gogos

Hello from Greece. After two years of studding EATON MP45, the SC on the MB M271 motor, I decided to make an effort to improve its characteristics. The Specific SC is positive displacement type roots 45ci or 750cm3 of air per revolution. The SC type roots, are the most inefficient because first they consumed about 25hp from the engine at 15.000rpm (imagine what the DRAW 22.000rpm) and second after that speed limit the air due to compression gets very hot, with known negative effects on engine performance. This is why the AMG monsters are using "twin screw", and no "roots". Finally, MB saw the competition and turned at last to turbo.
In USA, where the SC is a must in tuning, there is no serious improving the MP45, and I had to start from scratch. After seeing many-ported SC I decide to do some porting work, ie opening the exit port, normalization and polishing the air intake on the back and closing the four holes of air relief. For the holes, I did not use jb weld or so but I make cups from aluminum. In order the cups to stay in place I cut pieces of industrial rubber plate 10mm thickness and fill the holes in both sides of the sc exit, as you can see in the pictures.
Let us see in what rpm the EATON rotor spins, from OEM until the upper limit it can spin with custom crank - sc pulley:
1. Crank 175mm / supercharger 72mm = 2,43 gearing X 6.200rpm = 15.100 (All the 163hp with the 2080, 2180, 2380 etc.
2. Crank 175mm / supercharger 65mm = 2,69 gearing X 6.200rpm = 16.700 with the 184hp and 192hp with the 2780
3. Crank 175mm / supercharger custom 62mm = 2,82 gearing X 6.200rpm = 17.500
4. Crank 195mm/supercharger 65mm = 3 gearing X 6.200rpm = 18.600 (Kleemman)
5. Crank 195mm / supercharger 62mm = 3,14 gearing X 6.200rpm = 19.500
6. Crank 195mm / supercharger 65mm = 3 gearing X 7.000rpm = 21.000
7. Crank 195mm / supercharger 62mm = 3,14 gearing X 7.000rpm = 22.000 which is the maximum you can spin the MP45 in M271, because there is no space for other pulley combination. For the limit of 22.000rpm will need several interventions in functionality, such as oil cooling system for the oil in the snout drive gears and lighting the rotors by 30-40% in order to reduce parasitic losses and affect the reliability of as much as possible.
First a 2080 MP45 was selected, a 62mm pulley was placed and apart from the work of porting it was partially rebuilt: the coupler was replaced, the oil was changed, the housing has been polished inside with special OINTMENT Unipol, the o-ring filler cap was changed and also the special grease blue color Beveroil (Lilac) inside the back bearing.
In order to replace the front bearings of the rotors you have to take them apart and it is very difficult to put them together because you need special timing machine to reinstall them properly. I would not recommend someone to dare. The opening of the air outlet was made on a mill and the polishing by hand and custom made flexible with long nose to polish the most part and not hurt the inside of the housing where the rotors are turning and damage the SC.
The SC was spinning for 7 days at 21.000rpm and then "caboom". Second attempt with another 2080, was also end in 7 days with another broken SC. My conclusion is that the 2080 cannot spin more than the 19.500rpm. When opened, the drive gears were destroyed.
Third attempt was made with a 2780 from C230 which use a spring for the rotation and not the plastic coupler, which is spinning many months now without problems.
Spinning the SC more than 19.500rpm causing too much stress and high temperature inside the snout and the SC brake down. To avoid facing the problem it should be installed a closed-circuit oil cooling system in order to reduce the temperature and avoid the heat to be transported to SC body. This system will work with a low flow fuel pump, an oil cooler, an expansion tank, a relief valve and some hoses.
Below are some photos of the project. I opened this topic for those interested to know about and to exchange ideas and thoughts, which are welcome.
Those who wish to enter the above procedure should know that no one could give warranty to a mechanical assembly, which rotates 5.300rpm more than the maximum limit, according the manufacturer.
The SC is on two SLK200K giving a gain of 8RWHP. The boost rise to 1,15bar making 199RWHP at 6.700rpm, on a Mustang dyno. Also a 5bar fuel pressure regulator, 195mm crankshaft pulley, bigger IC, improvement of air supply piping, headers, free flow catalyst and a remap of the ECU by a tuner who has the DAMOS files of the SIM4LKE, is the only way.
The last problems I am working on, is:
1. the MAF limits out at 180g/sec and doesn't allow the pressure to rise more opening the bypass valve, even I have try bigger MAP. Attempts of changing or decaling the MAF heart idle and performance.
2. does anyone know how I can merge the wiring of the throttle body connector in order to put the throttle body of a SLK350 which is bigger? In "autodata 3.38' the wires are different as you can see in the photos.
Any ideas will be appreciated.
PS: Sorry for my English.

