Ongoing Maintenance and Repair for a 2003 S600.
02-03-2017, 10:41 AM
#251
Super Member
I did. They work ok for ball joints but not bushing. 
I ended up going to the dealer for the bushing.
I ended up going to the dealer for the bushing.
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Welwynnick (02-03-2017)
02-03-2017, 05:32 PM
#253
MBWorld Fanatic!
I sure have. I might be able to help you. There are some ground rules with turbos:
Modern turbos are generally robust, and the M275 turbos are particularly well protected.
When a turbo fails, its usually due to an external reason, such as inadequate lubrication or cooling. When you replace or rebuild a turbo, you have to fix the cause, otherwise they'll fail again.
With twin turbo engines, if one turbo fails, the other will usually be close behind. They should be treated as a pair - you don't want them working out of balance.
Turbo rebuild kits are cheap and readily available. A surprisingly small number of kits service the majority of turbos. When I rebuilt mine, there were no kits available, but some people have figured it out now.
Turbos do have seals, but they're not oil seals in the usual sense. They're like piston rings, and are there to keep the high pressure exhaust and charge air out of the center housing, oil chamber and hence crankcase.
Oil is kept away from the "piston rings" by oil thrower rings - nothing else - so long as the centre housing doesn't flood with oil.
V12 turbos have compressor wheels balanced separately, so you don't have to re-balance them when you re-assemble.
The compressor wheel nuts are tightened anti-clockwise, and to a very low and exacting torque. You'll need a special torque wrench (but surprisingly few other special tools).
Nick
Modern turbos are generally robust, and the M275 turbos are particularly well protected.
When a turbo fails, its usually due to an external reason, such as inadequate lubrication or cooling. When you replace or rebuild a turbo, you have to fix the cause, otherwise they'll fail again.
With twin turbo engines, if one turbo fails, the other will usually be close behind. They should be treated as a pair - you don't want them working out of balance.
Turbo rebuild kits are cheap and readily available. A surprisingly small number of kits service the majority of turbos. When I rebuilt mine, there were no kits available, but some people have figured it out now.
Turbos do have seals, but they're not oil seals in the usual sense. They're like piston rings, and are there to keep the high pressure exhaust and charge air out of the center housing, oil chamber and hence crankcase.
Oil is kept away from the "piston rings" by oil thrower rings - nothing else - so long as the centre housing doesn't flood with oil.
V12 turbos have compressor wheels balanced separately, so you don't have to re-balance them when you re-assemble.
The compressor wheel nuts are tightened anti-clockwise, and to a very low and exacting torque. You'll need a special torque wrench (but surprisingly few other special tools).
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; 02-04-2017 at 11:17 AM.
02-03-2017, 08:37 PM
#254
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2009 E350 4M Avantgarde;mistress 2002 S600; wife 2014 C300 4M
Man, I really like your enthusiasm to take things apart (at our age), but, your MY2003 looks to me to be more trouble than my now 15 year old MY 2002 NA.
Anyways - love these oldies.
At this point I wait for things to fail before I do anything - but although I have a garden shed full of spare parts, I haven't really used anything substantial.
Car is now at 10 000km/62 000 miles.
BTW: what happened to hoaz? I miss his reports!
Anyways - love these oldies.
At this point I wait for things to fail before I do anything - but although I have a garden shed full of spare parts, I haven't really used anything substantial.
Car is now at 10 000km/62 000 miles.
BTW: what happened to hoaz? I miss his reports!
Last edited by kraut56; 02-03-2017 at 08:39 PM.
02-03-2017, 08:55 PM
#255
Man, I really like your enthusiasm to take things apart (at our age), but, your MY2003 looks to me to be more trouble than my now 15 year old MY 2002 NA.
Anyways - love these oldies.
At this point I wait for things to fail before I do anything - but although I have a garden shed full of spare parts, I haven't really used anything substantial.
Car is now at 10 000km/62 000 miles.
BTW: what happened to hoaz? I miss his reports!
Anyways - love these oldies.
At this point I wait for things to fail before I do anything - but although I have a garden shed full of spare parts, I haven't really used anything substantial.
Car is now at 10 000km/62 000 miles.
BTW: what happened to hoaz? I miss his reports!
