NdnMbLova

AS a quick sidenote- I'm very passionate about the older body styles from MB and always thought the W126 were bullet proof cars. In a few years(5-8) I will be looking to get one as a restoration car. Are these things worth it?

elolson

Well let me point out a small data point. Note that there are lots of posts on this forum but there are maybe 0 or 1 or 2 replies. Most folks here do not have the knowledge or tools to fix these cars let alone restore them. There are exceptions but you could probably count them on one hand. I have rebuilt engines and installed them. Yet I ended up taking my benz to a dealership to get fixed. That ought to say something about how they are to work on.

Tracing electrical ground problems, adjusting pressure sensitive FI components, pulling apart precision fit dashboards and body components takes training and that is not typically available. You'll drop thousands on all the little specialty tools that a dealership can make pay, but for you using once will never make up for it in the savings of doing it yourself vs. dealer cost per hour prices. Do you get what I am saying?

These cars new were for the wealthy. Most rich folk don't wrench on their own rides. Even with what I make today I could not afford my 380se in 1985 dollars paying with today's dollars and that goes for most. So there was not a lot of hot roding going on and pretty much zilch for after market parts. You need to find a good dealership that will not screw you. I heard somewhere that MB makes parts for 20 or 25 years. These cars are reaching the end of that right now and it shows for some of the things I have tried to get fixed. Parts are going to be a challenge.

So where is this all going. You pretty much need to be a fanatic about whatever particular model you are going to be obsessing over since it will end up being a fairly substantial commitment either in time (maybe in the many hundreds of hours) in learning how to work on it yourself or in money for someone else to do it for you (I bought the car for 6k and am now right at about 14k invested). Maybe the real takeaway is to buy carefully the right car to begin with or take it in the shorts as MB is a very unforgiving brand to get back up to spec as I have learned the hard way.

I have enjoyed the car when I have had it. MB still has that status. I am in my mid-30's and some of the old farts I work with are blown away that I own a Benz even though they own Lexus 430's that are way nicer in comparison. Go figure. I ended up with this model because I have an uncle who is an idiot and I would have to work at it to reach that high an IQ (long story). Go for the 560 models, they have more power and typically more options. When I pick this dude back up in a week I'll be down to getting the rims powder coated back to original grey and the upholstery. That last is a couple more grand that will cost me a wife if I keep at this. Remember that obsessive part I was talking about.

I intend for this to be a lesson. I will drive this car until I get cancer or it somehow disintegrates under me. This will be a reminder of all the stupid things I have ever done in my life like continuing to invest in the stock market these last 6mo.

Good luck and God bless as you will need it.

Mb56091

Yea since I started this tread I might as well add something about my 380se. Mine had 97000 miles when i bought it. Now it has 98k drives perfectly and today got a vent to change the direction of air replaced. I did a tune-up and had the shocks replaced. Really I needed only the usual maintenance and the replacement of some wires. The only issues I had was when I bought it because it had a hole under the wiper motor which let water flow into the car and then the ac's tube to let the water drip clogged letting water in the car again. Now it is a very solid car and is in near pristine condition. Actually it runs better than my 91 560sel which has a rough idle now.

elolson

Mb56091

Thanks for the update and checking in on your thread from time to time. It seemed liked a good place to put 380se info so I kept at it.

Glad to hear that your car is in fine condition. Does not appear that you drive yours much. Ahh rough idles . We all know how complicated that can end up being. Hopefully it is just something simple for you.

Take care.

Mb56091

Yea the 380se is a reliable car if its in good condition. Anyone see a 380sec- I've been looking for one, but its difficult to find any SEC prior to 86

Untertürkheim

They are very easy to find, although if you are not set on a 560, may I reccomend a Euro 500SEC...

NdnMbLova

Thanks for your quick reply elolson. One day ill get my hands on one or an SEC.

le fre

It is fascinating to read about your determination and progress - well done!
AGREED: A rough idle will drive me mad.
I'm like you in that I will not rest/give up untill my vehicles drive/run/operate perfectly and up to spec - and in 100% orig condition. I spend way more on them than they are worth - but its worth every cent - 'cause its a Benz.

I cant wait for you to get your car back - I'm thinking your idling issues might have a chance of being sorted out with new head gaskets, or what?

I have a '79 350SE Euro 120K miles on which I have spent one and a half times its value, as well as a 1984 280SE Euro 50k miles which is my current project - not much to do except a major service... and oh it idles so smooth...
Both are thistle green in colour in colour.

