Mercedes - quality & reliability problems

[cjf_moraga]

Originally Posted by NJS430 Consumer Reports seems to believe its value to consumers is finding the product that sells for less, but in their view is just as good. .....To date they are the only publication that has rated the Lexus over the new S-class. Everybody else can't be wrong. Is this not the review that marked down the S550 listing one reasons as the (aluminum not plastic) driver window control buttons all feel similar? They were really looking hard for a reason to rate the S-Class under the Lexus to fit their preconceived prejudices - the dolts! Chris

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[AsianML]

My MY02 ML has been rock solid with not a single major issue and only a handful of minor issues (which were resolved very quickly) since the day we bought it.

[NJS430]

Originally Posted by cjf_moraga

Is this not the review that marked down the S550 listing one reasons as the (aluminum not plastic) driver window control buttons all feel similar? They were really looking hard for a reason to rate the S-Class under the Lexus to fit their preconceived prejudices - the dolts!

Chris

Yes - I will say they were correct in their assessment that it is easy to hit the wrong window switch, but its hardly a justification to say the Lexus easily wins. They have always been big fans of Toyota and Lexus although they will never admit that. Don't know if they validate their reliability data, but I have always suspected that it is not very accurate. People can say things that aren't true depending on how they feel about their car. They don't have to be fair. Unless you match it up with real invoices or the car companies database for warranty repairs - you really don't know if it is reflective or poor service or a problematic car. Based on the ratings, you would think that Toyota and Lexus have zero service bulletins and nothing ever goes wrong. I think we all know that this isn't the case.

[whoover]

Originally Posted by Diesel Benz

Where is this info from? Traditionally SA produces right hand driven C-class sedans. Bremen and Sindelfingen should be doing the LHD cars (perhaps some RHD too).

http://www.sagoodnews.co.za/trade_in...or_the_us.html

[RLPIII]

Originally Posted by gnma

. . .Its like driving an impregnable vault which has incredible hp, tq, braking, suspension and steering. AND I hate automatics!! But every time I drive mine, I'm like "this is king".

I honestly bel. the MB of today is troublesome - but more "annoying" trouble, such as constantly clicking dynamic seats, rather than serious engine/tranny problems. I hope the 221 problems owners are experiencing are electronic and not mechanical. The smarter thing would be to buy a Lexus, but for the above reasons, I cherish my MB. It truly is world-class.

The biggest reason I kept my C32 is that when everything is running right, it is truly a great car to drive - deceivingly fast and very comfortable along with all the other things stated by gnma above. I really like the mixture of sport and luxury of the MB AMG.

My biggest problem with Lexus is that they are just too slow. I can not buy one for that simple fact unless it's an SUV, but still, slow really sux.

BMW is fast and drives really well, test drove the M6 a few months back and almost bought, but they just don't have the luxury, comfort feel to them you get from MB.

[Germancar1]

Originally Posted by Oliverk

I can't say I agree with your assessment of the 210. I would place the early 211 cars as substantially more problematic.

You know what, you're right. The 03-05 W211 models were more troublesome by far. When I wrote that I was thinking (but didn't mention) about from a build quality point of view as how the W210 wasn't built like the W214 before it. The W210 still had its share of problems, but nothing like the brakes, suspension (airmatic) and nav system problems like the first couple of years of the W211 did.

M

[trumpet1]

Originally Posted by cjf_moraga

Is this not the review that marked down the S550 listing one reasons as the (aluminum not plastic) driver window control buttons all feel similar? They were really looking hard for a reason to rate the S-Class under the Lexus to fit their preconceived prejudices - the dolts!

Chris

+1

[AustinGuy]

Originally Posted by RLPIII

The biggest reason I kept my C32 is that when everything is running right, it is truly a great car to drive....

Originally Posted by RLPIII

My biggest problem with Lexus is that they are just too slow. ...

uummmm.....NO!

[Quadcammer]

Originally Posted by Germancar1

You know what, you're right. The 03-05 W211 models were more troublesome by far. When I wrote that I was thinking (but didn't mention) about from a build quality point of view as how the W210 wasn't built like the W214 before it. The W210 still had its share of problems, but nothing like the brakes, suspension (airmatic) and nav system problems like the first couple of years of the W211 did.

M

The 124 and 126 certainly do have their excellent reputation.