02-04-2017, 04:25 AM
#256
MBWorld Fanatic!
Man, I really like your enthusiasm to take things apart (at our age), but, your MY2003 looks to me to be more trouble than my now 15 year old MY 2002 NA.
Anyways - love these oldies.
At this point I wait for things to fail before I do anything - but although I have a garden shed full of spare parts, I haven't really used anything substantial.
Car is now at 10 000km/62 000 miles.
BTW: what happened to hoaz? I miss his reports!
Anyways - love these oldies.
At this point I wait for things to fail before I do anything - but although I have a garden shed full of spare parts, I haven't really used anything substantial.
Car is now at 10 000km/62 000 miles.
BTW: what happened to hoaz? I miss his reports!
I bought my cheap, high mileage, silver S600TT as a challenge, to see if it could be owner-maintained. Turned out it could, but almost everything did go wrong - only problem I never suffered was stuck in park (though I bought an ally interlock lever anyway). I have a long list that I keep up to date to make sure I don't forget any of it. It's a good read.
My second, black TT was intended to replace the silver one, and it's been very little trouble - I repaired one coil pack, one ABC hose and a couple of ball joints. However, I will probably keep the silver and sell the black one. Does that sound perverse?
I've always done my own maintenance, but the V12TT challenge made me look for help, and I bought an old 4-post car lift and installed it in my garage, to make life easier. It's a bit extreme, and I can't imagine many other home mechanics would go to such lengths.
Nick
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turbonos7 (09-10-2019)
02-04-2017, 01:19 PM
#257
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2009 E350 4M Avantgarde;mistress 2002 S600; wife 2014 C300 4M
Yes, other than that darn oil cooler that I had to replace a few years ago (a true PIA job, as I had to do it in the driveway, pulling the heads etc.), other than brakes and tires really nothing major, left door control module from my garden shed, and I have to plan for this spring the duo valve for the rear air conditioning.
I also will have to look into a new rather massive battery drain problem; although the battery tests "good", I will swap it with the one from my E350.
We'll see.
Oh, forgot to mention the front two mounts of the rear axle subframe; about $ 1000.00.
I also will have to look into a new rather massive battery drain problem; although the battery tests "good", I will swap it with the one from my E350.
We'll see.
Oh, forgot to mention the front two mounts of the rear axle subframe; about $ 1000.00.
Last edited by kraut56; 02-04-2017 at 01:57 PM.
02-04-2017, 02:04 PM
#258
MBWorld Fanatic!
The other thing is probably the alternator regulator. I'd like to find a good test and a good source of parts for that. My silver car has a heavy parasitic drain (about 100mA) and I might disconnect the alternator to see if that changes anything. That would be another challenging job.
Nick
02-04-2017, 02:16 PM
#259
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2009 E350 4M Avantgarde;mistress 2002 S600; wife 2014 C300 4M
At this point the car is in winter storage, and I can't work on it there.
The good part preparing for it is that I purchased from Germany a "clamp on multimeter", that reads from 400A down to 40mA DC.
With that I believe I will be able to nail it down. Last winter I had the car in storage, and in over 4 weeks the battery would go down 50% (very good).
Last summer things went south, and I have to look into
a) CAN bus not shutting down due to either non-existing cradle phone, Tele-Aid trying to dial out over non-existing phone, anti-theft alarm system not working (I changed the alarm horn due to dead battery).
b) Other drain to any of the SAMs.
I will report when the weather here gets better - about end of March - early April.
The good part preparing for it is that I purchased from Germany a "clamp on multimeter", that reads from 400A down to 40mA DC.
With that I believe I will be able to nail it down. Last winter I had the car in storage, and in over 4 weeks the battery would go down 50% (very good).
Last summer things went south, and I have to look into
a) CAN bus not shutting down due to either non-existing cradle phone, Tele-Aid trying to dial out over non-existing phone, anti-theft alarm system not working (I changed the alarm horn due to dead battery).
b) Other drain to any of the SAMs.
I will report when the weather here gets better - about end of March - early April.
03-01-2017, 10:30 AM
#260
I sure have. I might be able to help you. There are some ground rules with turbos:
Modern turbos are generally robust, and the M275 turbos are particularly well protected.
