engindin

Hello,
last week i have noticed wobble on my belt tensioner, did quick examine and found that has big cracks on belt and belt tensioner was noisy.(87k) So i decided to change belt tensioner, idler pulley and the belt. I received the parts but while changing i have noticed strange noise from water pump. Anyhow after changing the parts everything is ok and much silent. I read many threads about water pump, but i dont want to waste my money also. Can you help me guys is this noise from water pump is normal or sign of any failure?


https://*******/lk29

wallyp

Not normal, not good. The rotation should be smooth and silent, with slight drag. There should be no free play of any type in the shaft. It sounds as if your pump bearings are dry and worn. I would replace the pump ASAP.

engindin

I ordered new and parked the car until new water pump arrives, planing to do flushing at the same time. Thanks Wallyp.

engindin

Thanks,
I changed the water pump and did coolant flush also. Coolant was so dirty making me to think that was the killer of the water pump.

But the wobble on my belt tensioner is still there and it is getting worse with adding new noises to orchestra.

My next suspect was power steering pump, i flush the ps fluid with oem one but nothing changed. I used mechanic's stethoscope, alternator and ps pump is very noisy.

My engine is M112 I read that harmonic balancer(vibration damper) can be problem, i inspect the rubber and it looks in very good condition.

I record the video for the wobble, do you have any suggestion, where should i start to investigate?

https://*******/oed6

By the way, no pulley have a play or making any sound while the belt is removed.

lganski

There should be no wobble in any of the devices which are belt driven. If they do, they are on their way out and it is only a matter of time. I only have the AC Compressor to do now which I will change next week. All are silent now.

engindin

i changed the harmonic balancer, after three failure i did one tool like this,




that bolt in the middle of pulley was a funny one, anyway the wobble and noise still there. I realize that when i turn head lights on, or when i turn the steering wheel, noise increase. I think little drop on rev make this.

Those parts are changed so far;

Belt tensioner
Belt pulley
Water Pump
Harmonic Balancer

my next suspect is Power steering pump.

engindin

Yes, that was the power steering pump, luckily found used one from ebay around 100$, changed and knocking noise is gone. i did not changed the oil tank but heard that it has filter inside. so i will also change it soon.

However steering now is a bit different, is my steering rack faulty and can steering rack damage pump? i dont know how to check steering rack so lets see what will happen after some mileage.

lganski

Did you purge the air out of the steering rack after changing the pump. Jack up the front of the car and with the ignition off turn the steering wheel lock to lock around 10 times. That should take care of any air in the system. I replaced my pump and purged like above and the system was completely normal.

tusabes

The used pump you bought was probably bad , that's why it feels different

Get a new pump on Rockauto.com very cheap

engindin

Iganski,
Yes, i purged. i wanted to be at safe site so may be i did around 40-45 turn.
Tusabes,
Surprisingly its the cheapest so far, i need to count shipping also, will check it thanks.

Meanwhile I did 300km long test run, no problems, but belt tensioner wobbles again, with a little noise, it can not be heard if you dont bent there and listen, but i am afraid that wobble is causing
something.

Wobble is the same as in my video at third post here, without that knocking sound from steering pump.

I know how silent this engine before, so i will make it again. Since i changed most of the running items now i am thinking that; may this wobble come by misfire? Because my check engine light is on and i suspect there is oil leak to one of my spark plugs. Misfire makes inconsistency in engine rotation and elastic belt gives the force to belt tensioner. I am not sure, can be?

So i will change the spark plugs while changing valve cover gasket soon. i will update.

i want to list the things that i suffered from;

1) Water Pump;
a) All aroud should be cleaned before removing old one
b) One cable is going beyond the pump, it will not be affected but be sure it is still under.
c) better to do the flushing of coolant also

2) Belt tensioner;
a) No need to put pin while removing the old one, just remove pulley first than you can reach all bolts.

3)Harmonic Balancer;
a) Use heavy duty tools, middle bolt will challenge
b) No need to buy special tolls, just make a tool that will not let pulley to turn while loosing/tightening the bolt.

