ZephTheChef

I somewhat agree...except I wouldn't trade the power for the sound. I'd love to throw a TVS2300 or a whipple on the car and ditch the turbos so I could have F1 exhaust, lol.

Here's a quick clip of my car that I took tonight with the cutouts open and closed from inside the car with the window open as well as just outside. Note that it was in the shop on the lift and missing all the fender and underbody plastics due to intercooler line install in progress so it sounds louder in the vid than normal due to being indoors and lacking those sound-dampening layers. I don't know how good the audio quality is because my speakers on this laptop suck. I will take some drive-by and in-car acceleration videos once I get everything back together after the intercooler lines are done.

ZephTheChef

Also, the car revs/sound quite a bit different in Park/Neutral than it does under load, so hopefully I can get some better videos soon.

shooffnyc

HUGE difference between open & closed. I assume the closed is basically all the stock parts intact from cats to resonators and mufflers?

Yeah, make sure you take some vids when the cars all put back together.

And you TT guys should def check out the MEC Design exhaust system. I think they are cheaper than many of the other famous exhaust systems available for the TT V12 such as Meisterschaft, Kleemann, etc. and they sound really awesome. The closest to F1 sound I've heard. Check them out.

ZephTheChef

It's catless, but the rest of the exhaust is completely stock when the cutouts are closed.

AlexMercedes

I am 99% sure that the CL600 used in these videos is actually the naturally aspirated 5.8 V12, not the twin turbo. The tail lights were most likely just upgraded to look like the newer TT V12 models. I know this because you can clearly hear the high pitched tone with no turbos interfering in these sound clips, and the crank of the N/A V12 is higher pitched than the TT V12. You can see the difference when you compare it to the TT S600 and TT CL600 (the indoor video one & the newer model one) in the videos. The MEC exhaust for the TT S600 sounds no different than my setup which is straight piped all the way from the cats...

tusabes

The mec car is not a biturbo car
No offense to the Turbo owners but they simply cannot sound like the early v12s without turbos

I drove a biturbo cl600 the other day and it sounded like the luxury car it was meant to be , no sportiness whatsoever . Way worse exhaust note than even my cl500.

shooffnyc

I guess you're right I thought I heard the turbos on the CL600 but I think I mighta been wrong.

Anyways, I'll take your guys word for it as you guys own one. But yeah I def hear the turbos of the S600 on the first vid I posted compared to the rest of the videos.

ZephTheChef

Agreed. The turbos dampen as well as muddy the exhaust sound. My S600 with the cutouts open sounds more or less a lot like a V8 Chevy truck with straight pipes. Only difference is the hint of turbo whistle...which would probably be a lot louder with open element air filters, most of the "turbo whine" comes from the intake side.

I'm super jealous of the sounds the earlier V12s can make. I also find myself wondering how much the exhaust note has to do with the cam profile, and how much of it is just having un-obstructed equal length headers/straight pipes.

AlexMercedes

As much as the turbos do really quiet down that V12 scream, it is still somewhat prevalent in my setup. When I reach ~3000 rpm you can hear the V12 scream. It is quieted down by the turbos, but you can still definitely hear the high pitched scream, its just not as loud as the N/A V12. By theory, if I do remove the turbos, it will sound very similar if not exactly like the early V12s. I am actually thinking of doing this as an experiment, but I'm also worried that it won't work out so well because this engine was built with the turbos and no one can say what the outcome will be removing the turbos and how hard of a process it will be. Before anyone thinks I'm crazy, i really do not mind the power loss if i remove the turbos. If it is a really difficult process, then I'll just find a different way to replicate the sound if it's even possible.

ZephTheChef

Your biggest difficulty (apart from the computer being pissed off about it and you having no power) in removing the turbos is going to be figuring out what to do with the coolant and oil feed and return ports from the engine. I would not ever seriously consider removing the turbos unless it was no longer a daily driver and I wanted to do something really custom/racekar with it. It's definitely an engine-out process at the very least.

Jack_88

It might be simpler at that point to just buy a N/A car. They're really cheap these days.

AlexMercedes

If it is really that complicated, then I won't even bother with it. My next step would be to remove the cats, but I really don't want to deal with the car going all insane with error messages. I have never heard any FULLY straight piped S600s, so I am curious to see how it sounds with the cats removed and having absolutely nothing in the exhaust system besides the turbos. For those who think that will be too loud and obnoxious, I can't even hear my exhaust at all when cruising at normal speeds even though its straight piped from the cats back.

