shooffnyc

Just got off the phone with the guys at BulletProofAutomotive. Spoke to a guy named Max.

And I was able to confirm that they CAN get the Brilliant Exhaust System for the W220 V12 NA engine - the same setup that's on the famous video. He said it will cost a bit more than $7800. It will have to be a custom order and the parts will be built once you place the order.

Then it will be shipped from Japan to their facility in Los Angeles. From there you also have domestic shipping if you need it shipped from there. They can also do installation.

The parts will consist of:
a)Manifold/headers
b)Front pipe (racing catalytic converter)
c)Center pipe

Just posting this information out there in case some were curious about obtaining this exhaust system.

ZephTheChef

Wow. I can't imagine spending that kind of money. Sure, they are a work of art...but you're looking at like maybe $1,000 in materials, even if built entirely out of stainless pipe weld els. Could potentially be a lot cheaper materials and labor cost (welding time) with custom mandrel bent tubing (granted there aren't many shops, even high end ones, that have that $$$$ equipment). Surely you could find a US-based fabricator who would love to build you a comparable system for half that price (granted, that is still a lot to swallow).

shooffnyc

Well, as I stated in one of the first few posts that I was able to find a company that can make v12 headers for $3K. That would involve them sending me a mockup kit. So I'd have to design the headers myself using their mockup kit. Then send that back to the company to which they they would build it from.

I haven't given it too much thought yet but I would imagine my obstacles would be trying to design it myself as I am clueless how to do the designing and also with the installation as to how to take care of the O2 sensors and the primary cats on these. It would be ideal if I knew of a performance shop that was familiar with these models near my locality. But I'll dig into that later if/when it comes to that point.

ZephTheChef

I wonder if they are using one of these kits: http://www.icengineworks.com/

I always thought that would be cool to have/play around with, but the cost is ridiculous for the hobbyist or occasional one-off design. They really need to rent them.

shooffnyc

Yeah I think the concept it similar. They just use some sort of PVC pipe based system to do the mockup.

Here is the website that I contacted: http://www.stainlessheaders.com/customheaders

ZephTheChef

Interesting. I hadn't seen that type of mock-up before. The other kit I linked is more like legos, lol. I would think it would be harder to get the more complex shape an equal-length V12 header is going to require with those hinged connectors...it would take a LOT of them, I think.

shooffnyc

Car is in the shop. The stock exhaust got pulled out. Took some pics.

Also took a video of how a true duals would sound like. It actually sounds sweet! I'll post video in a bit.

Now we're fabricating a y pipe to merge the duals. Then I'll take another vid to show how that sounds like.

shooffnyc

Finishing up with the welding. The pipe work is done. One side was a pain. But it came out pretty good.

shooffnyc

Here is a short preview of the exhaust. First clip is with true duals. It sounds much higher pitched than with the Y-pipe attached. At least until the vid was taken. I haven't heard the finished product myself yet standing behind the car. I'll take some when I get home from work. Enjoy.

shooffnyc

Here is the second preview with the duals merging into one through a Y-pipe. The exhaust was not fully done as of this vid. But with the Y-pipe, it actually sounded less higher pitched than the true duals. but then again at the end, it splits back into 2. So I haven't heard how it sounds behind the car. But inside it's a bit deeper sounding and less high pitched that true duals.

I'll have a better video out later on. Enjoy!

ZephTheChef

Interesting. I would have expected the opposite (more throaty with straight dual vs having a y or x pipe). Looking forward to hearing some drive-bys!

ZephTheChef

I want to get some better clips of mine up, but between the IC Ys I need to fab up (just got a new dry cut saw so I can actually do some repeatable cuts...the old harbor freight chop saw blade just walks too much for any precision) and the ignition system acting up again once warmed up (I still have an original passenger coil and transformer...it's one or the other), it looks like it's going to be a while before it's running 100%.

shooffnyc

I thought the same as you, hence I went for that. BUT the thing when I took the first vid, the straight duals ended right where the camera was so it sounded much louder (and high-pitched) to me. Now with the pipes running all the way back and splitting from the Y, it may sound as high pitched.

Anyways, thanks to you guys for the suggestions.

shooffnyc

That sux. Mine is at the shop getting the starter replaced and having the wires around the starter checked up for my ongoing starting issue. But I had to get this done somewhere in between. I couldn't wait any longer.