gogos

The rest of the photos. You can check some videos and the sound. In the second video the clutch was not in good condition. Soon more fly by and also from inside camera.

gogos

Also the wiring info for the throttle body according to autodata 3.38. I thing it will be better to replace the throttle boby with a bigger one than porting it. Can anyone help me adout the wiring.

suicidal4life

Nice posts

RHINOSPEED

Hi, do you have the number of the 62 or 65 mm SC polley?, Thank You for the information.

gogos

The 62mm pulley is a custom made by me. The SC with the 4 last # ...2780 have a 65mm pulley from the factory. It is the SC that MB has put on W203 C230K and all the M271 with the SC who puts out 184Hp. Before you do anything find a tuner who can remap your ECU with the DAMOS files, otherwise you will never be able to rise the boost more than the factory limits, no matter the size of the pulley. Also spining the M45 above 19.500rpm you will need a bigger IC and an intercooler water spray in order to reduse IAT. With the OEM IC spininig the M45 at 19.500rpm I log IAT at 71 Celsius on a hot day of 38 Celsius.
With the bigger IC and the waterspray the max IAT I have log, spinning theM45 at 21.000rpm, no more 40-41 Celsius on a hot day of 38 C.
The system use AEM 250psi pump, AEM filter, high pressure nozzles, the xenon tank from a C203 station vagon and a controller from Labtronics.
The IC waterspray is a DIY and if anyone want infos I can post a how to. You can check some photos.

RHINOSPEED

Hi again, I measure my s/c pulley and it´s 69mm, and looks that, there is not space for a smaller pulley, it´s only a 1.5mm between the pulley and the body of the s/c.
Do You the part number of the 195mm crankshaft pulley?, or where can I get one?.
Thank You for the information.

gogos

The s/c pulley is 65mm if you have the C230K. The outer diameter is 70mm and I think this is what you have mesaure. In order to measure right you must take out the belt. If you do so then you will measure 65mm. The smallest s/c pulley that can be placed is 62mm it is a custom made be me. The crankshaft pulley is also a custom made by me. Only Carllsson and Kleemman makes them but the prices was very high. The 62mm s/c pulley cost me 100$ and the 195mm (200mm outer diameter) crankshaft pulley cost me 250$, because you have to make also a smaller pulley 120mm for the water pump and to buy another belt 7PK2465 or 7PK2470.
Before you put any pulley on you engine, find a tunner that can remap the ECU. No remap no any Hp gain. Your engine puts out 192 Crank Hp at 0,9bar. The factory map reads only 1bar so I dont think that you need any pulley. You need a remap from a tuner who has the damos files of the SIM4LKE in order to be able to rise the boost and to change the A/F ratio and to see some good Hp gain.

RHINOSPEED

Hi, I investigated with some ECU tuners, and most that they can get for a remaping its 18 hps and 15 NM of torque, That dissapoint me, it´s too few for a $450-500 dollars, I can get more if I trick the ECU. Thank You any way for all the information.
Regards.

joskami

"gogo" Is there anything new, how make your mod file?