The w210 is pretty solid, although it has a few inexcuseables (rusting spring perch is the big one)

[Chucky300]

Originally Posted by trumpet1

This is a fabulous thread to read and raises great questions and viewpoints. I , for one, am one of the biggest fans of luxury cars that I know. I study this crap to a point of obsession and I KNOW that the current S class is the best car in the world and will hold that position for at least 5 years if not longer.
As in any business/product life, it takes years to build a great reputation but only minutes to destroy one. The Chrysler era is the only thing that messed up dear old Daimler and we need to be understanding of this and get back to the grass roots of what is real and that is: Mercedes Benz is the best car company across the board. They made a mistake and they know it. When I was 5 years old, I distinctly remember crawling into a 1968 Mercedes S class and even at that young age, I knew this was a special vehicle. I just didn't know it would develop into a sickness for me

Rest assured, your decision to buy an S550 is not to be regretted. You will be happy. What little problems I've mentioned over the past year are so minor that it simply adds entertainment for the forum if nothing else.

I LOVE MY W221 !!!!!! Best car I've ever driven. That doesn't mean I don't miss my W215. That too was one of the best cars I've ever owned. Still wish I could grab a 2005 CL65 just for fun. This fellow just can't squeeze it into his budget

Wow - I have missed a ton! Haven't posted in ages.

Truth also is that Mercedes IS in fact climbing back up the ranks. Quality is definitely better. I drove an 02 S500 and now have the 07 S550 and it is literally night and day - everything from the seats to the quality of materials inside...vast vast improvement, with relatively minimal price increase. (given the % increase).

With that said - if anyone wanted to see for themselves, they could rent one for a weekend before plunking down $105,000 to buy one or before entering a full 36 month lease commitment...

Its really a great car!

[trumpet1]

Great to hear from you again Brad!

[Chucky300]

Originally Posted by trumpet1

Great to hear from you again Brad!

You too, although Email is cool too!

If i post around mbworld - it wont be in the off topic section...sadly - a few of those fellows need to come to terms with why they have to go online to carry out their bully-like behaviour....which is usually a sign of not getting the respect they crave in their "real" lives...

Anyways. I just got a great car wash!
I specifically went to this one particular place because they broke the GPS antenna off my car during the car wash process. It was replaced under warranty but not before the water leaked into the back seat. This time around though - no problems, I imagine the glue they used this time really locked the unit down.

The car is showroom new! Now heading over shortly to Sushi Samba.

=)

[djamer]

Here's my take on the whole debate on reliability on benz. The large majority of the people who buy MB or BMW for the large are very critical, seek the absolute best, and will voice their opinion on the slightest issue. Nothing wrong w/ that at all. While Mercedes had has its fair share of Quality Assurance mishaps, and I can say the actual engines/ powertrain are rock solid.

The electricial issues were apparent in 2000-2006 models. But not all. I had a 2002 CLK320, flawless. Only major issue was the cat converter going bad, but replaced under warranty. My CL500 was a nightmare. Alot of the fault belongs to MB poor engineering of the ABC suspension which caused major issues for car owners. The electrical internals were badly designed. Just google ABC failures and you will see practically CL owner experiencing this issue. This dark period where number of complaints increased and satisfactions decreased can be attributed to poor QA standards, and the sub-standard contractors for electrical parts.

I think MB has learned their lesson and now are on a mission to make sure the 'brand' is back to it's rightful position at the top. It will take alot of work, because many loyalist have defected to Lexus, Audi or BMW. In terms of the S class, my neighbor has a 2008 and drives it 50 miles a day. snow/rain/sleet here in Northern VA. Everytime I speak to him, he has a smile on his face.
I really hope his experience is the norm and not the exception because the S class is a beauty which should inspire equal admiration for it's excellence in engineering.

Just a note, I own a 04' SL with 25K on the clock. Drives like a dream...wish me luck

[RLPIII]

Originally Posted by AustinGuy

uummmm.....NO!

Except for the IS 350, which is barely a even a 4 sec. car (4.9 sec). . . then uummmm......YES!....TO SLOW!!!

