PeterUbers

Holy sh-t!!

PeterUbers

LOTS of cars over $15,000 have rattles and many cars that I've had under $15,000 had no or few rattles

i didn't realize the range issues were so bad on the tesla

At least the teslas execution was leagues ahead of the fisker!!

WEBSRFR

You actually make a good point there. Musk's long-term interest is not in cars but in space, his other "part time" job. At some point he will likely still oversee Tesla but handover control of the company to someone else so he can focus more on SpaceX.

I listened to the Tesla Earnings Call for the previous quarter and by the time they are done with their mission, I doubt any of their competitors will be able to buy out Tesla. Their mission for the next 5 years is to not just scale up to 500,000 cars, a number they can achieve with their existing plant but they intend to scale beyond that.

For all the naysayers who say this is impossible, another American car manufacturer already accomplished such a ramp up albeit with technology from the early 1900s and that was Henry Ford with the Model T. Interestingly Tesla's growth curve so far actually follows the growth curve for Ford's Motel T:

This is a fascinating article on what American innovation and entrepreneurship makes possible weather it is 1909 or 2009.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-in-five-years

WEBSRFR

The Tesla range issues are bad mostly for those who don't own one. The Model S is our primary car and we've taken many trips in our Tesla and have yet to have issues with range.

Most of the east coat is covered and in anticipation of the Model 3 there will be a massive increase of the Supercharger network. Currently there are about 3,600 superchargers across North America and this number is set to grow to over 7,000 within a year. Plus battery capacities are increasing and even before the P100D comes out the 90D already offers around 300 miles of range.

You are totally right about the Fisker though. If anyone has not watched the following gem of a video, trust me it is worth it. Watch it and you will see by comparison how Tesla's execution really is leagues ahead.

fathom6

Websrfr, you are taking it wrong buddy and missing something VERY important. I earnestly believe that YOU and many Tesla owners are happy. I also believe that you do not mind the rattles, the cheap plastic built, the doors, I understand that you might even love the dump of Elon Musk but you are missing the point ... you like this all, because that is who you are ... repressed fringe liberal loonies ... who finally got an EV car out ... and you all are ecstatic ...that you will pay anything to buy the long awaited holy grail - EV. All your talking points come from where? EVObsession.com I love the website EV Obsession.com, I think the name speaks of it well

Further, you and my neighbor (a good friend, but another bleeding heart liberal on the left like you, always worried about sinking ship call Tesla, always passing the Tesla sales love to others). He tells me with great love how crappy his Model S is (low quality built) but he still sings songs of how he still loves it all ... just because he is saving the planet. Now thats all okay, I am good with that, I respect it, but as long you dont start proselytizing that sh$t onto me.

Also to confess, I have also owned Tesla, but in my case I could not put up with the CRAP that came with owning a Model S60 at the time, because I was not a bleeding heart liberal .... Dont take me wrong, I am also concerned about climate change, but I am not prepared to live a hermit lifestyle, turn off all lights in my home, chince before spending little amounts, shystering over liberal causes, being an activist, hugging trees and shouting if anyone tries to cut them down. 90% of Tesla buyers are just like that, like you, i.e. "activists". A smaller chunk are like me, who are bored, stroll on some forum, believe liberal propoganda and fall to it, and just for the thrill of it buy a Tesla. I bought the S60, experienced the sh$tty lifestyle first-hand (chincing on the fleeting battery, turning off everything, easy on paddle, the nightmare of plugging it every night), but I couldn't put with that crap (sometimes waking up in middle of sleep because I forgot to plug my Tesla), so I dumped it. Now you still like it all, only because you believe in the "message", the "mission", the "obsession", the "EV obsession"

Now, since I hit on your hard, to make you happy, I'll post your favorite posting, but I am going to attribute it to the real source, i.e. EV obsession.com something you didn't. http://i0.wp.com/evobsession.com/wp-...sales-2014.png

Zavato

My daily commute is under 50 miles but a 300 plus mile day is not unusual. No electric is there yet for long distance driving. Case in point- someone I know drove from NY to VA in his Tesla. The trip had to be carefully planned so that he could grab a charge mid way.