When a turbo fails, its usually due to an external reason, such as inadequate lubrication or cooling. When you replace or rebuild a turbo, you have to fix the cause, otherwise they'll fail again.
With twin turbo engines, if one turbo fails, the other will usually be close behind. They should be treated as a pair - you don't want them working out of balance.
Turbo rebuild kits are cheap and readily available. A surprisingly small number of kits service the majority of turbos. When I rebuilt mine, there were no kits available, but some people have figured it out now.
Turbos do have seals, but they're not oil seals in the usual sense. They're like piston rings, and are there to keep the high pressure exhaust and charge air out of the center housing, oil chamber and hence crankcase.
Oil is kept away from the "piston rings" by oil thrower rings - nothing else - so long as the centre housing doesn't flood with oil.
V12 turbos have compressor wheels balanced separately, so you don't have to re-balance them when you re-assemble.
The compressor wheel nuts are tightened anti-clockwise, and to a very low and exacting torque. You'll need a special torque wrench (but surprisingly few other special tools).
Nick
Modern turbos are generally robust, and the M275 turbos are particularly well protected.
When a turbo fails, its usually due to an external reason, such as inadequate lubrication or cooling. When you replace or rebuild a turbo, you have to fix the cause, otherwise they'll fail again.
With twin turbo engines, if one turbo fails, the other will usually be close behind. They should be treated as a pair - you don't want them working out of balance.
Turbo rebuild kits are cheap and readily available. A surprisingly small number of kits service the majority of turbos. When I rebuilt mine, there were no kits available, but some people have figured it out now.
Turbos do have seals, but they're not oil seals in the usual sense. They're like piston rings, and are there to keep the high pressure exhaust and charge air out of the center housing, oil chamber and hence crankcase.
Oil is kept away from the "piston rings" by oil thrower rings - nothing else - so long as the centre housing doesn't flood with oil.
V12 turbos have compressor wheels balanced separately, so you don't have to re-balance them when you re-assemble.
The compressor wheel nuts are tightened anti-clockwise, and to a very low and exacting torque. You'll need a special torque wrench (but surprisingly few other special tools).
Nick
Awesome, thank you for the information. I plan to start in on this in the next couple of weeks and will drop the subframe to get to them. Since there aren't rebuild kits available do you happen to have a list of the parts needed, or a link to that information? Any help is appreciated.
03-01-2017, 02:03 PM
#261
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yes, there are rebuild kits available, and they're cheap - search for "mercedes v12 turbo rebuild kit".
It's a generic KKK K24 rebuild kit, like many ordinary cars, but there's one critical piece of information you need to need to know.
It's a small bearing K24 turbo, not a large bearing K24 turbo. I had to figure it out the hard way, but that's all you need to know, and it's for free.
You can't get 360 degree thrust bearings by the way.
Nick
It's a generic KKK K24 rebuild kit, like many ordinary cars, but there's one critical piece of information you need to need to know.
It's a small bearing K24 turbo, not a large bearing K24 turbo. I had to figure it out the hard way, but that's all you need to know, and it's for free.
You can't get 360 degree thrust bearings by the way.
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; 03-01-2017 at 02:11 PM.
03-01-2017, 09:52 PM
#262
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2009 E350 4M Avantgarde;mistress 2002 S600; wife 2014 C300 4M
At this point the car is in winter storage, and I can't work on it there.
The good part preparing for it is that I purchased from Germany a "clamp on multimeter", that reads from 400A down to 40mA DC.
With that I believe I will be able to nail it down. Last winter I had the car in storage, and in over 4 weeks the battery would go down 50% (very good).
Last summer things went south, and I have to look into
a) CAN bus not shutting down due to either non-existing cradle phone, Tele-Aid trying to dial out over non-existing phone, anti-theft alarm system not working (I changed the alarm horn due to dead battery).
b) Other drain to any of the SAMs.
I will report when the weather here gets better - about end of March - early April.
The good part preparing for it is that I purchased from Germany a "clamp on multimeter", that reads from 400A down to 40mA DC.
With that I believe I will be able to nail it down. Last winter I had the car in storage, and in over 4 weeks the battery would go down 50% (very good).
