MBWorld Gun Owners' Club

[Chappy]

Originally Posted by slammer111 About the whole "defending your family" argument, do people down in the States encounter violent robberies all the time? Up here, 75% of the crime you encounter is someone smashing into your car while you're at the mall and stealing your GPS and a few bucks in change. And if someone sees the guy, the guy bolts. Same goes for break-ins to your house. Thieves only break into houses they think are empty (they ring the doorbell first and leave if they hear someone coming) over here and are looking for loot, not a confrontation. Again, guns would do nothing in this situation since you're out at the mall with your family. Let's take just one city. Seattle. FBI Crime stats for 2008 cite 3,447 VIOLENT crimes (and 3,667 for 2007). On average 10 per day. Violent crimes include: Murder Forcible Rape Robbery Aggravated Assault That JUST Seattle. Bellevue had 168 Spokane had 1,352 Takoma had 1,993 AGAIN, violent crimes. More crime stats for Seattle for 2008, according to the FBI: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/08aprelim/table_4ok-wi.html Add to that Burglary (6,503), Larcent/Theft (22,642), MV theft (3,675) and Arson (79).

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[rockjock]

So-I'm shopping now (its slow here)-
I think I've decided on a Walther P22 (or the Sig Mosquito-but I like the feel of the Walther better-I've held many) and I'm leaning towards Springfield Arms for the XD series (swapable barrels, 9mm/.40-good mags-like the size/shape)-and (zips up the flame suit)-Glock's (I think of them as the iPhone of guns-there okay-but crap loads of accessories).
I wish the old thread was back-that had a TON of info on guns.....

[BrianS]

Originally Posted by coolcamden

Thanks. I don't know how you'll feel with these grips on your Baer, I don't like them on mine. They're actually my pimp grips. I switch over to VZ tactical grips when I shoot. Especially IPSC type runs.

I went to the range today to give the Baer a workout. I didn't have alot of time so the paper zombie had to die a horrible death of only 50 rounds. Here's the result from 20yds. The pistol performed flawlessly, but I seemed to be pulling down a bit. Overall I like the grips. Not sure if that's because they have a matte finish instead of gloss.

I taped the result to the back of my office door. I considered the front but some folks around here don't have a sense of humor.

[Bigdot]

Originally Posted by slammer111

Sure we all collect stuff, but where I come from, the stuff being collected is hockey cards, coins, stamps, Transformers, and cell phones? If you asked me to name someone I know personally who collects guns, I'd actually draw a blank. (no pun intended)

About the whole "defending your family" argument, do people down in the States encounter violent robberies all the time? Up here, 75% of the crime you encounter is someone smashing into your car while you're at the mall and stealing your GPS and a few bucks in change. And if someone sees the guy, the guy bolts. Same goes for break-ins to your house. Thieves only break into houses they think are empty (they ring the doorbell first and leave if they hear someone coming) over here and are looking for loot, not a confrontation. Again, guns would do nothing in this situation since you're out at the mall with your family.

We're not allowed to have guns up here anyways (only a small selection from what I understand) and they just closed down the last shooting range in the city, so most of us do day trips to WA to play with them now.

If I diddnt have my gun on me last sat while in Seattle, my GF and myself would have gotten mugged. true story. I have details if you care.

[Cylinder Head]

Originally Posted by RedMongoosE

If I diddnt have my gun on me last sat while in Seattle, my GF and myself would have gotten mugged. true story. I have details if you care.

Do tell.....

[rockjock]

Originally Posted by RedMongoosE

If I diddnt have my gun on me last sat while in Seattle, my GF and myself would have gotten mugged. true story. I have details if you care.

I like you Mongoose (from what I've read)-but unless brandishing a gun stopped the would be mugger....I need details on how carrying one alone prevented the crime.
I always thought it was one of those "your life isnt worth the wallet, so unless your life is threatened-dont pull out the gun" mantra for gun owners?

[Cylinder Head]

Originally Posted by rockjock

I like you Mongoose (from what I've read)-but unless brandishing a gun stopped the would be mugger....I need details on how carrying one alone prevented the crime.
I always thought it was one of those "your life isnt worth the wallet, so unless your life is threatened-dont pull out the gun" mantra for gun owners?

Nowadays most criminals would rather leave you dead than allowed to identify them.

Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

[MG]

Originally Posted by Cylinder Head

Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

Especially if you are OJ. Wait, that only worked once didn't it.

