cjf_moraga

I am approaching 8-years in my w221 S600 and am now out of warranty. I am starting to think about changing to a w222. Despite a few issues over the years, I have generally been very happy with the w221 S600 which has served me and my family well. The question is what to replace it with? Last week I test drove both a w222 S600 and a w222 S63 back to back. My impressions:

(1) The S63 has amazing acceleration. Kind of reminds me of that kick in the back of the neck I got from my old supercharged E55. It definitely feels a bit harder/rougher in ride however, through the freeways in the Bay Area are hardly the smoothest. I suspect I will notice a slight lack of engine refinement compared to the S600, though that is all relative of course, it is still an S-Class. What a car though and I just love the Heads Up Display!

(2) The S600 again reminded me of how quiet and refined it is, quite perceptible after driving the S63 though I am disappointed that the V12 engine is still the same with just a few extra HP. The standard S600 also seems to occupy an odd place below the S600-Maybach which is only $17K or so more. Unlike the w221 S600 which was just as fast and powerful as the equivalent NA S63 when they were new, the standard w222 S600 seems in an odd place and does not seem as exceptional in relative terms. Seems if you can afford a standard S600 the S600-Maybach is just an additional option package, I am not convinced about the S600-Maybach however which does not feel quite me. It is longer and a bit slower, and am not sure I want the driveway statement.

I am inclining to a fully optioned S63 which has been quoted me at $173,900 + $925 delivery. That is MSRP however. What kind of discount should I expect on a new high-end S-Class these days? (The dealer has also offered me a trade-in on my 65,000 mile w221 S600 in the $28K range)

Interested in the perceptions and experience of anyone who has considered either of these vehicles.

Chris

thomas311

I pulled the trigger on a S600 last Summer which got delivered in September 2014. Personally I didn't consider the S63 nor the S65 for the simple reason, that I had a Porsche Turbo back then which I replaced with an SL550. So for me it was clear that I didn't need another sports car. Also I was intrigued (and still am) to own a 12 cylinder. So I went with the S600 which I didn't regret so far.
When I was in the market there was no 2015 S600 in my area on any dealer lot, so it had to be a custom order, which makes dealers not very generous regarding discounts, but I walked in, told the dealer what I want and what I want to pay and I'm willing to sign right away. 10 minutes later (after the infamous 'got to talk to my manager' statement) we had a deal. I got round about 5% off, which was not too bad back then.

Trade-in value of your S600 doesn't seem too bad (even though it hurts, i know). I sold totally independent from my new purchase a 2007 S600 with same mileage for 30K, and it was a pretty hard to sell car.[/B]

I hope that helps a bit for your mind making process.
Cheers
Thomas

cjf_moraga

Thanks! I am about to start the process of negotiating a fully loaded S63 quoted at $173,900 MSRP. Is 5% discount what purchasers are getting these days? (Edmunds seems to be in that region)

According to the dealer, delivery is likely 5 months away so timing may be a factor. If there is a risk of pushing into MY16 it may make sense to wait? (I have not done this for 8-years and am a bit rusty)

(Confession: I was originally thinking of the Tesla P85D which is very attractive on paper, but after having sat in one I am having problems with the interior. In fact the Mercedes switch gear would keep reminding me of what I would not be getting)

Chris

Red Marko

If acceleration and torque is your theme do yourself a favor and test drive Audi S8. It will change your mind completely as beating the crap out of both (600 and 63AMG).

Wolfman

How so?
The S8 is fast without a doubt but both the Audi and the S63 have the same acceleration (3.9 to 60). I give the edge in real life to the Audi from a stop but not at higher speeds.

You must be joking about the torque though. Our SL550 has more torque than the S8, let alone a 63/600.

The Audi is a very fast, boring car IMO.

Streamliner

Think about this HARD! Do yo really want a firm ride and that loud exhaust note in your daily driver, family sedan? After you smash the record on your favorite freeway on ramp a few times (as long as there isn't an S65 around) then what? S63 says "look how fast I am, but I can't afford an S65." An S600 says "I don't need to prove anything to anyone, I just want the best." Go for the S600 and enjoy being a wealthy adult.

Wolfman

Personally I think you will be happier with the S600 for bay area driving than S63. Both are fast capable cars; the S63 MCT transmission is known to be rougher shifting especially in city traffic as compared to the smooth but somewhat lazy transmission in the V12. Both cars' values will depreciate rapidly, so it comes down less to the tech/value pros/cons but how the driving feels for you.
If I were you, I would have the dealer give me a S63 for a day so you can try it out more extensively.

Red Marko

Have you driven S8? Don't believe the numbers Audi is publishing. I'm a huge torque junkie, I drove '08 CL600 for 5 years and '13 CL63 AMG for a year, now I'm driving S8 for over a year, so I really can compare all three.
I stand by my statement.

APR did some real dynos on S8 before and after their tune (if one decides to spend $2k - highly recommended, btw). Take a look:




In the looks dept, you are right, Audi has more of a "business" feel and it could appear boring on the outside to some. I think they are working on it.

Red Marko

But, not to hijack the thread...


Don't do S63!
You won't be happy within 1st month of driving it. The transmission by itself is atrocious. Ask other members who had an experience with AMG (S, Coupe, SL, CL), they will confirm.

I agree with Streamliner and Wolfman. S600 is the only choice here. In my opinion of course

cjf_moraga

Thanks for the input so far! When I drove both cars back to back, the S63 definitely felt "rougher" (both engine/transmission and suspension) than the the S600 which was super refined, and the thought of whether that aspect of its character would start grating on me has been nagging in the back of my mind. I was not aware that others have complaints about the AMG transmissions. Hitting the on-ramp in the S63 was quite a ride, but its not as if the S600 is that slow either. The w222 S600 engine/transmission actually felt even smoother than my current w221 S600, but perhaps that is as much to do with my current cars age and 5-speed compared with 7-speed.

