freewheel

hi

i know that's a common subject but as mine adresses a newer ( 2011 ) car and as the car is less ( one inch ) off i figured i would go for a new post....

i'm new to mercedes, just got the car used with 130 000 km on it, it's a 2011 bluetec 4 matic without airmatic ( still has air on the back ).

i'm still under waranty for an other 2 month or so but i need to figure what is the problem in order to direct the mecanics cause waranty is with a FORD dealership.......

so , symptomes : when car overnights on flat ground the rear left side is around one inch higher then the right side..... when i turn it on and drive, sometines it gets leveled and some times is stays that way, one inch diference, cant figure ( as i dont know what hight it's supposed to ride ) if it's one side that is to high or one side to low.......

got under the car, sensors are there and look physicaly ok, did not perform soap test on airstruts... no knowledge is they where replaced as the car is used.......but they seem fairly good..

from what i did read here and from my logic i would go ( if they are no leaks at all when ford cheks it ) i would go with the following diagnostic :

sensors ok, struts ok, compressor ok, defect valve block that allows air to flow from one side to the other ????

am i wrong, could i chek anything als ? what do i say the mecanics from ford to look for ?

ideally i would have them replace sensors, airstruts and valveblock under waranty but i'm probably dreaming......

josworth

99% of the time it is a leaking bag... the other stuff rarely fails. They may throw all kinds of sensors and stuff at it, because they don't see a leak, but to no avail.

That's what happened when I bought mine from a GMC dealer. After they kept failing, I decided to forego the warranty path and just do the coil spring conversion. That was years ago and so glad I did.....

Astrok

My experience with air suspension on my MB and BMW is the bags are the problem. Soap test is a waste of time and leads to a waste of money changing wrong parts. More of the bag is hidden form view then visible soap is useless and miss leading. Just change bags

freewheel

Soit from what you say. It's probably the one on the lower side leaking......I'll have them change it under warranty if I can.....I'll keep you posted....thanks

josworth

If your gonna get bags replaced.... like shocks, highly recommend it be done in pairs...

vanable

And if you end up with a rear air spring that you're going to just throw away, please let me know before you do so!

freewheel

no problem !!!! going to the garage next week

will update what they say they find...

freewheel

hi

latest update, problem solved ( i hope for good ).

had 300 km left on the 5000km waranty they give you when you buy a used car......went to a first ford dealer ( purchased the car originaly from a ford dealer far away from my place ) they sayed no, we dont have the special tool to work mercedes.....WTF..went to a second one, mutch nicer, they to the car in, send it directly to a mercedes dealer to get the problem fixed.......youhou paid a 100 base fee that's all !

turns out it was the air spring on the lower ( right ) side that had a slow leak.....car was actually riding LOWER on one side.....they changed the air spring ( i'm sorry i forgot to ask them to keep the damaged part ) and all is good !



QUESTION after changing an important part like airspring, do i need to ( i dont know the right english word for it ) realign, make the alignement, get the tracks paralelle again ???? you know fiddle around the wheells on a machine so that a 4 wheells are in the same track !!!!!



thanks

josworth

You don't need an alignment after a spring change. It should not affect the suspension geometry at all.

freewheel

and.....not fixed !!!!!!


shi......!

turns out, the car is still unbalaced in the back, from 10mm to 25mm diference between left and right suspension ......

some times more some times less......

mercedes garage say they checked balloons, compressor, sensors, all fine.....they say they did a calibration after changing the right balloon and it's all fine.....

but, diference in hight stays....some days 10mm some days a full inch, ......any ideas ??

might is be the eletronic valve ? might is be they just calibrated it poorely ?

how mutch diference between right and left is acceptable ?

thanks

this drives me nuts.......seems like unsovable problem, makes my 20k car unbalaced and worth no more in my eyes then a FFF tercel !

help

josworth

You may not like my advice...

Dump the air springs all together... Search here for thread regarding a coil spring swap. The European version of this car came with coils standard. You can swap in coils and lock in the sensors as stationary and never have to worry about it again.

We were chasing air bag issues... one afternoon in my garage with the help of a buddy and problem solved... she's been riding on coils for a while now and never miss the air bags.

freewheel

no i actually like your adwise !

it's been more and more tempting to consider the conversions since there seems to be no fixing possible for that FFFFF unbalanced suspension.

BUT i'm still under waranty for a few days so i would like very mutch them to fix it on there own time and money !!!!!

any ideas if it's normal that there is from half to one inch diference at all time.... does not seem to leak, just not leveled !!!

josworth

I don't know since we never really lived with the leveling air bags. It was shortly after we got it that I did the swap. Hopefully someone else on here that has lived with the bags can chime in.

turbocad6

how is it that you are determining that it's off level by as much as only 10mm? I mean even 25mm is fairly difficult to detect accurately, but being as accurate as 10mm is extremely difficult to determine without some specialized setup. you do realize that the level of the ground the vehicle is sitting on at all 4 corners will affect the measurements you take? are you making these measurements always at the same spot like where you park it at home?

do you realize that if the place where you are measuring the vehicle was truly level, then in order for the rear of one side to be Xmm higher, then the opposite side of the front must be a corresponding Xmm lower? if you are measuring someplace where you are seeing the front of the vehicle as being the same left to right, yet showing the rear as being off, then this means that either the place is not perfectly level, or the vehicle body itself is twisted, which is not too practical really.

