlfriend an ML two months ago our salesperson at the Mercedes dealer lamented how they are having a hard time selling the hybrid S class and I told him it is because no one wants to buy a slower S class with a tiny battery that is neither a great gasoline car nor a great electric car. It is a hybrid mess of compromises with twice as more things to go wrong, as I read in the post on this same forum by someone who bought a hybrid S class.

I don't think Mercedes still gets it that the reason people who buy a tesla is not because it is green, or gets great mileage or whatever but it is because an all electric high performance drivetrain drives better than any gasoline engine with a mechanical transmission. We would still have bought the Model S even if gasoline was free because the Tesla drives so much better.

I hope one day Mercedes builds a long range and high performance S class and that they build it completely from the ground up as an EV so they can "package" the vehicle to take advantage of the type of vehicle architecture you can build. What Tesla has done placing the battery on the floor of the vehicle is brilliant for handling and this is only possible because the vehicle was built from the ground up to be that way.

An all electric S class would offer Mercedes luxury and Tesla's EV performance in one package. What's keeping them from building such a car? I doubt many will fall for their plugin hybrid nonsense but they seem intent on wanting to stick a gasoline engine in everything they build besides the B Class -- but the B class is too compromised by design to make it compelling for most people.

I still don't understand if Tesla can the build the Model S, why Mercedes can't build a similar but more luxurious vehicle.

UrBusted

Just had a model s fan say that the Tesla has more leg space and is more comfortable inside on the back seats than a s class. He also said that the Tesla is more luxurious than a rolls Royce ghost.

emilner

Cool story bro

WEBSRFR

And when did you wake up from your dream?

Seriously I know a lot of Tesla fans but no one is going to tell you that the Tesla is more luxurious than the S class and definitely no one is going to go further to say that the backseat is more luxurious than the S class. The Next Generation seat option for the Model S offers much more comfortable front seats in the Model S that hold you nicely and comfortably in place but the S class backseat is still better. I think we've all pretty much unanimously agreed on this.

MTrauman

WHAT?


And that person lives on the planet of Mars?

UrBusted

Here are his comments
"They prefer the futuristic modern luxury of the Tesla Class.
The awards have everything to do with Modern Luxury and 21st century fashion and style. Comfort is a state of elegance that Tesla offers with its more modern fresh design and cleaner wider spaces, and xen like qualities. The Tesla offers purer cleaner transport that doesn't go put,put,put, potato,potato,potato in the s class. The Tesla is more elegant 21st century space ship on rails than a burning gas guzzler from the titanic era with lots of soot."
"They said that you find the s class have traditional last century luxury of your archaic taste. Read the Thread they said they prefer a modern more refined car that's the Tesla and not your old way of thinking of old last century taste which they scoffed at. Thats your **** taste, but they all prefer a Tesla over a RR ghost as the Tesla offers more luxury and modern amenities that Tesla owners crave and have better, higher elegant taste in."
Most Tesla owners and fans are very nice people, and agree with stuff as well as I agree with them on some matters but then there is this guy.

PeterUbers

Benz CEO knows the future modern passenger cars is electric motors but I don't think he's losing sleep over worrying that musk will destroy his s class sales figures anytime soon

Not even sure what the direction of this thread is anymore but always interesting to see deal jockeys along their opinions at each other lol! Myself included

AppleFan1

Here is a rather pertinent article for this thread:


http://www.wsj.com/articles/ford-mer...8?mod=yahoo_hs

UrBusted

I feel like killing myself. I was showing him that the S Class has the better sound system, and a quote from WEBSRFR and this is what he says:
"Yes it does, the premium sound system has been upgraded as with many other parts that can be continually switched and improved with Tesla's R&D. And it has codecs that also improve it via OTA updates.
And it goes up to ELEVEN.

Did you read the threads on the rear executive seats, plus the many other threads praising the modern luxuries of the Tesla. And that wasn't a P85D owner at time of comment as he was talking about the older models. And he still prefers the modern luxury of the Tesla over any s class, along with many other Tesla owners. Meaning he prefers the new executive rear seats over the lesser s class. "
He says you can retrofit the Autopilot Systems when they are upgraded e.t.c. For those who wish to see the specs of the speaker systems :
S Class : 24 Speaker, 24 Channel, 1540 watt
Model S : 12 Speaker, 580 Watt

Jason B

I'm pretty sure if Mercedes did what you said, that car would be $300k. Nothing they do is rushed and they'd spend another 10 years trying to reinvent the wheel and by that time it'll be too late.

WEBSRFR

Yes, it will cost $300K if they waste money and make the project into a bureaucratic design by committee mess. But it doesn't have to be this way. Mercedes does not have to reinvent the wheel, especially because Tesla has open-sourced all their patents so any automaker is welcome to use EV technology that Tesla has developed.

Currently the Model S is the most profitable mass market car based on profit per unit because EVs are actually less expensive to make. Tesla is making a profit margin of something along the lines of 28% per car sold -- that is amazing for an industry that makes low single digit profit margins for the most part. The profit margin for Mercedes for last year was 8.3%.*

An EV has far fewer moving parts (no transmission, engine, exhaust system, transfer case, differential, emission control system, etc.,). It is actually a lot less expensive to build an EV, if you are intelligent about what you build in-house, and where you source your parts and batteries. Most traditional auto companies are using third parties to build their components and Tesla is building most of the key components in house.

I know what you mean by Mercedes taking forever to reinvent the wheel though. Even after all this time, they have yet to come out with a navigation system that is not clunky to use compared to what is available in the Model S.