As for just buying the N/A car, yes I am aware that I can get one for cheaper than a Toyota of the same year, but I really do not want to deal with the horrible unreliability the car has. I heard these N/A V12s are the worst built engines by Mercedes in terms of reliability (oil leaking everywhere) and I have been told to stay away from them under all circumstances. So just buying an N/A S600 would be the last option for me.

shooffnyc

Bout the last part, tbh if you buy one with proper maintenance history, it should just require the normal maintenance. There are few out there with proper maintenance and even coil over conversion to avoid abc altogether.

Heck the amount I learned already bout the NA v12s, I wouldn't mind picking up a second one.

AlexMercedes

A while back, I remember spotting an N/A V12 S600 online that had 50k miles, had one owner, was a Californian car (no rust), and had the most detailed maintenance history that I have ever seen in any car in my life. It showed the owner going to the Mercedes-Benz of Beverly Hills dealer every 5,000 miles for service with fully detailed records every time

It was the cleanest and most well maintained car of that age that I have ever spotted, it was such a shame that I didn't pick it up, it was being sold for 15k. I bet an opportunity like that would never come again...

Oh well, I can't look at any other N/A V12 car the same after I saw such a clean example like that one. Something like that would most likely never come by again.

shooffnyc

One owner cars are the ones you should look out for. There is one in Texas right now. 2001 one owner and the nav still works. I am not sure of the maintenance history. If he had the VIN posted I woulda checked carfax but he didn't post it.

akmatic63

amazing thread can't wait to see the final product! I know i can't get my 65 to sound like that but I am getting muffler deletes soon, hopefully it makes a small difference. Ever since I saw that video a while back I've been on the lookout for a r129 sl600 or c140 cl600 JUST for that sound!

tusabes

You can get a decent 140 chassis 600 coupe or sedan for $3000-4000

shooffnyc

Unfortunately, I have to push this project a week or two back due to my ignition acting up. It's getting worse so time to take care of it. I was planning to take it to the exhaust shop middle of this week but now I will have to order an EIS and hopefully get this issue resolved. Then I will resume with this project and take it to the shop.

ZephTheChef

It's always something with car projects, lol. Sorry to hear about the luck. I'm looking forward to the results

kraut56

Hehehe!

I drive my NA S600 everyday (in the summer).
It runs just fine, and has a sh#tload of punch, and, runs very troublefree.

It's 14 years old, with 98 km ( about 58k miles).

Don't knock us oldies!

Formula E

Keep me updated on this! I plan on paying the japanese shop or fabricator in the states. Won't be taking on the project for several months. Started my search for the perfect 2002 s600 though.

shooffnyc

Good luck with your search. Look for one owner cars and make sure you do a Carfax, not autocheck. Carfax usually gives all the maintenance history from MB dealerships and even other indy shops. Most use them.

You can order custom V12 headers/manifolds from the states. Some companies make them. But they require you to do the prep work. I posted about them earlier on this thread.

There is one company in California that carries Brilliant Exhaust products - which is the Japaneses company that makes the headers for these models, but I did not see the V12 headers/manifolds in their stock.

http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/car-129?brand=1172

I might think of contacting them to see if they can get a hold of one and bring it in the states. Feel free if you wanna contact them first.

shooffnyc

Actually I just now looked into one of their items. It was labelled as the SL63 exhaust. But on the fine note it states that it's for the SL65 AMG exhaust. If I am not mistaken, this prolly is the same equal length manifold for the S600. I'm thinking of giving them a call to verify.

Here is the link: http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com...exhaust-system

Description:

The exhaust system from Brilliant includes equal length exhaust manifold, front pipe (racing catalytic converter), and center pipe. Brilliant Exhaust is made by Technical Garage Sasaki and have been featured on Jalponik. NOTE: This is for the SL65 AMG.

tusabes

Byou really going to spend $7800 on headers on a car worth $5000?

shooffnyc

Maybe. I haven't decided yet. Depends on how the straight pipes comes out sounding. I was thinking about doing the custom headers but that's a whole project in itself. Will see how it goes.