In my fossil fuel burning car, no such worries. First, I have the range to drive 300 miles and more on a fill up and if I do need a fill up, 5 minute and I'm done.

AMG X

The main reason you would not choose one is plain & simple... the car has no soul, it's dead. I drove a P85d extensively, while it was pretty fast up to 60, the car was not exciting in its delivery of power. No symphony from an engine, just electric rush. It was a different kind of driving experience and traction was pretty good with AWD, but the car's triumph of power starts to die after 80mph and it would be roadkill against any high performance car in the triple digits.

400ixl

You have just proven the point that satisfaction is about brand image / value.

Its like arguing with an Apple fan boy that their product is not the best out there, is lacking in features and flexibility. Futile argument as the blinkers are on.

As I said earlier in the thread, I am quite a fan of what Elon Musk is trying to achieve and prefer that over what a luxury barge would give me. However I fully realise that the vast majority of S class owners bought for that luxury / Prestige reason and as such a Tesla S is not going to be a satisfying experience and they aren't going to buy one.

No amount of shouting on your part is going to change their minds and you are just turning them further off the brand and yourself by trying to do so.

Turn down the volume, give your view and let people make their own minds up. Volume is key, you can still have debate, bit telling someone their opinions and core beliefs are wrong by shouting at them is not going to end well.

Now, the model 3 vs a C Class may be a completely different debate. But one for the future, once the final spec and look of the Model 3 is known.

WEBSRFR

Very true. The Model S is not yet the ideal car for people who drive hundreds of miles nonstop all the time but this represents a very small percentage of drivers.

With regards to the fill up time, consider this math. When a combustion car was our primary car, we would need to get gas every week. It's not unreasonable to say that it took about 10 minutes considering the time to get there, park, get gas, and get back on the route I was on.

Since I now plug in our Tesla when I get home every year I save 50 times X 10 minutes = 500 minutes of time that I don't have to waste at a stinky gas station, sometimes out in the cold and rain. Realize that's over 8 hours wasted each year on gas.

The only drawback is on the 5-10 times a year that we have to travel more than 200 miles at a time we stop for 30-40 minutes after 3 hours of driving to stretch our legs and get something to eat and we are on our way again. We along with many other consumers are finding this to be a perfectly acceptable situation.

In the future the recharge times will come down significantly. A Tesla charge is at 400 volts and takes about 40 minutes to get close to a full charge. The upcoming Porsche Mission E will employ 800 volt chagrining where you get a full charge in just 15 minutes.

Also battery capacities are increasing as well. Tesla just discontinued the 70 KwH battery pack and the 100 kwH battery pack is on the horizon. When the Model S was initially launched, it was available with a 40 KwH battery pack and there will be 5-10% incremental increases every year that will add up to serious range when those increments are compounded over several years.

Basically the charging time math favors EVs even with present technology considering people spend about 8 hours refueling their combustion cars every year.

WEBSRFR

Funny you said that. The lack of vibration and obnoxious farting sounds from the exhaust is one of the things i love the most about our Tesla Model S. I can launch our Model S any time any day without bothering everyone else around me and I love that.

What good is all that noise and childish drama when it is slower to accelerate than a Tesla under normal traffic situations where most people drive their cars?

The power dying off at 80mph has been addressed already with the Ludicrous Speed option that employs a special pyro fuse. An average home outlets pulls about 15 Amps of power. Tesla with the Ludicrous speed option can now draw around 1,500 amps for high speed acceleration.

And they are not done yet. My P85D is now faster than it was when I received it thanks to a software update.