I can see that it is my disappointment that MB did not up the ante with a newer or more powerful V12 engine in this model cycle that is a large factor in my thinking. Adding just 15hp and half a liter of displacement is nothing for MB's flagship. I think it is the emotional factor that I would be only getting a new interior and updated gizmos rather than a new generation of engine and driveline technology for a c. $170K expenditure. As Wolfman suggests, asking the dealer to spend more time with a S63 is prudent before making any decisions.

Much appreciate the feedback!

Chris

clkcadet

S600 IMHO- It is much more refined for daily use.

Just add the AMG package for a sporty look.

xxGenericSNxx

@cjf S63 full option is more like $197k. A $173k S63 is simply "mediumly equipped."
@clkcadet Sport package isn't available for the S600 in the USA (from the factory).
@streamliner S63 is faster than S65 off the line.

cjf_moraga

Really, how? On the mbusa site I can get the price up to about $186K and thats including 20" wheels, a designo package, and such dubious add ons as the Carbon Fibre trim package. How do you get the price up as high as $197K?

I would not call a $174K S63 mediumly equipped.

Chris

V12TTenthusiast

I usually like having at least 1 sedan AWD car in my line up. I wish there was a S600 4Matic, but I assume MB didn't figure out how to have the drive train handle the M275/278 tq or I'd be all over that. I'm not sure there is a S63 sedan that has the AWD option. That S63 coupe looks amazing, I have 2 friends that have edition ones, but I really want 4 doors. That new S600 Maybach looks amazing too but that's a car to be a passenger in, not to drive.

If AWD didn't matter I'd take the S600 over the S63 since the engine and transmission is more suited for daily driving, but if there was a S63 S Sedan I'd take that over the S600 only cause of the AWD option. But again idk if there's an S63 S Sedan or not.

Wolfman

The V12 is an ancient engine by tech standards, but so are some of the finest and most expensive watches in the world.
Very small production volume typically slows development cycles even for a company with very deep pockets. V12's are also viewed as environmentally out of touch (primarily in Europe).

In regards of not having more power yet, the S600 actually already has too much of it and more isn't better. AWD would be the answer but the engine is simply too large to make that happen.

cjf_moraga

Yes the S63 sedan's in the USA are all AWD and there is no other choice. The rear wheel drive S63 is only sold in Europe I think. Appreciate AWD is important in parts of the world that are not California!

Chris

Wolfman

I don't diminish the power of the S8, especially as it pulls so much out of the relatively small engine. It does have pretty low torque compared to MB TT V8/V12 engines though. Very fast ride; big bang for the buck; found the driving a bit artificial maybe.

That said, I have only test driven the S8 but have about 5000 miles in several 2013-15 A8 models, both in Germany and the US (all well equipped rental cars). At lot of seat time at 150mph+ in their Turbo Diesels which are both strong and efficient.

All manufacturers do underrate their engines these days and by a good amount (similar to your list) and the S63 AWD was tested faster than listed as well - 3.6/3.7 to 60.

The S63 is now also being tuned to 1000hp which is extreme and questionable but 800hp versions are easily achieved.
The key to tuning is the ability for the transmission to survive all the extra power.

5634MG

S600 for sure.

I mentioned before how isn't that great to drive around the city. This car was meant to be a temporary car before being replace by the W222 when the lease ends. The dealer offered a great deal (over 20% off) since this was a lot car. They do not keep any V12 models in stock here in Vancouver so any 600 or 65 model must be specially ordered. The most they were willing to offer for specially ordered vehicles was a 5000 courtesy discount. In my opinion, given that this was meant to be a transition vehicle until the W222 was released, the discount and the younger side of me made me pick the AMG.

However, my dealer did warn that the V12 models aren't reliable, saying that they came into the shop for repairs every couple of months (not sure if this is true or not).

My next S-Class will not be an AMG model; if I wanted a sporty vehicle, I would separately get a sports car.

sam9187

S63 can't be fully loaded at ~ $174. Mine was around ~ $180 and was still missing one or two options.

sam9187

I can't disagree more. I have a GL63, S63 sedan and S63 coupe and I have never experienced transmission issue people talk about. I initially though maybe because I don't drive in S mode but have for past few months and again no problems. I do baby them for past 1000 miles and not sure if that's the reason I don't have transmission issues.

sam9187

+1

Mitch Alsup

Basically, if you want smooth quiet refined power S600
However, it you want lumpy noisy more power S63.

For me, S600. It also cuts the options bafflement way down.

canes85

Test drove both last week here in ATL at ACC. Obviously both were very vice but I preferred the S600. I like the smoothness of V12 plus the interior was so much nicer!!!! I would rarely/never push either cars to there limits and the interior of S600 really sets itself apart from the S63AMG.

sam9187

Interior depends on packages. I have all available packages on my 63 and it resembles that of a 600.

fkim011

Personally, I would take the S63. I like the AWD, the aggressive exhaust tone, the more aggressive look and the V8 it comes with.

In terms of discount, January had a $5,000 trunk money incentive to move cars. The trunk money has been extended to February but the actual figure is down to $4,000. My 2015 S550 I purchased 3 days ago had a MSRP of 114,XXX and I got it down to 101,XXX. My salesman said the same figures apply to any S class I wanted whether that be the 550, S63, S65...etc