g60wall

I will be doing an engine out service on the S600 I just purchased. Car has 86k on the clock, and the Motor mounts are shot. I have the car on the lift doing maintenance/ motor mounts , removed the exhaust and still couldn't get to the top bolts of the mount. So wanted to reach out see what else should I change while the motor is (partially out).

Only things on my list is the Diverter valve kit and Alternator.

Obviously all vacuum lines will be tended to.

ABC pump is solid at 190 BAR, Just replaced high pressure hose and pulsation damper/ and hose.
This is my first M275 so I am not to familiar with the platform, I currently own w140 s600 and w220 S55 so I do understand what is going on just not with the motor!

Thanks a lot fellas!

tusabes

Water pump and Valve cover gaskets are good to change while the engine is out

g60wall

g60wall

The Fleet!

Its funny I did the water pump when I first purchased the car. Wish I had known I was going to pull the motor I would like to have the skin back of my knuckles!

cmpcpro

My pump was putting out 190 bar too and my specialist said he sees them dropping pressure when cold then running fine once they heat up. Sure enough a couple days later I started the car cold and this time turned it off before it fully warmed up and when firing it up the next time I got the ABC warning. Had to replace the pump.

g60wall

On my S55 I do 10 liter flush every 10K. I see 3-7 bar improvement( return to normal levels) the last 3 times I have flushed. I think key to keep ABC pump alive is new fluid and new accumulators.

cmpcpro

When my pump was just done the other day they charged me for 8 containers of fluid.. now a week or so before another place had replaced the rear right shock and told the PO they flushed the fluid but the invoice only showed one or two.. I haven't talked to my friend yet to ask why but am curious why he only used 8. I'm assuming the fluid was probably looking brand new before the flush, and the other place may have flushed it like they said.. My friend also put a new filter too.

g60wall

I think total system is like 5 liters. I do 10 liter flush because I get two 5 liters jugs from eBay and just run them both through the system. I disconnect the return line run it to a bucket. Put my 8 year old in the driver seat for turning off the key/ raising-lowering the car. literally takes like 10-15 minutes. It is really hard to trust independent shops when it comes to ABC stuff. I have a good indy in North Jersey I use for my big jobs.

Welwynnick

Motor mounts on the V12TT are difficult, but you don't need to remove the engine. If you support the engine and drop the subframe, you get access to all the impossible things.

Motor mounts are changed by removing (or at the least loosening) the mount arms. These castings have four bolts to the engine block, and forward bolts are difficult to reach.

I've done that a couple of times to rebuild / replace motor mounts, turbos, diverter valves, ABC pipes, etc. A few folks round here are catching on to this as well.

I have pics if you want.

Nick

g60wall

Nick
I think the main problem with my vehicle is a 2003 therefore have a style A motor mount per WIS document. I would love any pics you have! I would even send you some $$ to FaceTime with me I have the car on the lift infront of me!

g60wall

g60wall

Going to lower the motor! Thanks for the tip

cottonyzf

So are you planning to drop it from the bottom with the subframe?

I'm planning to pull mine soon (also a 2003 s600) and was trying to decide whether to go out the top or the bottom.

g60wall

Removing the subframe completely then going to Lower the motor down. The removing the arms that mount to the motor. The 2003 have a different style mount, that needs the whole arm to be removed. I am replacing a few ABC lines ( high pressure line, and pulsation damper line) and doing both diverter valves. Already did water pump and idler pulleys. thinking about doing away with the cats and running dual straight pipe to muffler. I have the cat/down pipe removed.

Welwynnick

???
If you want to drop the engine, lower it WITH the subframe!

But that wasn't what I meant. I meant DON'T move the engine - just lower the sub-frame, then you get access to everything underneath.

These are all the things you DON'T have to remove or disconnect when you don't remove the engine:

Fan
Bulkhead
Wiring
Cooling
Heating
Air con
Oil cooling
Charge cooling
Transmission cooling
Alternator cooling
ABC
Exhaust
Propshaft
Transmission
Engine

Here's what you get when you drop the subframe:




IMAG0961_zpsc25041d8.jpg?t=1397393477





Nick

g60wall

Nick,

yes that exactly where we are at now.

Thanks again for the "tip"

Hans Ertl

God. Looking at that would make me want to upgrade turbos at the same time! I bought new engine mounts for mine, that I still have to install. And I'm the ultimate "while I'm in there" type of guy.