[Cylinder Head]

Originally Posted by MG

Especially if you are OJ. Wait, that only worked once didn't it.

I was more remarking on self defense with that quote, should have clarified. Unless you know something I don't know and Ron Goldman's tongue was attacking OJ.

[MG]

Originally Posted by Cylinder Head

I was more remarking on self defense with that quote, should have clarified. Unless you know something I don't know and Ron Goldman's tongue was attacking OJ.

Rod Goldman's tongue was attacking Nicole's slit, thats about it.

[coolcamden]

Originally Posted by BrianS

I went to the range today to give the Baer a workout. I didn't have alot of time so the paper zombie had to die a horrible death of only 50 rounds. Here's the result from 20yds. The pistol performed flawlessly, but I seemed to be pulling down a bit. Overall I like the grips. Not sure if that's because they have a matte finish instead of gloss.

I taped the result to the back of my office door. I considered the front but some folks around here don't have a sense of humor.

Nice shooting of a new gun from 20 yards. Offhanded?

Is this your first 1911? They are very addicting, you have started out on a very high end level gun. Not much you have to/want to do to it. Sending it to Bob Chow or Ted Yost are the only "improvement" one can make to a gun like Nighthawk/Baer. But really, there's no need.

I have an extra set of VZ Operators grips. Let me know if you want to try them out. I can send them to you and you can play with them, just send them back to me when you're done.

http://www.vzgrips.com/index.php/com...category_id=21

[MG]

Originally Posted by slammer111

About the whole "defending your family" argument, do people down in the States encounter violent robberies all the time? Up here, 75% of the crime you encounter is someone smashing into your car while you're at the mall and stealing your GPS and a few bucks in change. And if someone sees the guy, the guy bolts. Same goes for break-ins to your house. Thieves only break into houses they think are empty (they ring the doorbell first and leave if they hear someone coming) over here and are looking for loot, not a confrontation. Again, guns would do nothing in this situation since you're out at the mall with your family.

Brilliant, I think more countries should abridge the natural rights of its citizens through laws formed from anecdotal situational constucts.

[BrianS]

Originally Posted by coolcamden

Nice shooting of a new gun from 20 yards. Offhanded?

Is this your first 1911? They are very addicting, you have started out on a very high end level gun. Not much you have to/want to do to it. Sending it to Bob Chow or Ted Yost are the only "improvement" one can make to a gun like Nighthawk/Baer. But really, there's no need.

I have an extra set of VZ Operators grips. Let me know if you want to try them out. I can send them to you and you can play with them, just send them back to me when you're done.

http://www.vzgrips.com/index.php/com...category_id=21

This is actually my third 1911 but so far my hands-down favorite. Today I was shooting modified weaver at the line which is pretty much my default. I the pistol is good to go as is but those VZ grips look nice. Do your spare's have a cut on the right side grip for an ambidextrous safety or are they completely smooth underneath? I've got an ambi safety on my Baer.

[coolcamden]

Originally Posted by BrianS

This is actually my third 1911 but so far my hands-down favorite. Today I was shooting modified weaver at the line which is pretty much my default. I the pistol is good to go as is but those VZ grips look nice. Do your spare's have a cut on the right side grip for an ambidextrous safety or are they completely smooth underneath? I've got an ambi safety on my Baer.

Argh, man. You're right. My VZ's are non-ambi. Sorry.

You still have the other 2 1911's? What make/model are they? I am actually starting to contemplate a cheapo 1911 like a SA GI so I can drill and tap the top of the slide to mount a red-dot scope. Most of the guys shooting IPSC at my club, and the bullseye guys, have scopes on their 1911's. Make me want to join the herd, but no way I'm going to drill and tap my Nighthawks.

[coolcamden]

BTW, your torso shot pattern looks like England, and the head shot pattern looks like a constellation.

Better stop drinking.

[Martinsvi]

If your club is like mine, most of the guys shooting ipsc are shooting either STI, SVI or Para-ordinance for their open guns(OPtic mounted) Very few people try to use the older single stacks as they just dont have the round capacity of the newer guns. My SVI will hold 30 rounds of 38 super with the 170mm mag and 23 with the 140mm. These guns are based on the 1911 design but major improvements have been made to them. We can commonly do 6 round curses of fire from a surrender draw in under 3 sec.

If you want to mount a scope to a gun the best way to mount it is to the frame, most of us use the C-More scope which has no magnification but is a holographic sight.