RHINOSPEED

By Superchips

gogos

If I understand you are asking how I make the mod file for the remap of the ECU. Well you need the Damos files for the SIM4LKE (it is the code of the ECU), then you open the files with WinOls (it is a program which run on windows) and you can choose the map of the ECU you want to change the values. Then you put your car on a dyno and make a nice remap.
The most tuners have access only to the map for timing advance and fuel. If you don't change the A/F Ratio and the boost maps then the pre-cat O2 wide band sensor will cut the fuel that has been added in order to keep the target A/FR with in the factory limits. Also if you change the crank pulley with a bigger one the ECU will use the S/C Bypass valve to keep the boost at factory limits.
With the Damos files you can handle the factory ECU like a stand alone and you have access to all the ECU maps. And trust me they are too many in there.

PS: I don't run any remap store, but I am o loco DIY'er who don't want to feed his ECU with can remaps. I bought my car on '04 and the last two years I manage to see some results.

RHINOSPEED

Hi: I do not recomend the winols because this only open the information and you don´t know the number of the file that is for timing or fuel, with winols when you open the information appears aprox 200 maps with out any information,and find wich one is the correct. I use the ecm2001 to mod the ecu information for a Renault clio RS, and this programm find in groups of information: boost, fuel timing, etc, each one have aprox 5 to 10 maps depend of the car, then You go to the map or maps that You want to modified, but You have to read the top subtitles of the maps, it is very important because this is another subtitle, for example: Fuel; temp 80-100 ° celcius: this is; modified the fuel when the water temp is 80- 100° celcius. This is important because if You modified another map, then You will have erratic idle, that is You can modified the map only when the car is cold and when tha water gets 80°-100° celcius automatic change the fuel rate and the car now is normal. Now I use the Galleto 1250 to read and write the information and the ecm to modified the file, You only need the correct drive for the conection to Your ecu´s car, the correct checksum to modified the file and know how it is the correct % of the modification Your car need´s. That is not easy only if You have the capacitación of Ecu´s mod, I take mine in Houston with Greg Banish. I hope this information is usefull for You

gogos

RHINOSPEED, thanks for the info. With WinOls if you you have the arcive with the damos files you can choose bitween manual or automatic recon of the maps, but I will also try ecm2001. I use Genius in order to read and write the ECU and the race to modify the values. All this works fine for me. As I write previusly I am a DIYer and I start to search about M271 after all the tuners in my country, offer nothing else than "can remaps", with a total gain of 18-20 Hp. The way was difficult because I knew nothing about ECU, so I had to study at the age of 50 years old from the begining. I will never call my self a tuner and all has be done just for the fun. With the money that I have spent I could buy a 55 AMG, but in Greece the taxes that you have to pay every year is very high. My poor straight four banner will never be able to reach the V6 or V8, but with 206 RWHP and the car on dyno mode, I can play around quiet well and have fun.
The big diference in the whole project has be done with the ported M45 on. That's why I post all the details about it, for anyone that wants to try it. Thanks again for your info.

RHINOSPEED

Hi, Your WinOls programm is original?, where doYou get?, ThankYou for the information.

gogos

You have PM.
I have download today ECM Titanium and it is very nice. Friendly interface and with the help from the manual you can play very nice.....

bastor

Great Thread gogos!

Can you tell me more about your IC Waterspray DIY ?
Do you use an aftermarket watercooled IC and modified it?


What means the Numbers 2080, 2180, 2380 etc. - i got a M111 E20 ML EVO with 163hp and Eaton M45 charger. Is there a comparison about the Numbers and the Eaton M45 Generations ? I should have a 3rd Gen M45 at mine!