4) Power Steering Pump;
a) Change the oil tank too, it has filter inside.
b) There is 3 bolts at the bottom, ratchet will not work. use spanner, it is better to get torx spanner but i removed with good quality ring end spanner. one bolt is under tensioner pulley, you can remove it without removing the tensioner.
c) There is one clamp holding oil tank to ps pump, it is hard to remove need to be careful to not to damage plastic of the tank.

just want to add; i was afraid to do the above jobs but these are all easy jobs if you like to do it yourself.

engindin

the knocking noise came back. Still searching for the cause.

optimusprime m1

egdin in the picture i can see , the pullys are not all running in line with one another and it may be end float you can hear. Is the shiny part in the centre the new tensioner ?that looks out of line with the other parts. The tensioner is bouncing ,did you check it by the old one .I take pictures of every thing i do so i can put it back right .A picture to start the job and view it as you stick all the bits back on . My heart goes out to you ,the work you have done and cash spent..So if i was close to you i would pop in to see the job you have done. Thats what members are for ,link up to help each other.

ibeforreal

I agree with Optimus. It looks like the part you replaced is not properly lined up. I could see why the belt would wobble. If you look at the two pulleys on either side of the replacement part one can see how it would not have a smooth transition across all three pulleys.

Not questioning your judgement but is the new pump identical to the one you are replacing?

engindin

i think the view of the picture shows those pulleys like they are out of their line. Crank and A/C pulley is far under the tensioner pulley. But sure i will check them precisely and let you know.

Before buying from ebay, i always check with EPC and see the tag on the old one. My old PS pump is 0034662601. Which is exactly as the new one.

Optimusprime, thanks for your support. This is my second car and i see this as a hobby car. spending my all weekend with her and taking ride at the end, making my girlfriend jealous. But those days i can not take ride because this knocking sound scares me that it will damage something. I am not in hurry, i will wait until i found the cause and fix it.

engindin

i have checked the pulleys, they are all in line.




But once again i removed the harmonic balancer, and found out seal is not looking good.





This called front crankshaft radial seal, 15$. i thought it makes pulley not to fit to crankshaft, i did the harmonic balancer job again, nothing changed.

while removing the V belt i realized that how easy i can do it, i remember that i was suffering last months! belt was new but not oem, I went to dealer and get the oem belt for around 40$, installed and the knocking noise disappeared.

Ohh, never again i will go other than original equipment for critical parts. (actually i was thinking belt was not critical that much)

Noise is gone but tensioner is still bouncing, and that is from misfire i think. I will do the spark plug job and check again.

wallyp

That looks as if the lip seal was rolled back when it was installed. I am surprised that you aren't getting oil leakage.

Congratulations on solving the knock...

engindin

Wally, i am also surprised why oil was not leaking from there but it was not.

i want to share this conclusion; i have changed valve covers and spark plugs, before doing the job, tensioner was bouncing like 8-9mm, now only 1-2mm bouncing is there and it seems okay to me. Engine is now running much softer. And the check engine light is gone. i hope this will help someone else.

I realize some symmetric cracks on the coils, looks like normal to me like plastic joints. I am confused because there is no misfire or vibration.

Are this cracks on coils okay?

GrepAwk

Those cracks will allow moisture and grime and salt (if you are in a northern climate) to eventually seep into the windings.

This can start corrosion around the wire insulation and will eventually kill the spark. Since both transformer covers have cracks, you will eventually lose both spark plugs for that cylinder.

You can limp along for now but I suggest swapping that out.

tusabes

Put some epoxy on those cracks

dbldpr

You need to replace the part with cracks. Not worth trying to fix unless you have nothing else to do

tusabes

Cracked strut tops are repaired with epoxy there's no reason you can't do the same to the coils

engindin

4 of 6 was cracked




so i cleaned each




roughened the crack surface





coated with epoxy




cleaned everything, put all of them back and tightened every spark wire...now i have vibration on idle and check engine light on

ibeforreal

What is your CEL code?

engindin

unfortunately, i don't have any tool to read it. but it is more like shake than vibration and its frequency does not seem like it is misfire. i eliminate the crank pulley which i changed recently because it is only on idle. i found used pack for a good price, i will change the coils. I am not satisfied with epoxy on those cracks.