---

Sources:

* "The fourth-quarter operating margin at Mercedes-Benz Cars, which includes the Smart minicar brand, rose to 8.3 percent of revenue from 7.5 percent in the same period last year. On a full-year basis the return on sales was 8 percent, up from 6.2 percent in 2013. Daimler eventually wants to reach a 10 percent margin from carmaking."

http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...rcedes-margins

Jason B

Agree. In the w221 forum there are a few guys that found out how to mirror their cell-phone nav to the front screen. Imagine having the Waze app on your screen. Can't wait to see how it works out.

WEBSRFR

That's the nice thing about all the car's software being able to be updated over the air. A recent update already enabled the Model S navigation and maps to use Google Traffic so integrating Waze, which is now owned by Google, should be possible with a software update for Tesla. Sergey Brin, of Google, drives a Model S so I'm sure he'd personally like to see Waze integration in his Model S. Maybe he already has that, given that he and Musk are friends

As a part of the Tesla autonomous driving package update they just activated a new feature that I love. It basically uses the cars sensors to determine if you are at risk of getting a parking ticket and if so the car goes into autonomous driving mode to evade the parking ticket. Here's a video of it in action:

Landers

Interesting that Tesla touts itself as this technologically advanced company compared to all other cars, yet based on what I have read on the Tesla Forums the cars lack these features.

Autolifting trunk
Folding mirrors
LED Headlights
coat hooks
Lighting in vanity mirrors
Cooled seats
Back seat climate zone
Adjustable seat belts
Speed sensitive volume for radio


Not to say there isn't some great technology, but many of these have been around for years in what the Tesla folk would consider way behind cars.

jenz

I really think you missed the joke here

WEBSRFR

It was shared as a belated April Fool's joke, but you might have missed the joke I shared as a missed joke

WEBSRFR

Actually being technologically advanced is the reason I bought the car. I am in software development and nothing out there comes close to the ability to enhance the car and add features via over the air software updates. I basically wake up to find Tesla has upgraded my car and made it better with new features. No Mercedes I've owned has ever gotten better over time or offered new features than what the car came with.

Just over the 2 months I have owned our Model S, it has substantively gotten better and this summer it will get further better when autopilot is enabled allowing the car to do the most of the driving on interstates when I wish it to do so. And when I get home, it will drop me off at my front door and park itself in the garage and close the garage door. Such feature additions are not possible with Mercedes or other traditional car company as they charge you hundreds just to get the marginally better maps and they never add features to cars already sold unlike Tesla. Moving forward Mercedes will need to also be able to offer software updates to improve features in the car to be competitive as that's where the industry is going. Would you not want the software features available in the 2016 S class available in your 2014 S class?

As for the features "missing" in the Model S your research is a bit dated The Model S has been available with the Autolifting trunk for a while and the same with Folding mirrors. I have LED lights in my car and there is a coat hook attachment available for vehicles with the panorama roof, which I have.

It is still missing a few features but really nothing I miss compared to what the Tesla offers. I am glad they got the rest of the car so absolutely great before they tinker with airing out my bottom as I drive with ventilated seats I am sure that is coming as well at some point.

We still have a Mercedes with the ventilated seats and it is better than not having it but I consider the benefit to be a bit on the subtle than useful side.
To a large extent I don't really need the ventilated seat feature in the Tesla as much because the Tesla App on my phone is so easy to use. I remotely start the climate control 10 minutes before I get in my car and it is just the right temperature when I get in.

jenz

Touché I could not tell if that was a deadpan delivery on your part or not

drsaab

Autolifting trunk - present
Folding mirrors - present
LED Headlights - has xenon with led accents
coat hooks - accessory available.
Lighting in vanity mirrors - present
Cooled seats - nope but does have pre coooling for cabin from app.
Back seat climate zone - does have rear heated seats with cold weather pkg
Adjustable seat belts - nope
Speed sensitive volume for radio - car is always quiet, not really needed.

Landers

Thank you for both posting and that is good to hear that some of those things are there. I was shocked to read some of those so it makes a lot more sense that those are present. Elon has done a great job and he seems to be an attention to detail guy.

I know I sound Anti Tesla, but I am not. I should be in the market in about 2-3 years and make no mistake Tesla will be on the short list.

Thanks again both of you for correcting me.

One other question.

MB does seat belts better than any other car company I have seen. When the seat belts are on they are not too tight. They actually don't squeeze you too much. Every other car company I constantly have to pull them out to loosen them or hold them if I am driving on a long trip. How are Tesla's? Are they as loose as the MB? DO you wish they were slightly looser?

AppleFan1

Here is a very interesting article talking about inexpensive electric cars are coming a lot sooner than most realize. The thing the struck me the most about this article is when it states that the lithium ion batteries are a lot less expensive to manufacture than we are lead to believe. In other words, present companies that make electric cars are charging a hell of a lot more for these batteries than they should.

http://www.technologyreview.com/news...han-you-think/

K-A

Has Tesla implemented a Brake Hold feature yet? When I drove one last year, I was pretty shocked that it didn't have one, seeing as to how it's a simple luxury that would work essentially well with an EV even more than an ICE car.

wanderfalke

The front seats and the seating position are the worst aspect of the tesla. I do like the idea of the car. Maybe the newer( bmw-like) sedan will have a more upright seating position.

drsaab

I have had no issues, many components are direct from MB suppliers, even look exactly the same, the seat belt may be one of them.

they have a hill hold assist but it is only like 3-4 sec between letting go of brakes and pressing the accelerator. The brake hold I achieve with driving on auto - cruise / autopilot 90% of the time. They just updated the traffic cruise last week. It is way smoother than before and the auto resume from a stop was 3 sec and is now 30 sec . Car is always improving.

They have changed the seats 2-3 times from 2012. The new base leather seats have more padding and are more comfy to me than my w212 because the w212 used to push on my thigh for long trips. Its a common complaint in the w212 thread. The new next gen tesla seats are from recaro (per someones window sticker) and are very bmw sport seat like.