by you saying that sometimes it is off by as little as only 10mm leads me to believe that you are not necessarily getting proper measurements under the proper conditions, especially without mentioning any discrepancies with the front, I would suggest that you take your measuring device with you as you drive the vehicle, then go to an open flat parking area and take several measurements at several different locations to get a better assessment as to exactly what may be off and by how much and that you measure all 4 corners each time. without taking actual 4 corner weight measurements it is nearly impossible for you to determine if one rear side is xmm too high or that the opposite front side is Xmm too low, I think at least part of what you are believing to be a problem is actually an improperly leveled sitting position wherever you are measuring it.

freewheel

nop sorry to desapoint you, even 10mm is a lot, and sitting in a flat garage ground is enought to determine if off or not, plus.......

mesured it on diferent spots, parking lots and places where road if not flat to the right OR to the left and : always same corner down ! did not bother mesuring front, not necesairy ! but your right front is also off on the oposite corner by probably the same amount..( or a little less depending on chassis strenght ).

you measure the tire clearence into the ( fender ?) tire passage on the back, it's of, it's precise and vissible even without measuring !

car is actually in the garage, they took it in and measured it on the thing they used to determine if a car is straight of bent ..... well, special thingy....

the rear right suspension is lower by a full inch according to them.

they send the car to a mercedes dealer that already spent one hour on it a could not find a reason for it, they look into it further.....

i'll keep you posted on that one ! the main problem is that i do pay for a mercedes SUV and drive around in a crappy focus loaner........grrrrr

freewheel

still not found : car is in the shop, they exchanged the tube from left to right and vice versa out of the electronic valve bloc to see if the problem shifts side...........BUT since they did the car is perfectly leveled !!!!!!

so they wait ..................

freewheel

update : mercedes ( proof that not all M workshops are great !! ) could not find a reason for that one inch diference despite the fact they took 6, yes 6 hours looking for it !!! can you believe it ??

so got my car back and a nice legal argument about who is going to pay....

but funny fact : today was really cold ( talking about minus 25 celcius ) AND the car got down a bit during night....as i drove it, is felt like diferent, when i checked, it was leveled !!!!! yep, the cold did something to it and now it's kind of leveled !

looks like the side that was higher is now the same mesurement then the other side ! car looks ok, drives ok ( stoped to pull to one side ) it's magical, i hope tomorow when the temp rises again ( around freezing point ) that stays leveled....

any ideas ??

freewheel

maybe a sensor that was giving fals information to the computer and due to the cold is now dead frozen ???

could is be so simple ?

mspencer

Had same issue couple years ago. I noticed one morning after the temperature had gotten down in in the teens that one side had dropped. When I cranked it up an it tried to level out the side that didn't drop was noticeable higher. I replaced the bag that dropped with one from Arnott then adjusted it so it would be level and all was good. Until about two months later when I noticed the other side had dropped. I replaced that one as well. I would recommend replacing both at same time. All has been well for couple years now. I found out that when mine would try to level out it only leveled front to back and not side to side. That is why you notice the one that didn't drop will be higher once it tries to level.

josworth

Things that make you go..... Hmmmm...

HawkBenz

I replaced my sensor and it rode level for about 2 days. Thought maybe I got a bad sensor, so I swapped it with the passenger side sensor. There was no change at all the driver was still low. I am definitely doing the coil swap.......once I get the part number deal figured out I also found another site that sells the Mercedes parts for the swap, gonna call them tomorrow.

freewheel

thanks guys for the input !

today temp is around freezing point and the car seems to stay more or less leveled ! : meaning less deference between left and right then before but not perfect !!!

i'm running crazy here ! do not have the money to do the coil swap !

i'm probably going to try the sensor swap thing to see what happens....but, here is a question worth asking :

ON a NON airmatic ( meaning air only on the back ) DOES the system level the car from left to right OR just levels the hole back ?? meaning is it if you deflate a ballon will the system level itself or do you need to use a computer at mercedes to level it by hand ??? and then the car only levels itself whole back at a time ??

mspencer

Mine is an 06 NON airmatic and it only levels front to rear. When I replaced my bags, I leveled it myself. After I put in new bag I started car to let it inflate. Then turned car off. Then I placed blocks( don't remember exact size at the moment) under the jack points on each side of rear. I then loosened the airlines at the distribution manifold located behind headlight on passenger side. I just loosened the line enough to let out air slowly. Once the rear of that side rested on the blocks, I tightened the line back and did the other side. Once that side was done, I loosened the other one again to make sure everything leveled out. I made sure both lines were tightened up and cranked the car and all was good. Just be sure the car is on level ground and you use the same size blocks on each side. This may not be the proper way but it worked for me. Hope this helps.

freewheel

hey thanks, THAT IS USEFULL !!!! i will use this trick next time it's unbalaced !

But i can not figure out how a system that does not take in consideration left right balance can stay leveled in time !

but that might just explain why the car remained unleveled even after mercedes changed the one balloon, is they did not perform any leveling task.

BUT if the car is only leveled front to back, then why are they 2 sensors, one on each side ??

why do this ****tards from mercedes not figure out ( first visit 2 hours, second visit 2 hours, second visit 6 hours..... ) how to level it and why do minus 25 celcius wheather levels the car ???

please, someone explain this airmatic madness to me ????? this is insane !

josworth

There are two sensors attached to the rear suspension.. The system adjusts air from side to side in order to keep the sensors in "center"...
It is a REALLY SIMPLE system. Two sensors, control block, air springs, compressor... the problem is the system is VERY prone to leaks therefore some owners are always chasing issues...

Kind of like the timing sprocket... some fail... others are fine...

Seriously... there are a TON of threads on the system and how to fix it. I read about the system for HOURS before trying to fix it myself....and we all know what I did... LOL