nukblazi

I thought it was a tri-valve head. Two intake, one exhaust, making it 12 valves? Can someone provide the head designation for the M111? I will make some calls tomorrow and see if they have the stock specs on file for the pricing and options.

I can get 94 octane from the pump. My car is going into the shop on 6/10. I will ask them about making changes at that time.

I think, depending on cost, porting and polishing is going to be the first thing I do. I am going to stop by the two shops down the road to get pricing. Then the top end I guess for round two, etc..

I will post the answers I get tomorrow. Do any of the tuners think all this is unreasonable?

Kleemann, assuming that the conversion becomes available, do you have any objections to this work?

dswildfire

m111 is 16v, 2 in, 2 out, per cylinder. one of the first things that caught me off guard because i thought all the benz engiines were 3v/cylinder SOHC. but this one is 4v/cylinder, DOHC.

Nektopoli

I wonder what the specs are compaired to the 190E-2.3 16V motor.

NP

dswildfire

wasn't that still an m111? because i was under the impression that the engine had been in use for quite some time even before putting a supercharger on it.

nukblazi

I was under the same impression. I don't know what other differences there have been though, internals, head, intake, etc...

I didn't get around to calling around today because we were trouble shooting my friends jeep. TPS sensor threw a code, replaced the O2 sensor, cleared code, boring... but seems to be fixed. Hopefully I will get on those calls tomorrow.

If anyone can list out which models had the M111 it could help...


thomas

Eurosport

i don't know how accurate this list is
but from it C class 94/97 had it

http://fly.hiwaay.net/~gbf/mbmodels.html

nukblazi

According to that page there is the M111 and the M111.961, the .961 being used in the 94-97 C Class, The M111 in the later model C Class and SLK.

Anyone know what the older 190E 2.3L 16V was?

It's 8:45 am, I will make those calls and visit some shops today.

Lucas

That was a M 102 in basics like any 102 8 valve, but the 2,3 and 2,5 - 16 has a Cosworth developed 16 valve cyl.head a different
and bigger KE-jetronic and a fine header and exhaust system.
the 2,3 made 175 HP and rev.'ed 7000 rpm. with arround 10:1
in compression ratio.
I once installed a Mosselmann turbo system with 0,4 in boost, it made easily 250 HP and really made good low end torque and
high output in the higher revs.

That why I think a turbo on your motors wouldn't be bad.

nukblazi

Hey Lucus,

I am waiting for responses back from Crower and Manley. I just sent emails asking if they had the M111 specs on file or if I would need to provide a custom order form to get things priced. (This would all be high budget not matter what.)

I don't disagree with you on the turbo. I am just being stubborn. I wish I could get 250 N/A out of the motor and I bet I could with an unlimited budget. The turbo conversion is a great project, just for someone else.

Cosworth head? Any potential value in utilizing that head on the M111 and larger fuel injection system? (Just winging it at this point, but not a bad idea if it produces results.)

Also, do you mean "fine header and exhaust" as in "damn, baby you fine", or something else I am not familiar with?

Thank you for participating everyone.

mdp c230k

'fine' as in good quality.

nukblazi

I didn't get any responses back today.

Some of the "sale" prices are around $1000/set for steel i-beam connecting rods, $70-$100/ vavle for titanium, etc.

I was joking about the 'fine' comment. I intend on mimicing Brandon's set up on the coupe. Supersprint header and 2.5" piping all the way back. I would go with the Eisenmann High, or Race perf muffler though. I think the Race perf would be way too loud even without all the motor work though.

mdp c230k

I'd rather see titanium con rods and steel or nikasil valves. Titanium valves are a waste on a low rever but Ti rods lower moving mass to free up power.

PS - I'm from Westwood, Ca

nukblazi

I wish I was from Westwood, CA. Westwood, NJ is a nice town, in the nicest county in NJ, but it is still NJ. The only good thing around here is NYC, and that is losing it's novelty since I lived there for 5 years. Honestly, I would move out there without thinking twice.