Welwynnick

Certainly worth replacing the diverter valves.

Probably worth replacing the ABC feed pipe.

Maybe worth replacing the starter motor brushes and alternator regulator.

Turbos aren't a real problem, as long as you look after the engine.

Getting the steering rack in and out can be a pain, but if you're just going to tilt the subframe down, it doesn't take a lot of time. It's not big a deal.

Nick

g60wall

I replaced the diverter valves and all the ABC lines running under the motor. All new control arms Both lower arms and ball joints, Brakes all around. Obviously motor mounts. The car feels like its on a cloud. Now I have replaced 3 out of the 4 map sensor waiting for the last one on top of the throttle body. Car is driving 95%, I am now turning my attention to the driveline. I am going to replace the center support and flex disc.( I did this on my S55 and it made a huge difference). I also have this "CHUG" in high gear under 2k rpm on light throttle car seems to chug like a manual in too high a gear. I would say it was misfiring but I am not getting any codes and its fine with some more throttle.

g60wall

Also, Pertaining to boost, during dataloggin I very Rarely see 14 PSI (once) usually in mid 12s. Occasionally 13s. My IAT are sub 100F under throttle. I notice also if I roll into throttle I get more boost as opposed to Flooring it.

Welwynnick

Good job. How did you do it? Did you take any pictures?

Interesting comments about the suspension arms and the ride. I'm convinced the ride and refinement of modern cars is heavily dependent on the design and condition of the lower wishbones bushes and the strut top bushes. When they wear out, the ride suffers.

Nick

g60wall

We supported the the motor and lowerd the subframe (completely) We had a hell of the time in the front upper driver side motor mount.

Broke the map sensor off the throttle body had a really big oh **** lol when going on the first ride with no boost.
I wish they had a replacement for the top of strut bushing.

i owned a bunch of Mercedes and none of the aftermarket suspension parts hold up nearly as well as Mercedes control and thrust arms and the all joints. Mercedes has the warranty on parts as well that includes labor!

next on the list is rear and return line accumulator

Welwynnick

Me too. Being hidden by the turbo, tandem pump, AC compressor and the mount itself, it's difficult to touch; let alone see; let alone undo. I think a set of E-torx ratchet wrenches would probably help.
I think part of the secret of the W220 is the soft strut top bushes, but that makes them quick to wear. They need replacement much more quickly than the struts themselves. This is what I did on mine:

I think most well-used W215's and W220's will suffer from this problem, and it can be easily fixed. The improvement to the ride and handling is really worthwhile on broken surfaces.

On the rear strut, the bush appears to be bonded to the metal mounting. I don't think this causes problems as readily as the front, but the bush can come free due to corrosion or bonding failure. The only solution I found was to replace the strut. Buy a good used one off ebay, and its not too expensive or difficult (as long as the so-called quick-release connector isn't seized).

I cut some small doughnuts out of a 10mm rubber sheet and put them under the top bush nuts. You need a stout 35mm pin spanner. Don't even need to lift the car up - in fact its better if you don't.

The ride is much better now. You can't do the same trick with rear struts unfortunately.



Its an angle grinder type of spanner that you need; not a C spanner.

The one that you linked on ebay looks suitable.

You can't use adjustable ones; they're not up to the job. Ask me how etc.

You use the spanner to undo the large flat nut on the top of the front strut, in the centre. You remove the electrical connector first.

Don't jack the car up - you need the weight on the wheel to stop the rest of the strut from spinning round (which may damage the hydraulic pipe).

g60wall

This is great Stuff, the s600 has four new arnotts. My 2005 S55 on the other hand, I am positive the top bushing are shot. Im on the fence of just getting four Arrnotts for my S55 and when the Bushing fail just going the warranty route with their lifetime replacements. I also notice on all my W220 the strut move up about 3 inches when the car is jacked up. I always assumed this was from a collapsed up strut bushing.

Welwynnick

Edit to the post above:

Forget all that stuff about cutting out bushes from rubber sheet using a hole cutter.

Just search online for "M20 rubber washer" and you'll find loads of them. They're commonly 3mm thick, so just stack one or two under the existing top bush.

The rubber washers need to be approx. ID 20mm / OD 45 mm.

Easy.