Last summer things went south, and I have to look into
a) CAN bus not shutting down due to either non-existing cradle phone, Tele-Aid trying to dial out over non-existing phone, anti-theft alarm system not working (I changed the alarm horn due to dead battery).
b) Other drain to any of the SAMs.
I will report when the weather here gets better - about end of March - early April.
HHMMNNN:
I had when I stored the car removed the battery, and in my garage charged it with my NOCO 7200 intelligent charger. it then tested ok.
After now 10 weeks I connected my (100A 10sec) battery tester, and the battery went south. I believe a lead acid battery not connected to anything as open cell should keep the charge easily for 6 month. Even in-store new batteries are fully charged, and have sticker to recharge them only after about a year.
I'll be back to the store where I purchased it.
Stay tuned!
03-09-2017, 04:04 PM
#263
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2009 E350 4M Avantgarde;mistress 2002 S600; wife 2014 C300 4M
update
That seems to be a recurring problem with the W220. Partly it's down to the number of ECU's that have to be kept awake, which Mercedes appear to acknowledge by fitting two batteries to the W221.
The other thing is probably the alternator regulator. I'd like to find a good test and a good source of parts for that. My silver car has a heavy parasitic drain (about 100mA) and I might disconnect the alternator to see if that changes anything. That would be another challenging job.
Nick
The other thing is probably the alternator regulator. I'd like to find a good test and a good source of parts for that. My silver car has a heavy parasitic drain (about 100mA) and I might disconnect the alternator to see if that changes anything. That would be another challenging job.
Nick
Let it sit in the garage (not connected) for 6 weeks, and on retest the tester said 12.58 v, but after 10 secs 8.5 v - failed.
Brought it to the sales store, where their fancy tester said: "battery does not meet industry standard - replace".
They gave me a new one for free.
Guess I will just forget about battery drain for now and just try the new one.
What still baffles me is that that battery passed the test before.
You always learn.
03-10-2018, 06:37 PM
#264
Super Member
This seems like the most informative ABC thread i've read, neither I or the dealer have been able to find the part number for the ABC hose that's leaking. Perhaps someone in here can chime in.
it runs infront of the subframe, both hoses are leaking, they're wrapped in some thick fat rubber
it runs infront of the subframe, both hoses are leaking, they're wrapped in some thick fat rubber
03-21-2018, 06:44 PM
#265
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S600 (W220)
Are you sure that they are ABC? They could be steering. MB uses a dual pump that does both. Take a look at the sites below for potential part numbers / diagrams.
ABC
https://www.ilcats.ru/mercedes/?func...70&language=en
PS
https://www.ilcats.ru/mercedes/?func...=1&language=en
Good Luck
ABC
https://www.ilcats.ru/mercedes/?func...70&language=en
PS
https://www.ilcats.ru/mercedes/?func...=1&language=en
Good Luck
03-21-2018, 07:57 PM
#266
Super Member
Are you sure that they are ABC? They could be steering. MB uses a dual pump that does both. Take a look at the sites below for potential part numbers / diagrams.
ABC
https://www.ilcats.ru/mercedes/?func...70&language=en
PS
https://www.ilcats.ru/mercedes/?func...=1&language=en
Good Luck
ABC
https://www.ilcats.ru/mercedes/?func...70&language=en
PS
https://www.ilcats.ru/mercedes/?func...=1&language=en
Good Luck
Hey, yeah sorry forgot to note that this is on my SL600, that is indeed the ABC expansion line, that goes from the pump to the high pressure line that snakes under the engine and trans. It took a week for someone to recognize it and gave me the part number to buy, stupid hose is $350!!! gahhhh
05-24-2018, 03:34 AM
#267
Senior Member
I'm just starting the ABC Hose replacement adventure...
A front abc hose leaked, it might be the ABC line from front passenger side strut to...pump. since only that side sunk.
Can I remove the V-belt, pulley of the ABC Pump and with the reservoir filled somewhat, turn the pump clockwise to get fluid to leak out of where it burst?
So I can determine it's that hose for sure. Since there is hydraulic oil everywhere and coated the damper (hose that goes nowhere), want to make sure it wasn't that harder hose to replace..
A front abc hose leaked, it might be the ABC line from front passenger side strut to...pump. since only that side sunk.