I just posted example prices. Those are median prices for products that were overstock from both companies and available online.

Manley makes and ultra-light weight Titanium I-Beam connecting rod. That is the rod I am going to get the pricing on. Then I am going to get pricing on both steel and Titanium vavles and then their platinum series pistons. Light weight forged construction, again, buttom end mass movement.

2SYKbenz's

can someone give me an idea how much boost the m111 engine can safely handle?

Lucas

I made one 3-4 years ago where we took of the OE SC and replaced it with a KLEEMANN G2 kit ( out of production now ), the G2 is a Autorotor SC with Laminova tubes like on KLEEMANN V6 and V8. This engine runs safely 0.9 bar and makes 260 HP with every thing stock on the engine.

countrybumkin

titanium rods from crower are 459 a piece.

But does anyone know potentially how much rpm could be picked up with new springs, I know everyone says the engine is a torque monster but with a manual transmission I hit redline in top gear at just over 140 mph and I would also like to increase my top speed, that was my reason for a previous inquiry about springs.

Thanks,
Diehl

Buellwinkle

Wow, you guys are willing to spend some serious dough on internal mods for a huge maybe when there are 2 proven solutions on the table;

1) engine swap with a C32 (no smog issues, just move over the entire motor and all the electronics), my guess is you can probably find a motor in a salvage yard for $3,500 and pay someone to put it in, likely $5,000 complete and you'll have a reliable and smooth 349 HP, not to mention the only C32 coupe in the country. Something that's marketable when you are done. Also, don't forget your M111 will be sellable to recoupe some of your costs.

2) like Lucas said, turbo.. They are cheap (a reconditioned Mitsu 16g is probably about $500-800) and get a manifold from Mosselman. The IC and plumbing for the intake is already there, the car is already setup to run boost so you can probably run 1 bar for 300HP. Don't know what Mosselman would charge you but this can't cost more than $2-3K. It's been done before and they got 314 HP, not too shabby. There are plenty of ricer shops that really know their turbo stuff, just find one that is excited about adding MB's to the mix and they'll work with you.

Whatever you do, make sure you have another car to drive

nukblazi

Buell-

You of all people should know that "maybe's" are a lot more fun. Even when people with 20 something years of experience tell you there are better, cheaper, more viable solutions.

Food for thought.
*This is currently more of a feasiblity exercise.
*These parts make the motor extremely reliable under boost.
*In a perfect world, these mods should be a baseline for increasing the boost to any serious level.
*The C32 motor would make the front end much heavier. We are looking to reduce overall weight + increase perfomance.
*Kleemannizing a C320 Sport Coupe would likely be cheaper then a C32 swap.
*This is just a lot of fun. In my world (my own head) having a fully worked M111, is more credible then the C32 or turbo conversion.
*If this is in fact something I do, I will not be looking to sell the car. Ever. I've already grown very attached to this car. Ugly lil'son'of'a!
*The next round of tuning would be significantly increasing the boost. I want to confidence of *knowing* my bottom end can handle it.
*If I do this, my project is going to be about a year out from now, when the warranty is over. Want suspension and brakes and kleemann lightweight flywheel first.

As it stands, currently I still will need my coupe for up to a 1hour commute each way (if I ever land a freekin job). Going to trade my 00' Cherokee Sport (really bad gas milage) in for a FWD econo box (VW, Mini, Civic,Focus?). Then I'll be more willing to take the streetability away from the coupe. Notice all of my commuter options are more viable cheap race cars with more readily avalible aftermarket parts???

Not sure how it works in Cali, here, you go to a gas station, pay $40 beans, they'll pass *anything* for NJ State inspection. Your biggest worry here, is that cops will ticket you for noise violations by ear and insurance is the highest in the nation.

Hopefully I'll be able to post some prices tomorrow. (damn this post is needlessly long, sorry all)

nukblazi

I don't know the answer to the spring question.