Keep up the good work!

elolson

OK rub it in Le Fre. I had pretty much solved the rough idle before the latest trip which was to stop oil leaks.

I picked the car up Saturday The bill was 180% of the quote. Needless to say a service manager got called in on his day off to explain a few things. He assured me that the service adviser would be experiencing a tough Monday. In the end they knocked off quite a bit, met me half way so to speak. This was my first experience with service here. The list is huge and I need to work right now so I will post the list later. But they did do both head gaskets. What pissed me off was that the top priority was to fix oil leaks. The car drips about a table spoon at each night with a leak at the drain plug bolt. This oversight is inexplicable as it did not drip even close to this amount before dropping it off. But a lot of work was done and the car is definitely coming to the end. We have put 300 miles on it so far and it drives very nice. The pan bolt can be fixed with a .45 nylon gasket from Ace. Then I intend to get the engine steam cleaned and assess the work (aka presence of drips).

Front and rear glass is waiting for me back in Tucson as are new speakers.

Will post the repair list when I get a chance.

Good luck with everyone's projects we all suffer together to enjoy our rides when we can. I will post pictures soon.

elolson

As promised here is the list. A few other details that have chapped my hide, charged twice for a piece of dash trim (126-680-86-39) charged twice for a power steering hose (000-997-47-52), thermostat was replaced and that was brand new from the first mechanic.

1) Both rear window sliding jaws replaced and attached to glass and repaired
2) De-carbon intake, replace fuel distrib mounting boot
3) Repaired a vacuum line in dash as well as an air pipe fitting.
4) Replaced mono-valve
5) New battery tray, new MB battery, they do look cool
6) Adjust washer nozzles
7) R&R power steering pump, replaced low side hose, double charged here.
8) R&R both head gaskets, this one hurt.
9) R&R wood trim on center console and on center dash, double charged here.
10) Removed and rodded radiator and reinstalled


Screw ups
1) Leaking oil drain plug bolt, this was not leaking when I dropped it off.
2) Radiator was not properly installed, all rubber mounting blocks were not installed, two clamps were hanging and one was missing, radiator was flopping around.
3) Missing a bolt on the power steering pump.
4) RHS lower corner of climate wood dash is not really secured.
5) I was not charged for the battery
6) Over charged on a few other items (wood and a hose)

Well, I guess the service is not as good as the parts I get from them. The guy was supposed to be good but based on 1-4 the work was sloppy. Wonder what else was horsed up.


Also, I had left two thermo vacuum valves in the car as well as two screws from a plastic speaker cover, those were gone. The thermo valves were about 70$ total.

I think another phone call is in order.

Tomorrow the car will be dropped off at the audio shop and the glass guys will be there to R&R front and rear glass. While the glass is out four new speakers will be installed and then new glass put back in.

What is left?
1) Exhaust system probably needs a complete overhaul. Other than the cat converter most parts look reasonable.
2) Repair the antenna cable
3) Blast and powder coat rims
4) More wood dash pieces. I have a bad feeling these are hard to come by but will give it a try.
5) Cruise control was acting fishy a few times on the way back from El Paso. Would not hold speed. An hour later it was fine. Also fine all day. Looks like a bad connection but who knows, I have not spent any time diagnosing.
6) Car died on a hard stop just coming off the interstate. Seems like the idle did not recover fast enough. I have seen this before, that is why I installed that shunt tube that did not good.

Chow for now, will keep the forum posted.

elolson

I just ordered the very last in the USA glove box zebrano wood veneer for this car. So if you were thinking about upgrading you can stop now.

Mb56091

Your 380 seems to have a lot of work going on. Well I had similar problems with mine before, but its always good to have a parts supplier and a good mechanic. I use Performance Products in California for all my parts. I also replaced the wood shift panel from them. I can't say it matches perfectly, but it looks much better. So far mine hasn't had any idle problems, but I just fixed tmy 560's idle problem. I simply changed the air slider valve or idle control valve as its called in the 380. As long as the car is running well its worth the expense.

elolson

Thanks for reading it has been a long haul. Ok latest in saga:

1) Upon closed inspection, all of my power steering hoses and the pump itself is original. Hmmm? I just got charged for all that. Lot's of sloppy work, missing nuts, trim screws, radiator was not fastened in the front, nor the condenser.

I have been trying to call the assistant service manager for 3 weeks, 1 week is phone tag, OK I get it , we are busy, 3 weeks is evasion. I sent a letter to Steve Hoy and Steve Fox, they appear to be the kids of the founders, we'll see what happens.

