agepag

This has probably been discussed before, but my wife wants out of the current mini van and into something else. We have 3 kids so the Rclass is something she really likes. The question is should we get the diesel or gas? Will we really save anything with the diesel?

Thanks

efzauner

The diesel is very frugal...you will probably get better than 25 mpg (us) and it has lots of torque for highway passing!
But also remember that you cannot buy a new one any more... unless there is US stock left over!

PeteInLongBeach

I love the diesel. Much better low-end torque than the gasoline version, not noticeably noisier, and I consistently get around 30 mpg (US) on my daily commute driving reasonably. Note: the fuel mileage display on the dash is about 10% low compared to actual calculation at the pump.

Minor downsides are special motor oil and Diesel Exhaust Fluid on the later models.

agepag

Thanks for the info, I'm looking at a 2009-2011 (11 if I can find a deal). There's a lot more to choose from in the US as opposed to Canada. I will keep me eye out for a good deal. Another question I have is the second row, do they all come with captain seats and a removable centre seat. The reason my wife likes this r wagon is because my daughter can walk through the middle to get to the back seats.
Thanks

PeteInLongBeach

The center seat option began in 2008, in addition to the removeable 2nd row console option or just captain chairs alone. If I recall correctly, the 2nd row center seat is not removeable in normal service - it folds down like the other 2 seats for cargo.

If you need access to the rear from the 2nd row, your best choice is the captain chairs alone or the removeable console option.

AsianR350

Yes, it is not removable in normal service but It can be removed.
If it can be installed then it can be removed.
It is held by 4 bolts under the plastic covers The seat belt is not anchored to the floor but it is attached to the seat.
Someone in this forum did add the center seat for his 06 or 07 R class.

PeteInLongBeach

Yes, of course. But, in context, it's not like pulling the handle on the removeable center console and removing it in a few seconds. You need tools and time, and it's not very light to handle.

houseofdiesel

Diesel, plus finding a gas one in Canada newer then 2008 will be a great challenge as most were diesel.
They all came with captain chairs in the second row, some had open space, some had a 7th seat in the middle but most have a center console that lifts right out. The third row is very spacious too, adults can sit there comfortably.

agepag

I might be getting a 2012 r350 blue tec next week if I like it, a bit high on the kms, 88,000, but the price seems good at $32,500

R320 Toronto

It's time for the truth....
The new diesels om642 (07 - 13) are not like the old one. The emission restrictions placed on this motor has made maintance expensive and frustrating.

Look up DPF replacement, clogged intake manifolds, injector replacement, limp home mode, glow plug hell, air filters that take an hour to change, special oils,oil keep clean change change change, and make sure you inform yourself about the oil filled EGR, CCV, and charge inter cooler ,,, as it's forced to eat its own oily soot.
It hates to idle and warm up on really cold days... It hates short city runs...They just clogg up internally with soot. And you need to have an "expert" to rip it all apart and clean it all up every 150,000km.
Invest in a STAR C3 or 4 diagnostic Cray super computer too.

Not to mention the $10k extra you dish out extra for that motor.
$10k will pay for a lot of high octane gas...
Crappy diesel fuel quality in North America and additives everywhere.
Besides the money you save in fuel we need for the bluetc fluid.
Now MB diesel 4... They should have done that instead of the v6.

So what if we work all day and fillup every night .... Octane 95 is still cheaper than milk..right?
And now cheaper than diesel.
You just need a herd of pregnant heifers to match the litres you need each week to fuel the 350.

The gas engine is cleaner runs better in the city, idles, and you get can get gas anywhere in the world that it likes. and in my opinion easier to maintain... If that stupid balance shaft sprocket don't eat itself. ... Balance shaft.... What Einstein engineer calculated this v6 angle. Probably never passed grade 7 geometry.

My R320 om642 gives me pleanty to worry about to get that 25mpg

With all that said my wife and kids love that silly car. And I chose it for all the same great reasons everyone else does. But... Make no mistake about it... The annual maintance for that Diesel engine alone ... Without warranty work... Is thousands that's more than one thousand more than a similar unit or minivan or honda minivan.

Believe me that om642 makes me earn the right to speak this way.
Watch www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV9rJwEOCus

I'm fussy and try to keep this 6000 lbs " w251 fat frowline" in excellent shape, always ready for a road trip... It is not a simple DIY motor and most mb dealers are thieves. Their mechanics in most mb shops are flat rate and are paid in bread and water... So they walk around your problem very slowly. (no matter which UPTOWN downtown shop you choose to call hell...) And child labour service advisors that give you nothing but silly looks making you feel you owe that car something.... Really... ???

Buy the Honda Odessey for the family and with all that extra money pick up something nice and sporty for yourself...

agepag

Thanks for the insight! I will continue to look and read as much as I can. As for the Odyssey, we have one right now and my wife is done with the mini vans according to her!

R320 Toronto

Boy! that sounds familiar!
My moto.. Happy Wife.... Happy Mercedes dealer!
I really do hear ya!