I can hit my speed limiter at the top of 5th gear with my manny. Not sure why you're redlining it in top gear at 140?

countrybumkin

I agree, although many of us will most likely never get these modifications accomplished, I think it is fun to have the discussions, falls into the same category as arm chair racing.

On an even better note I just ordered my eisenmann exhaust for my slk 230k today. Evosport said it should be in, in about 3-4 weeks I also ordered the mid pipe for it. I'll let everyone know what I think when I get it.
Does anyone know what the cost is of the asp pulley and maf relocation as well as the price of just the maf relocation, and who to contact, my brother is a machinist and I may ask him to make me the pulley instead of buying one. does anyone know

Buellwinkle

The ASP pulley is $360 if you supply the factory damper and $650 if they do. You can machine your own pulley ring but whatever you do, get it professionally balanced after you press/weld/screw it on. That's for the 2000+ models, the factory pulley may be a different price for the older SLK's. If you have a pre-FL SLK230 then the MAS relocation, FPR, and colder plugs are available from Linh, don't know his latest price and he also does installation in So Cal.

Count on at least a month wait with ASP as they are built to order and if you don't supply the factory pulley then you may have to wait if MB doesn't have any in their US warehouses.

Lucas

Make the perfect buttom with titaniun rods and ceramic piston, cabable to take 2,5 bar boost, sounds like a fun project in a perfect world.
Now you just need something to give you the boost

The Eaton blower ? or maybe a huge turbo after all ?

nukblazi

I like my cars just like my women, the perfect bottom end.

Sincerely, I hope that Brandon will have the lysholm conversion for the coupe at that point. Will it make 2,5 bar of boost? I don't know but my guess is not likely. Maybe then I'll be at a point I can have a custom conversion built for me by you guys? Who knows? I don't, that why we are talking about it.

So, in the end, yes maybe a big turbo, don't be so confused, I promise to let you drive it when it is done Maybe N/A in the end, again, who knows? If I get really rich really soon, you might see my coupe as a privateer on speed cup next year. Maybe being a former employee at manley might help me get a decent enough discount to do this sooner then later. One thing is for sure, this is what interests me, not "bolt-on" turbo upgrades and destroyed turbo fins when you blow pieces of that stock piston out the exhaust manifold. As for now, a single crower connecting rod is out of budget, I am still rolling coins from my change jar for my struts.

So... back to feasibility; pretend you know boost is coming later, doesn't matter how but it is, and you need to help someone who really wants to be your client ready for it,

*what are some of the key concerns you would have with the motor in whole, bottom and top end?
* are there any aftermarket heads made for the M111? Including the working the head from the 190E?
* is the intake manifold integrating into sc?

But so far, in my opinion, this is the best thread to hit this performance forum! I doubt Evosport is building Sleestack's CLK with just bolt-ons. I wish there was more discussion about that project too.

countrybumkin- When pulleys are under a grand and warrantied, please don't have your brother make you one. It really isn't DIY imo.

Lucus- the other current project is a 57 Chevy pickup. Converted from Long Bed to 2.5"shorter then a short bed, worked 383 stroker crate motor, worked TH700 auto, shortened 74' mulibu frame, 4-link rear suspension, fully independent front. Completely striped and beaded, chassis dropped cab and bed, metal restoration where needed, custom fab in most places. (sorry for another needlessly long post )

Lucas

Do you have a problem with " A " on your computer ?????

If you want a lot of boost change the pistons to forged, you can use JE or what ever, inexpensive and strong.

You won't make a high rev. engine anyway, so putting in titanium rods ect.ect. will be a waiste of money.

BMW ran years back with a cast iron crank from a stock 318 IS in their 1500 HP 4 cyl F1 engine, you can with no trouble make over 400 HP with the 111 engine, if just you put in forged pistons.

mdp c230k

The pulley can not be balanced off of the crankshaft. If it is done off the crank the weight of the woodruff key is not accounted for making the balance way,way off! Anyone who knows what they are doing would see that! The improperly balanced pulley will cause serious loses in power and smoothness, not to mention engine life.