The nighthawk is a nice gun, as is the Baer. I know of shooters with Premier2's that have 100k thru them without major issue. guns are still reasonably tight and shoot acceptable groups with good ammo.

I have a couple of pics of my open and limited guns.

[BrianS]

Originally Posted by coolcamden

Argh, man. You're right. My VZ's are non-ambi. Sorry.

You still have the other 2 1911's? What make/model are they? I am actually starting to contemplate a cheapo 1911 like a SA GI so I can drill and tap the top of the slide to mount a red-dot scope. Most of the guys shooting IPSC at my club, and the bullseye guys, have scopes on their 1911's. Make me want to join the herd, but no way I'm going to drill and tap my Nighthawks.

No problem. Thanks for the offer. My other two are a "Loaded" Springfield and a Para P14 Limited that I basically stripped and filled with parts from Les Baer, Wilson, and Ed Brown. I also have a Sig P220 with a threaded Barsto barrel for my AWC can plus another barrel I had made for the Para.

Martinsvi has the biggest 1911 addiction here so his advice is definitely solid.

[Bigdot]

Originally Posted by rockjock

I like you Mongoose (from what I've read)-but unless brandishing a gun stopped the would be mugger....I need details on how carrying one alone prevented the crime.
I always thought it was one of those "your life isnt worth the wallet, so unless your life is threatened-dont pull out the gun" mantra for gun owners?

Heres the story on paper the best way I could describe it,






ets set the stage- Saturday 12/19/2009 2130hours. Seattle, Washington Alaskan Way by pier 66(ish) Fog, light mist, no traffic (motor or pedestrian)


The girlfriend and I decide to have an early dinner at Anthony's on Alaskan Way. Im wearing a collared shirt over an undershirt, a green zipper jacket under a sport coat. my Glock 23 9+1 condition 1, in my Galco Skyops at 3:45 on my waist tucked. Adjacent to the primary, I have a Glaco IWB mag holder with my secondary G23 mag. Im wearing dark grey pants, with light "ghost striping" on them, on my ankle my BUG S&W 442 with 5 .38sp+p.

as we are walking to dinner we notice a wma running on the northbound side of the sidewalk yelling at GF and me " Some guy just got jumped over there" Not quite understanding why the wma was notifing us about this situation, GF and I wrote him off as a drunk or intoxicated individual because of his irratic mannerisms. After a lovely meal, GF and I decide that we feel like having desert down the street at a more casual restaurant that we visited the night before, primarly for the larger selection of sweets. As girlfriend and I are walking down the south side of the sidewalk ( closest to the water) we notice 4 bma come around a corner from a non lit aria. description of the bma as follows: 5'8"-6'1", baggy shirts, hats on crooked, baggy pants, roughly 20-27years. appear to be gang insignia or similar on the clothing. It suddently clicked that the earler man was trying to warn us not to go down that way on Alaskan Way, but with these 4 individuals quickly approaching there was not much I could do but stand my ground. Nor could we cross the street because of a railing that kept the street and the sidewalk separated.

The 1st bma walked roughly 10' in front of the following 3, who have formed at this time what could be described as a cone or a backwards wedge formation. roughly 50' from GF and myself. they all exchanged glances and head movements and altered their stride.

At this time I took GF and put her on my left, and with my left hand discreetly grabbed the rear of my shirt under my two jackets and proceeded to "un-tuck" my G23, and place the shirt and jacket1 behind the Glock, a movement that is quick from practice, discrete and continued to keep the Firearm concealed under the sport coat. she grabbed my hand knowing that turning our backs to change direction would make us vulnerable, and that the only option would be to stand our ground and continue confidently walking straight.

as the distance from the first male individual closed from 50 to 15' between us, his eye contact went to my GF and her purse. In a darting manor, it caught my stare and he stated to me in a low whisper in passing " Your gunna get mugged"

at that point I dropped GFs hand and turned my body to be square on to the 3 approaching individuals and elegantly tossed my elbow back and using my right to Open Carry in WA ,expose my Glock in a Non- threating manor. while standing in the "interrogation stance" and in a stern voice I said " Go ahead guys" smiled, cocked my head in a "pass through" motion as if I was just letting them go by a tight space. The 4 individuals took one step toward my girlfriend, noticed my Tool and my tone of voice and strong eye contact and showed me their palms down low by their sides, looked away and continued walking.

we got the mud pie.