gogos

1. The IC that I use is air to air. I have change the OEM IC with a bigger aftermarket one from turbodk, because logging the intake air temperature at 72oC spinning the sc at 20.000rpm on a hot summer day, wasnt the best for the engine.
2. There are two ways to make an IC water spray.
For the simple one you need a tank for the water with a pump on it. If the pump is for the xenon washers is better because the water pressure is better. Then comes the noozles which must be low pressure full cone and the lines for the water. Finnaly in order to activate the system, you need an adjustable pressure switch, an anti dip valve, a relay and an on/off switch. It will cost you about 80$ and you can use simple water.
For a "highend" system you need a water tank, a high pressure water pump (I choose the 250psi pump from AEM's water methanol kit), a good water filter (I also choose the one from AEM's kit), high pressure full cone misting noozles, a controller for the system from elabtronics, a relay and an on/off switch. It will cost you about 450$ but it worth because it spent 80% less water than the simple one but you have to use water for ironing. (Sorry I dont know the word)
The IAT will rise no more than 40-41oC on a hot summer day of 38oC. You can read many articles at www.autospeed.com regarding the water IC spray.
3. The 4 digits have to do with the type of the supercharger and only for the M271 engine. You can also do porting to the M45 SC from the M111 engine.
Now I am on holidays and I will be back on the the end of the month. Till then make some reading on the net about intercooler water spray and let me know which system you prefer and I will help you out.
Best regards, George.

Giampaolo84

Hi! It's a very interesting discussion that got me some doubts:
I have a 200k from 2005. I can't understand what type of eaton i have!!

The serial number on the K's chassis is: A2710902380. Gogos said the m45 K is in the M271...so what's mine?

I have just changed the s/c pulley with a 62.5mm ca one. And after that i discovered that a previous owner has changed for sure also the crank, but i don't know the exact measure.

Here you are some photos to understand what i mean.

this is the crank pulley modified and the tag on the s/c chassis:

gogos

Giampaolo84, do you have the R170 or R171? The foto from the pulley is from the M111 engine which have two belts at the crank pulley. The sc .... 2380 that you are talking is with a spring in snout. It is an old version of M45. The last and final sc that MB use on M271 engine is the .....2780. It came with a 65mm pulley. At the M271 engine if you put a bigger crank pulley you have do change also the OEM water pump pulley with a smaller one, because there is no space. If you have the M271 engine the biggest crank pulley is 200mm outer diameter and the water pump 120mm. Can you post a foto from your entire engine bay?

Giampaolo84

Hi there! First of all thank for your reply!

Yeah, i forgot to mention the most important thing, i have a 200k my2005 r171 (don't blame me, i got it used with BRC gpl plant).

Anyway, things are going this way: i have changed the SC pulley with one built by a friend of mine. It's ca 62.5mm (another guy bought another pulley from him, after ECU the dyno said 187cv).

While we were working to the SC (i have changed the oil after having changed the pulley), we noticed that the original crank pulley was surrounded by another piece of steel. So i realized that the previous owner did the crank mod.
It was not so easy to take the measure, so i took the thickness of that piece (you can see from the photo) and it's 10mm. Considering the original pulley to be 175mm (is it correct?), adding 10mm x 2 (side to side) i have the crank pulley with 195mm. Ah, it is ok with the water pulley, i notice no space problems.

On monday i'll go to ECU and dyno the car...hope it won't burst!

ps. sorry for the bad pics quality!

gogos

If your crank pulley is bigger than the OEM you have to change the water pump pulley because the is no space. You can see at the photos bellow, the clearance between the two pulleys on my car. The crank pulley is 200mm and the water pump pulley is 120mm all at outer diameter. I have made more than 10 set for the M271 and you can't change only the crank pulley. That's why Carllson, Kleemann and other brands make both crank and water pump pulleys along with a new belt. Only if I have exact size of your crank pulley I will be able to answer your question. Anyway I hope that the dyno after the remap will make you happy.

Giampaolo84

I'm gonna try to measure the water pump! Maybe the previous owner changed them both.

Anyway, watch this: i did a dyno after few days i bought it (i didn't know about the crank, it was already changed). It seems like to have stock power...is due to the lack of the remap?

Giampaolo84

Ok, i read about 130mm-140mm measuring the WP and this is a pic showing the distance between WP e Crank!

From my photo it is not easy to catch the gap, but more less is the same like in your pic.

Giampaolo84

Yeasterday i brought the car to the remap.
Sorry for my english, i'll try to explain what happened in a few words:
put the car on the dyno with the manometer on, at 5000rpm in V the K pressure was about 1.2bar and the car had the recovery signal.
Now we can say for sure that also the Crank has been changed by the previous owner... i'm thinking to take it off in order to finish the map!