Moving on. I replaced the entire exhaust system! The bad news is that the rear muffler that came in was beat up pretty good so I refused it. The second one was worse. The local parts shop is trying to order another one. Bolted in pretty easy, I did have to buy a pack of metric crows feet to bolt in at the catalytic converter, but I did not mind More tools, is more tools!

Front and rear windshield are now installed as are the speakers, they sounds GREAT! Best money I spent was to get those old paper things out of there. Glass is also very nice and I stopped by to check that the metal mounting surface was thoroughly cleaned, it was.

OK so now the bad news. After bolting in the new cats I figured I'd double check the on/off ratio. I stuck in the multimeter, warmed up the car, plugged the canister purge connection, the needle wandered all over. The was just fixed. I fiddled with the mixture screw, mistake. Something is wrong, it is acting like a constant 50% ratio. I replaced the O2 sensor since I just assumed that the one I had installed had been soiled by a bad system. No way, made no difference, I did do a better job this time. Got the heat shrink on it and everything.

Checked the resistance at the 16deg C oil switch, 100ohms warmed up. I was so pissed off and disgusted I could not sleep that night and I stood out in the Tucson sun for hours staring at an engine. It was a dark moment. I guess I could check the throttle control switch, but just lost the heart.

I called yet another garage recommended on Mercedes shop forum, Craig's and set up an appointment for Thursday. I have installed a lot of parts, maybe this is just a small detail, I can not imagine anything major broken at this point, maybe the new ECM (lamda control module) is dead, unlikely but possible.

I did find a powder coating shop. I am having some airstream emblems redone and sandblasting is cheap. Also picked up a W126 made in the USA sun shade as well as the little mercedes valve stem caps. Bought them at the local dealership for 14$, 3$ less than the ones out of the performance products catalog

elolson

New exhaust is now completely installed. Also had the on/off ratio set by a shop with a 4 gas analyzer. Got some good tips from the guy about unheated O2 sensors. Turns out they may not work when idling when warmed up. They need the constant heat of steady high RPMs. Hmmm. So replacing the cats and also the replacements do not have the level of heat shielding that the OEM stuff probably caused by issues with the on-off ratio. I am going to measure today just to see where it ended up at.

Also had the rubber shift boot replaced and the rear passenger vent lever fixed. It had been kinked and snagged around the shifter by a previous R&R of one of the many mechanics that have now had their mitts in there. I did see that the rubber trim molding around the shifter lever indenture as pulled away in one corner, it was brand new and is a casualty of messing with it.

All oil leaks are now 100% plugged. Not a drip or drop anywhere.

I had the car aligned but it was not done properly and now the insides of the front tires are wearing, I'll have that re-done this morning as well as the wood dash trim piece installed for the glove box.

Pictures will be forthcoming.

elolson

Untertürkheim

Very nice! My hat is off to you!

elolson

Thank you. Mothers wax is the best shine, but OMG it is WORK, that wax takes some serious elbow grease to polish up.

A few more photos.

Untertürkheim

Once your car is where you want it, I would be very interested to know the fuel economy. I have heard that the 380 engine is very efficient on the highway.

elolson

I'll keep track over a few tanks to get a good average and let you know. I did not make it in to get an alignment, that has to be done before keeping track, probably less than a 1% difference, but it is hell on the tires.

We drove all over town today and were at a car show last night, got lots of looks and it turns heads. Of course I spent 5 hours detailing it, 3 of which was polishing that hard carnuba wax which seems to just want to bring me to my knees in submission. I vacuumed up all the little doodads left over from the glass install which covered the back deck. Also, when the mechanic took apart the center console that kicked up a bunch of junk and frankly it was just generally dirty inside after being in El Paso for 5 mo. Auto dealer car detailers are benign amateurs at best and destructive at worst when they get happy with the buffing wheel and take your paint down to the metal on the corners.

I keep looking under the car for leaks, but they are still all gone. not a drop drips from the bottom, that is an achievement to be proud of let me tell you. The car essentially drives very nice and smooth and everything works now. I do have that intermittent thing with the cruise control but I bet that is a cold solder joint as it is sporadic. I looked up programa's web site and they will take your OE and rebuild it for you. I traded in my OE lambda controller for a replacement and now wish I had kept the original. The best price I have found on the web is 205.00 for a rebuilt unit vs. 650 in the performanceproducts4benz catalogue.