Landers

A completely ludicrous response. First I get gas probably once or twice a week however to say it saves people 10 minutes each time is laughable. For example I am in Kansas this weekend for a soccer tournament. BTW my performance of the s Class would have destroyed your Tesla since you would have had to stop halfway up from Dallas to Wichita whereas I made it on a complete tank and had 1/3 left. Back to the point. I'll get gas prior to going to watch my son play (he is already at the field warming up). You would get there before me as I'll take the 10 minutes filling up, but you'll be waiting for the game to start for 10 minutes more than I would. The point is most people's lives aren't filled with non stop action of doing what they want that filling a tank up takes away from that . Instead of spending 20 minutes waiting for a game to start I'll spend 10 filling up and 10 waiting for the game. Prior to that we sat in a hotel room for an hour before we left.

I also love how you say that on long trips you stop to stretch your legs and grab a bite to eat. I have seen where some of the chargers are located and I have not desire to eat at any off those places. Instead I can decide to eat where I actually want to. you act as if you are pulling up to a charger and getting fine dining right next door.

El Cid

Tucker was financing his car company by selling franchises and options before the cars even when into production.

WEBSRFR

Okay so how long does it take for you to get gasoline each time? 5 minutes?

At 5 minutes once or twice a week that is still 4-5 hours each year wasted on getting gasoline for day to day driving. Perhaps you did not realize this but this is the math: 5 minutes times 50 times is 250 minutes and that is over 4 hours if you get gas only once a week.

Tesla owners just pull into their garages and plug in the car and it takes all but 10 seconds. The only drawback is the 5-10 times we travel longer than 200 miles we stop for 30 minutes to get something to eat and charge the car after 3 hours of driving. Really not a big deal and we've used our Model S as our primary car for over a year.

Even the 10 seconds it takes to plug in a Tesla will be automated in the future

El Cid

Good points, but can also add the major electrical renovations required to your home in order to install a charger properly. As for the restaurants with chargers? Ones around here are very limited and also very pricey for the meals they serve.
Not to mention what happens if you suddenly have to make a 100 mile emergency trip and you just plugged it in? I can just see all the Teslas lined up on the side of the interstates leading from the affected areas next time a hurricane, wildfire or flood hits.

WEBSRFR

In such a scenario realize that combustion cars will be at a greater disadvantage. We still have two other combustion cars in our household. Most of the time they have less than half a tank of gasoline and god forbid there is a crisis and there are lines or unavailability of gasoline, those combustion cars will usually have half their range because we like most people get gasoline when the tank is close to empty.

By comparison we charge the Tesla like we charge our cellphone. Whenever we get home it is being charged and whenever we leave the house we leave with a full charge. So for nonstop driving from when we leave the house, ironically the Tesla most of the time has greater range since it is always fully charged.

The charging issues expressed on this thread are greatly misunderstood by people who don't own or live with the technology.

I can also attest that there are no large scale electrical renovations needed for most houses. If you can power a 240V electrical dryer you can charge a Tesla. It cost perhaps $400 to have a NEMA 14-30 outlet installed in our garage. If you really had to, you can even get by with a 15 or 20 Amp 110V outlet as just about most US commutes are less than about 60 miles. A dryer outlet is still the best and cheapest way to go.

UrBusted

Brand Prestige could be argued depending on Model. The S Class definitely has higher prestige than the Model S. The Porsche 911/918 has higher brand prestige than either and so on.
For WEBSRFR, when we fuel a car, these days it usually takes under 5 minutes due to 2,000+ petrol pumps across the UK, most of which are on the main roads/motorways I take. 5 x 52 = 260 which is 4 hours 20 minutes. In realistic conditions, the Model S has about 240 miles, 260 max. Let's say you're on one of your 300+ mile journeys. I think you said 5 journeys. It takes 50 minutes per charge, assuming that there is no que, and then you will need to go back to another charger a bit later on for the remaining miles after you use the 260. We may not be using that technology, but it is simple maths.
Do you want all of us to buy Teslas? Using your techniques, persuade Elon Musk to make a Tesla that:
Has an interior or similar or higher quality of our S Class'
Have an electric drivetrain with at least 500 miles of range
Have 0-60 of around 3.2 seconds and don't run out of steam after 100mph(This is optional)
Don't have any rattles or other such issues

Most of these issues regarding range e.t.c will be liveable with. The main concern of S Class owners is the interior. Fix the interior and you've already won at least 30% of S Class owners.