Pick one the family like as it really is suited as a family car.
Pick one with No AirMatic will save you money...
perhaps one with a little extended warranty until you get all your resources together,
Drive in City: get Gas - Drive lots of hyway: Diesel

If it's a diesel: make certain that it only received 229.51 based oils, get a cheap Autel scanner (Autel.us) like a 439 (http://www.autel.us/Products/al439.htm)
just to see if there are any codes... before you take ownership.

We'll be there to help ya out...

agepag

Thanks I appreciate it. I am wondering if I can buy extended warranty through MB? The R class I am looking at is now out of warranty, 2012 with 88,000 kms. The price is great for a 2012 if I can get it, so I may look into buying warranty

CedarMtn

2011 R350 Bluetec just over 95K Kms.

Great car - no experience with the gas version but am very happy with the diesel. Highway mileage is phenomenal for a car of this size (usually get 7.8 - 8 l/100 kms to cottage and back - 450 km round trip). Pulls boat with ease.

Winter performance is very good - no problems with cold weather performance or starting - even on the coldest days this winter. With Yakima Skybox on top still got 8.5 l/100 kms on ski trips to Collingwood and back.

City mileage does suck though - but then, this is a big vehicle. In City (Toronto) - I have been getting 13.5 - 16 l/100 kms this winter - that's for short trips with a lot of stops. Diesel in winter is more than regular gas - but in summer will drop back to being cheaper. Right now, it's about 5 cents/liter more than regular in Toronto. I have taken this car on a roadtrip to the Maritimes and never had a problem finding fuel. Highway cruising range is easily over 800 kms, so you have a lot of range between fills.

I did get the MB extended warranty (after reading this forum before purchase) and would recommend this for piece of mind.

PeteInLongBeach

With just a little care, I consistently see around 30 mpg for my regular daily commute, and 600 miles per tank is not unusual (if I was really careful I could squeeze almost 700 miles).

Notes:

• The dash mpg display is about 10% low when compared to manual computation from the pump/odometer. So, a display of 28 mpg would actually be almost 31 mpg when calculated.
• Because of diesel foaming, you can slowly & carefully squeeze in about 3 more gallons after the nozzle clicks off automatically. I figure the tank is actually about 24 gallons total.

efzauner

Some more comments: my 2008 diesel had 72K km on it when I got it on a lease. It was great at the time. But at 110Kkm or so it started getting rough. Rough idle and acceleration. Sometimes it is smooth and I don't know why it gets rough. House of Diesel talks about this mystery in one of his threads. It is also costly to repair. I don't pay for fuel so mileage is moot for me, but given the same choice, I would pick gas today. Too bad the V8 is no longer available.

It is coming off lease in Dec 2014 and I am not sure what to do. Buy it or dump it? Just got a new Odyssey for the wife to replace a 2002 with 285K flawless kilometers. Even at it's age the engine is smoother and quieter than the R. It just feels like I have this axe of a huge repair bill hanging over my head if I keep it. The Acura RDX is looking good.

houseofdiesel

Buy a newer one and enjoy...I have gotten 80 000kms trouble free on mine, it had a thick dealer file which I did not get to enjoy reading (dealer refused to let me look, just commented that the vehicle was always well serviced and never refused to repair or maintain it) it is now at 180kms, just had to replace the rear air springs and one shock, possibly a wheel bearing soon (summers just went on, could be tire noise). If you get a 2011/12 there will be plenty of worry free driving to be had, maybe not Honda Odyssey but then again it is so much more of a vehicle...I use mine thoroughly, it tows, it goes up to remote areas on ski trips in the dead of winter on harsh roads (the worst roads possible), it handles beyond my needs/dreams, it always has something in reserve when you need it to avoid another vehicle or get around something on a soft shoulder/broken pavement etc, no getting into trouble with this vehicle. Minivans, another story.
Yes you can incure some big repair bills, it is not a simple vehicle and you have to understand that. You also need to either maintain yourself and be attentive or have total trust in a mechanic that understands the vehicle, few do or care to. THis goes for most European cars on the road, they are all getting more complex and "throw away" not serviceable.

pedra

I have owned both versions, a 2006 R500 replaced by a 2012 R350 Bluetec.
The R500 was a great car to drive - but used plenty of gas round town. On trips to Florida from Canada averaged 22mpg (premium gas).
The 2012 diesel is a different proposition. The fuel mileage is great 32mpg from Canada to Florida, and at highway speeds all is quiet and refined.
Having the weight of massive iron block diesel in the front was noticeable at first, but now I am used to the handling difference.
One of the reasons to change other than fuel economy was the reliability (or lack thereof) of the R500. Numerous failed components and time spent in the repair shop, but overall as I said above, it was a great car.
The 2012 Bluetec has updated AMG wheels and other bits, navigation, camera, radar, golf tees, and the like, and most importantly an extended MB and dealer warranty.
I would not contemplate any high end expensive vehicle without an extended Company/Dealer warranty, particularly a MB.
Depends on your projected use. If you can find a fully warranted used R350 Bluetec then for long hauls it is recommended. For short haul/shopping/kids taxi work I would look at a smaller gas engined minivan or SUV.
Take into consideration that diesel fuel is smelly and most pumps are not clean so you will need to keep a pair of rubber or industrial gloves handy for filling up.