I had some leather rubbing compound left over from the purchase of some Brooks bicycle seats. Great stuff, I worked it into the leather on the back seats liberally and skim coated the front seats. Not sure I want a bunch of oils worked into my wool dress slacks. I'll leave that on the back seats and wipe them down next weekend so that the oils soak into the leather.

This car is starting to be enjoyable now that it runs good with tight steering and all accessories function as they should. The Alpine speakers sound good through the reman Becker radio. I do need to resplice the antenna cable.

More to come...

elolson

Anderson powder coating in Tucson will do the wheels for 65$ each. The emblems they did came out amazing. Does anybody know what the factory MB grey paint code is?

I used epoxy to glue back together the wood trim under the instrument cluster, the long thin piece that goes over toward the center console was pulling apart. That was yesterday that stuff did an amazing job there is no way that wood is coming back up.

elolson

Alignment has been done. Mechanic said only a minor adjustment was necessary to bring it exactly onto the MB recommended spec. The car has done a good job of wearing off the insides of both front tires and yes they were properly inflated. Falken SN-706 sinceras. Junk tires but they came with the car when I bought it, there were not OEM. Mechanic said being cheaper tires their sidewalls are not very strong for a big heavy car, he suspected that was a contributor to what is clearly abnormal wear.

Tires were rotated and refrigerant pressure was checked and found to be perfect.

Car is running very nice. Will fill up tomorrow and start the MPG test for Untertürkheim.

Untertürkheim

Just to have all available info for the test:

What oil and spark plugs are you using?

Are you running high speed tire pressure, or regular, and are the tires OEM 205/70/14?

elolson

Kendall 20-50 non-synthetic
30PSI all the way around checked with a digital gauge
P205/70R14 Falken SN-706 Sincera which I believe are no longer available at least in the US. Based on tire wear I have observed, I can not recommend this tire.
Bosch copper electrode plugs.

I am running 87 octane fuel and as this is Tucson, the AC is on pretty much on all the time. These will all be city miles.

Mb56091

You're using 87 octane? I'm not sure that's the right gas. Mine says premium inside the gas tank cover and my 560sel says 91 octane in the manual. I live in NJ so i use 10w-40 AGIP. I put Bosch Platinum spark plugs and the car seems to run fine. I prefer chrome rims, but i recently repainted my c class's rims. Wurth silver lacquer seems to be a pretty close match as its used on German cars and Posche rims also match that paint well. My tires are Toyo which came when I bought the car. It has some wear only in the front because tie rods were replaced and it took awhile to get the alignment. My gas economy is similar to my 85 toyota v6 so it isn't that bad. Those two pics are my 380se

elolson

Thanks for checking. However, a 380se is not a 560. The compression ration is only 8.3:1 and the owners manual clearly states 87 octane. Very good info on the colors and wheels, I very much appreciate the input. Your cars sound very nice and well cared for. I check out the chrome plated wheels now and then but will probably stick with the factory paint scheme.

I know what you mean on the alignment. I have not had good luck with alignment over the years, it seems like the factory is the only place where they can get this right. I think wear is a big factor. The only used vehicle I ever claimed success with is my 1976 Chevy pick-up and I replaced every single suspension component on it including control arm bushings that had to be machine pressed, all other rubber bushings, tie-rod ends, pitman arm, you name it. It has been perfect ever since. I suspect that normal wear prevents alignments from holding and working as good as you would like them to due to slop in the steering system.

It is not generally well known that you should in fact run the lowest octane you can get away with as the lower the octane the higher the energy content. High compression engines make up for lower energy content by the much higher efficiency gains to be had by having combustion occur at a higher compression ratio.

A few days ago, I got into the car and it ran just awful. Seemed like a single cylinder was missing. I dropped it off at Craig's and it turned out to be a 4-way vacuum T had cracked and broken, they originally feared the worst that it might be a fuel distributor, glad it was not. Craig mentioned that he thought the injector seals were leaking ever so slightly. Scheduled for next week.

Since it was at the shop, there was no reason to waste the trip I had the glove box wood installed and the turn signal replaced as the high/low beam did not work all that good. I am not impressed with the replacement, it is supposed to be a factory item but the look and feel is not as solid as the original. So, if you can rebuild the one you have I would recommend it. Also had them check the engine mounts and engine shock absorbers. They were wearing but not yet ready for replacement.

As I need to take it back to them to add the suspension stops to the shock absorbers, I had them order the wood for the ashtray since mine is starting to separate. The glove box wood looks fantastic! I'll post some pics.

About 40% of a tank and 160 miles or so, don't worry, I have not forgotten to keep track. Just have not driven much as I was out of town.