Can I remove the V-belt, pulley of the ABC Pump and with the reservoir filled somewhat, turn the pump clockwise to get fluid to leak out of where it burst?
So I can determine it's that hose for sure. Since there is hydraulic oil everywhere and coated the damper (hose that goes nowhere), want to make sure it wasn't that harder hose to replace..
08-17-2018, 01:11 PM
#268
Coolant should be replaced every 150kmiles/240kkm or 15 years which comes earlier.
This S600 has 85kmiles/136kkm and 10 years, taking the following factors into consideration, I decide to replace the coolant:
- This winter temperature hit -22f/-30c last month;
- Refresh the anti corrosion will help to protect the engine.
Fluid:
- MB antifreeze x 2: BQ 1 03 0002 (MB 325.0)
- Distilled water: 8 liters
Procedure:
- Mix coolant 1:1 with distilled water. The mixed coolant won't freeze until -30f/-34c;
- Drive front on ramp, apply parking and block rear wheels;
- Remove middle and front under engine panelings;
- Locate radiator drain screw on driver side and drain the coolant, see picture 1, the screw is the red one which can be turned by hand, so no tools needed;
- After draining re-tighten the screw. It's a pleasure to use the screw to drain or stop, nice design and very convenient;
- M275 holds 12.21 liters and I Got more than 10 liters out from the radiator. Good enough so I didn't drain the engine block.
- Old fluid is clear but has some white deposit;
- To refill coolant, I disconnect the windshield washer heater and use the two hoses to help;
- Apply vacuum from one washer heater hose and use the other one to suck coolant in;
- After there is no vacuum effect anymore, re-connect the washer heater hoses;
- Pour more coolant into the coolant expansion tank;
- Idel the car till the engine reach working temperature, monitor coolant temperature and level. Add coolant if needed;
- Rev engine to higher rpm to push air out. Check coolant level, add coolant if needed;
- Stop engine and check for any coolant leakage. Then put back the under engine panelings;
- Drive and monitor engine temperature. Check coolant level, add coolant if needed.
Cost:
- Coolant: $45 for two bottles;
- Distilled water: $2 for two 4L bottles;
- 1 hour spent.
This S600 has 85kmiles/136kkm and 10 years, taking the following factors into consideration, I decide to replace the coolant:
- This winter temperature hit -22f/-30c last month;
- Refresh the anti corrosion will help to protect the engine.
Fluid:
- MB antifreeze x 2: BQ 1 03 0002 (MB 325.0)
- Distilled water: 8 liters
Procedure:
- Mix coolant 1:1 with distilled water. The mixed coolant won't freeze until -30f/-34c;
- Drive front on ramp, apply parking and block rear wheels;
- Remove middle and front under engine panelings;
- Locate radiator drain screw on driver side and drain the coolant, see picture 1, the screw is the red one which can be turned by hand, so no tools needed;
- After draining re-tighten the screw. It's a pleasure to use the screw to drain or stop, nice design and very convenient;
- M275 holds 12.21 liters and I Got more than 10 liters out from the radiator. Good enough so I didn't drain the engine block.
- Old fluid is clear but has some white deposit;
- To refill coolant, I disconnect the windshield washer heater and use the two hoses to help;
- Apply vacuum from one washer heater hose and use the other one to suck coolant in;
- After there is no vacuum effect anymore, re-connect the washer heater hoses;
- Pour more coolant into the coolant expansion tank;
- Idel the car till the engine reach working temperature, monitor coolant temperature and level. Add coolant if needed;
- Rev engine to higher rpm to push air out. Check coolant level, add coolant if needed;
- Stop engine and check for any coolant leakage. Then put back the under engine panelings;
- Drive and monitor engine temperature. Check coolant level, add coolant if needed.
Cost:
- Coolant: $45 for two bottles;
- Distilled water: $2 for two 4L bottles;
- 1 hour spent.
- Apply vacuum from one washer heater hose and use the other one to suck coolant in;
- After there is no vacuum effect anymore, re-connect the washer heater hoses;" Not sure what the windshield washer heater hose has to do with the coolant system? Thoughts/clarification?
Last edited by Sebmel123; 08-17-2018 at 01:38 PM.