RM




Now I know that theres a lot of " you shudda done this..." or " why would you expose your gun"

But Im a tall thin young white guy with a tall thin white girl, we both felt threatened, epically after the first guy told us " Your Gonna get Mugged" in a very very threating way and menacing way. Its a voice i will never forget. I felt that if I took control of the situation, I made the first defensive move to foil their surprise attack that it would work... It did. I'm not sure why the GF or I didn't put together what the wma screamed to us before dinner, but we just wrote him off as some weirdo amped up on something, not a good Sumerian trying to keep us from having the same fate as an earlier person.

What did I learn? thank god for alert level yellow, and the only way to carry is condition 1 because if SHTF no time for racking.


Rm

[Bigdot]

Originally Posted by rockjock

I always thought it was one of those "your life isnt worth the wallet, so unless your life is threatened-dont pull out the gun" mantra for gun owners?

If you read any sort of come data, or law enforcement data, than you will learn that the common criminal travels in larger groups, has a tendency to be much more violent and dangerous than criminals in the past. Having been assaulted before ( in NY by a 918(v) crazy violent mental case woman)) I know the dangers of being attacked. In the NY incident I had a 5" Gerber folder on my side that I did not draw, because I felt that my life was not in danger. When these 4 guys were making advancements I felt that the life of my GF and me life were in danger.

[rockjock]

okay....that I can understand.
I'm trying to "convince" my wife that its better to have the gun and not use it ever then not have it and maybe need it-can I fwd her this so she realizes that there really are no nice people in the world?
Glad you and GF are okay-listen to the drunks....they know more

[coolcamden]

Originally Posted by Martinsvi

If your club is like mine, most of the guys shooting ipsc are shooting either STI, SVI or Para-ordinance for their open guns(OPtic mounted) Very few people try to use the older single stacks as they just dont have the round capacity of the newer guns. My SVI will hold 30 rounds of 38 super with the 170mm mag and 23 with the 140mm. These guns are based on the 1911 design but major improvements have been made to them. We can commonly do 6 round curses of fire from a surrender draw in under 3 sec.

If you want to mount a scope to a gun the best way to mount it is to the frame, most of us use the C-More scope which has no magnification but is a holographic sight.

The nighthawk is a nice gun, as is the Baer. I know of shooters with Premier2's that have 100k thru them without major issue. guns are still reasonably tight and shoot acceptable groups with good ammo.

I have a couple of pics of my open and limited guns.

We call them the space guns or race guns. STI's, SVI's in 38 Super. The funniest thing is one of the better guys in IPSC must be 80 years old shooting an 8-shots revolvers on moonclips. He would outshoot most of the younger guys, so we would set the course with running between the stages. So much fun to watch him run.

The bullseyes guys are very, very good. Paced by 1 guy that's on the US Olympic National shooting team. Another guy consistently wins on the national stage, and a 61 year old Asian lady that's a 7 times consecutive national champion in steel challenge. When they shoot, I just stood and watched.

Can you PM me info on the frame mounts and C-More scope?

[mbarrad]

Been awhile since I posted here, but since the club is back up, I'll add something. Been updating my collection so I'll post some pics. All of the rifles in the pics below are WWII battle rifles except for my SKS. All of my rifles have been fired by myself and are safe for use. Most are matching. I have tried to represent as many countries as I can that were involved in WWII.

I am truly blessed to live in a country where I can own firearms. Pics below with descriptions:

From right to left:

Japan - 1940 Type 38 Nagoya Carbine w/Mum w/bayonet
Czechoslovakia - 1935 VZ-24 w/full lions crest
Germany - 1944 K98 Mauser DOU
Italy - 1939 7.35 M39 Carcano w/folding bayonet
Russia - 1941 SVT-40 from Izhevsk Aresenal w/bayonet
Great Britain - 1941 Enfield No. 1 Mk III Ishapor
USA - 1941 Winchester M1 Garand 100% correct
Russia - 1943 Mosin Nagant M38 Carbine from Izhevsk Aresenal
France - 1936 MAS-36
Russia - 1951 SKS from Tula Aresenal

Without Bayonets


With Bayonets


On coffee Table

[electromethod]

Went in to pick up my P30 the same day UPS dropped it off @ the FFL. Ended up walking out with 2 guns in the end: the HK & my first Sig. The P30 is very accurate just like CH has said. The P238 is amazing..... minimal recoil.... nothing like our LCP. It was actually fun and surprisingly accurate.

[Yacht Master]

Shopping tool,

www.ammoengine.com

[BrianS]

My personal favorite.



http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/01/sci-fi-weapons/