ZephTheChef

It's always something. But I've learned a lot more about these cars than I ever would have if I didn't run into any issues. So for that, I'm grateful. I haven't been in too much of a hurry to get it fixed since it drives fine below half throttle and it's been so hot outside I haven't really wanted to stick around after work. Plus, I'm kind of hoping the problem will get worse to make it more obvious/testable as to whether it's the coil assembly or the ignition transformer. I get the occasional miss reported on cylinder 1, which has new coils and plugs. I am seeing a lot more bank 2 misfires reported. Specifically 7,9,10,12. That bank got new plugs, but I couldn't afford both coil assemblies at the time so I only replaced the dead one. Did great for about 6 months but I think the extra summer heat has finally caused it to start acting up.

shooffnyc

Yeah same here. I learned so much already about these cars. Like I am excited to move onto fixing the front and rear valve body on the ABC. BUT this intermittent starting issue which has got me perplexed, I can't move on from it. If I knew what it was, I'd be happy and do what it takes to fix it and move on. But I have to test and replace one thing at a time. But I am learning things as I go along. I never delved deeper into a car than I have with this. Even with all the headache I've gone through, I still feel like I love this car. It's a machine in its true sense.

But with what you are describing, I'd be leaning towards the ignition power inverter. You can go for that rent program offered by v12icpack.com. Or buy a used one and have it in spare.

ZephTheChef

I am too, but I've seen references to that they could potentially be damaged by bad coils (although I don't see how)...and I definitely had bad coils on the passenger bank. The driver bank is still the original coil assembly...so it's highly suspect as well, but it may be a combination of both of them.

With brand new ignition transformers available for $560ish, I don't think I'd pay $350-500 for a "good" used one on ebay, particularly since it has probably been revised in design like the coils.

https://parts.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...65-TRANSFORMER

I am thinking about just getting a new one and then keeping mine as the emergency spare (since it will still at least run the car at this point). I would almost rather just save up and do the transformer and the remaining coil at the same time.

ZephTheChef

Also, I had kind of been wondering if anyone has relocated it to an area away from heat? Obviously it would take a harness extension/modification...but I have seen several cases of commonly failed electrical modules/components on other vehicles where simply relocating them away from the engine results in parts that last the test of time. mid 90s chevy igntion modules, and pump mounted drivers from the diesel trucks, etc.

Sorry, way off topic. That tends to happen with me.

AlexMercedes

Wow, amazing! It sounds VERY similar to the F1 exhaust from the original video! I think paying 9k for those headers is completely pointless and you would be literally retarded to do so. Whatever you did sounds pretty damn spot on, I would just leave the headers alone (unless you are a millionaire and have 9k to blow).

Just a quick question though. In your setup so far, have you gone completely cat-less? Or is it just a resonator & muffler delete at this point?

tusabes

I've stated numerous times you don't need to spend $$ on fancy exhaust manifolds . The nonturbo v12 has the f1 sound simply by running straight pipe

Don't need to do any fancy X pipe/H pipe nonsense , unless you want a different sound . Just straight pipe all the way back is all you need

shooffnyc

Well initially I thought the headers made the difference. But since then I've come across few videos and some websites which sell 'high-pitched' mufflers. I think the key is having the right type of engine and properly fabricated mufflers.

Here is a video that shows why a ferrari V8 sounds different than a corvette v8

And here is Kreissieg Exhaust company that makes mufflers that produce high pitched sound. Take a look at the Audi S8 V10 engine. Most exhaust that exist for the S8 don't produce that F1 type sound. But this company basically sells a downpipe and a muffler which makes it sound like an F1 very similar to the m137 V12. They've done it without headers. That engine is also used on Lamborghinis.


I'd think that if companies like capristo, armytrix, Kreisseig, etc. made mufflers for the m137 v12 the same way they make for lamborghinis and ferraris, etc. like with high-pitched sound in mind they can.

In my setup, I have taken out the rear cats, resonators, and mufflers. Mind you this engine has 4 catalytic converters up front that make up the primary set. That's where the four o2 sensors are located. When I removed the secondary set of cats, they were actually quite far from the primary set so I didn't have to worry about CEL.

So it's not completely catless because I have the primaries up front. I sometimes wonder how it would sound like with all four of those removed.

shooffnyc

I have no pride issues with myself to admit that you were right. And as I stated earlier, maybe going full straight as in true dual setup might have given more of a high pitched sound than merging them to a Y-pipe. I have yet to find out how it truly sounds right now as the car was in the shop pretty late yesterday as they were trying to put the starter and check for any other issues down there.

AlexMercedes

I was just wondering, how would a TT V12 exhaust sound like with true duals? My current setup merges into a single factory pipe in the middle (the one that is bent and contorted in a weird way to save space) then goes out into two pipes again. What would happen if I got rid of that single merging pipe and replaced it with two pipes for each side of the exhaust and have true duals instead? Would I get a higher pitched sound? Would it be worth trying out?

tusabes

Not worth it . The Turbos completely change the sound and it's not the high pitched scream

Look at the video of post 20 here
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...t-install.html

That's what an open exhaust on turbo car sound like - a little louder but still a low pitch

ZephTheChef

I was actually going to get some driving vids of it tonight on the way home but I had my climate control out the other day to clean/lube that irritating little fan and I must have disturbed the wiring to my cutout switch in the process. Went to open them tonight and my switch isn't doing anything.