08-20-2018, 09:55 AM
#269
Senior Member
Windshield Washer fluid is heated
The windshield washer fluid is heated by circulating some of the engine’s antifreeze/coolant through the washer fluid reservoir in a closed loop. It’s a feature in these cars to help keep washer fluid from freezing. Very helpful in wicked cold temps so that the water doesn’t hit the windshield or headlights and flash freeze.
If you take off the washer fluid reservoir fill cap and look inside the reservoir, you will see a metal tube loop inside. Follow the tube’s ends out of the reservoir through the other cap and you will find the lines he was talking about.
So he is taking advantage of the easy access to these lines to refill the coolant in the engine.
If you take off the washer fluid reservoir fill cap and look inside the reservoir, you will see a metal tube loop inside. Follow the tube’s ends out of the reservoir through the other cap and you will find the lines he was talking about.
So he is taking advantage of the easy access to these lines to refill the coolant in the engine.
08-21-2018, 07:11 PM
#270
Well, flush and refill was completed but still have the coolant see workshop warning light on. Does anyone know where the coolant temp sensor is and if there is a lot to it?
Last edited by Sebmel123; 08-21-2018 at 09:09 PM.
09-21-2018, 05:38 PM
#271
Senior Member
I'm just starting the ABC Hose replacement adventure...
A front abc hose leaked, it might be the ABC line from front passenger side strut to...pump. since only that side sunk.
Can I remove the V-belt, pulley of the ABC Pump and with the reservoir filled somewhat, turn the pump clockwise to get fluid to leak out of where it burst?
So I can determine it's that hose for sure. Since there is hydraulic oil everywhere and coated the damper (hose that goes nowhere), want to make sure it wasn't that harder hose to replace..
A front abc hose leaked, it might be the ABC line from front passenger side strut to...pump. since only that side sunk.
Can I remove the V-belt, pulley of the ABC Pump and with the reservoir filled somewhat, turn the pump clockwise to get fluid to leak out of where it burst?
So I can determine it's that hose for sure. Since there is hydraulic oil everywhere and coated the damper (hose that goes nowhere), want to make sure it wasn't that harder hose to replace..
Can anyone confirm that the "ABC Hose that goes nowhere" (the one that makes a U turn) can be replaced by removing the fan + Poly V Belt + Pulley on the Pump and remove it from the Front versus needing to left the engine up,etc... ??
09-22-2018, 04:28 AM
#272
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yes you can. Your method is possible but difficult. You need a good, fine tooth, 3/8 ratchet, and it will take out several knuckles.
The best way is to push a socket upwards through the plastic cover above the forward / lower / diagonal suspension arm bush.
Use a stack of extensions and a universal joint with tape around it to keep the socket steady.
It's easier but not essential to remove the suspension arm itself.
Then it's a doddle. You can put a breaker bar or torque wrench on it then.
Nick
The best way is to push a socket upwards through the plastic cover above the forward / lower / diagonal suspension arm bush.
Use a stack of extensions and a universal joint with tape around it to keep the socket steady.
It's easier but not essential to remove the suspension arm itself.
Then it's a doddle. You can put a breaker bar or torque wrench on it then.
Nick
07-01-2022, 08:09 PM
#274
Okay I understand the value of maintenance, however I have an issue with a leaking hose and I am told that it happens to be the most difficult hose to fix, requiring the engine to be lifted up etc.
07-02-2022, 05:15 AM
#275
MBWorld Fanatic!
Lifting the engine isn't a big deal. Carefully support the engine sump with a large block of wood, undo the engine mount on the right side (drivers view) and lift the engine an inch. That will just about give you access to the hose fittings.
Removing the engine is a much bigger deal.
The first time I disconnected the hoses from the pump it was very difficult, but the extension shaft past the suspension arm trick is easy. Getting the banjo bolt back in is tricky, so allow yourself plenty of time and patience.
You will need to do something about it, though.
Nick
Removing the engine is a much bigger deal.
The first time I disconnected the hoses from the pump it was very difficult, but the extension shaft past the suspension arm trick is easy. Getting the banjo bolt back in is tricky, so allow yourself plenty of time and patience.
You will need to do something about it, though.
Nick