WEBSRFR

I agree the Model S interior can use an overhaul. They recently hired Porsche's interior designer so all indications are they will work on improving the interior of the car.

With regards to your math, the supercharging time is closer to 30 minutes than 50 minutes. They have actually managed to deliver more power at superchargers now with a special type of a liquid cooled cable. This will set the stage of future increase in power delivery as well via a software update.

Also traveling with children we usually make a rest stop after about every 3 hours of driving anyway so stopping for a 30 minute rest stop the 5-10 times a year we go on a longer trip really is no big deal as we'd likely be doing that any way. In such cases we especially love how our Model S can now handle over 90% of the driving autonomously.

Like I said before for people who live with this technology even with presenting technology charging is not an issue and it will only get better.

Wolfman

Pointing out the hiring of a single guy means absolutely nothing for people buying or leasing a Tesla as changes will filter in another 3-4 years; at best.

All I am hearing from you that things will get better. Too bad Tesla doesn't offer over-the-air "hardware" updates, since that is that most people are complaining about...

SHHKNewport

S class has more class...nuff said...

fathom6

What a bull crap, It takes over 60 mins at super chargers. This Websrfr guy believes every lie fed to him, or maybe he is a cuckoo.

hyperion667

^despite what you may think, Web is a long time member and deserves some respect

MTrauman

Or plain crazy!


He sends me a private message to tell me he is putting me on his ignore list because he does not agree with my "worldly view". What? This guy is Nuts and a Tesla fanboy that cannot be logical--just read his posts.

MTrauman

With all due respect hype, respect must be earned. He maybe a longtime member but this Tesla stuff has gotten out of control.


This guy sends me a private message to ignore my posts because I don't agree with his worldly view. So I started this thread. THIS GUY IS CRAZY!

hyperion667

I understand completely, I am merely saying......it's cool to be hellbent on something.......but it sort of bugs me when noobs chime in and call out a long time member

fathom6

And MTrauman, I respect opposing views, as long as the party is honest and straight in their argument. Here he writes on MB forum (and between: better be a noob than be a shyster), and spews TOTALLY INCORRECT information right and left, taking benefit because MB owners dont have experience owning a Tesla. In my case, I have lived through it.

The fact is: To be a happy Tesla owner, you have to BELIEVE in that lifestyle (which is certainly not a luxury lifestyle, its a "chincy" lifestyle). Even its most marketable item of 0-60 mph, it is not practical, and no Model S owner actually drives it that way, because it "fries" your batteries i.e. destroys your 100k investment, and it reduces the already limited range downwards.

About Superchargers: They take about 60 plus minutes, but then Superchargers are HARMFUL to the delicate batteries. The repeated use of superchargers shortens the batteries life. The trickle charge which is the most advisable method for the life of the batteries (takes about 48 hrs, yes about 48 hrs on a 110V and half that time on a 220V).

Since I was not a believer in hermit/chincy lifestyle that EV Obsession / Model S REQUIRED, I just couldn't take it, and I plotted to get rid of my S60.

As soon as you buy a Model S, it changes your lifestyle, you start to save, save on everything. You life starts to revolve around a BATTERY, a frickin battery. Dont do this, dont do that, this will kill the battery, this will shorten its life, dont ever charge 100%, dont speed charge it, dont let the battery be too low, dont ever let it drain, dont this, dont that ...

ITS SICK, ITS AN OBSESSION!