[gellie]

After owning 2 s500(02 and 05) I will never buy another one. There are just way too many problems. I cant stand wasting time at the dealer to have the same problems re-fixed. Every year my sa tells me merc has gotten all the gremlins out of the car. I jjust have never seen this to be true.In fact my 02 was more trouble free than my 05. Given how the resale/trade in price 07 s550 has gotten crushed(30-35k off original price !), I have to believe the reliability has something to do with this. Maybe when they start using Merc parts again instead of Chrysler, some of the problems will disipate.

[trumpet1]

Originally Posted by gellie

After owning 2 s500(02 and 05) I will never buy another one. There are just way too many problems. I cant stand wasting time at the dealer to have the same problems re-fixed. Every year my sa tells me merc has gotten all the gremlins out of the car. I jjust have never seen this to be true.In fact my 02 was more trouble free than my 05. Given how the resale/trade in price 07 s550 has gotten crushed(30-35k off original price !), I have to believe the reliability has something to do with this. Maybe when they start using Merc parts again instead of Chrysler, some of the problems will disipate.

I'm surprised your '05 gave that much trouble. As far as the drop in the '07 prices, that is so normal. Most all luxury cars drop 30K in their first year and you have to remember, some of those '07s are actually '06 cars. The 2007 model practically sold for almost 2 years. In other parts of the world , the W221 is a full year older to them than to us. I really wish MBUSA would consider build date to reference a model as opposed to the age old way of doing this where the new model year starts in the middle of the previous year

As far as the Merc parts versus Chrysler Crap: I think this is definitely out of the equation for now. Not sure, but almost sure.

[gellie]

I believe as part of the Chrysler sale agreement there is still a part share program in place for several years.

[trumpet1]

Originally Posted by gellie

I believe as part of the Chrysler sale agreement there is still a part share program in place for several years.

Ahh, I didn't know that. I just hope they are using the good parts

[Germancar1]

Oh my.....Chrysler and Mercedes don't share any parts in the S-Class. The ony Mercedes and Chryslers that were "sharing" parts were the previous generation SLK and the Crossfire and Chrysler's LX (300/Magnum/Charger) and the previous E-Class. There were no parts shared between the S-Class and Chrysler. Why do people believe this nonsense?

Mercedes started cheapening their cars back in the mid 90's after Lexus took hold of the market, it had nothing to do with Chrysler. Chrysler only made it worse because after MB bought they the had to pump huges sums of cash into Chrysler to keep it going, but Mercedes drop in quality wasn't because they shared parts.

Mercedes only gave Chrysler access to their out of production platforms/tech, not their current platforms/engines etc. There are no re-badged current Mercedes' running around as Chrysler and vice versa.

M

[gellie]

Originally Posted by Germancar1

Oh my.....Chrysler and Mercedes don't share any parts in the S-Class. The ony Mercedes and Chryslers that were "sharing" parts were the previous generation SLK and the Crossfire and Chrysler's LX (300/Magnum/Charger) and the previous E-Class. There were no parts shared between the S-Class and Chrysler. Why do people believe this nonsense?

Mercedes started cheapening their cars back in the mid 90's after Lexus took hold of the market, it had nothing to do with Chrysler. Chrysler only made it worse because after MB bought they the had to pump huges sums of cash into Chrysler to keep it going, but Mercedes drop in quality wasn't because they shared parts.

Mercedes only gave Chrysler access to their out of production platforms/tech, not their current platforms/engines etc. There are no re-badged current Mercedes' running around as Chrysler and vice versa.

M

Its silly to believe that the accountants at DCX would limit there attempted cost savings to specfic models. If there was a chrysler part that fit/worked in the S they would use it.

[Germancar1]

Originally Posted by gellie

Its silly to believe that the accountants at DCX would limit there attempted cost savings to specfic models. If there was a chrysler part that fit/worked in the S they would use it.

They didn't use any Chrysler parts in the S-Class. The W220 was completed before merger even took place. The S-Class' engineering was far above anything Chrysler had at the time or even had on the drawing board. The things that gave problems on the W220 weren't even present in any Chrysler vehicles to begin with. The Comand systems, airmatic, etc. had no origins in anything Chrysler, simply put Chrysler didn't have these things to share in the first place.

Mercedes-Benz's cost no object engineering way of doing things was changed long before they decided to buy Chrysler. Cost savings as you put it weren't limted to certain models, it was across the board. However this was done because of Shremp's desire to "put a Benz in every garage", not because of Chrysler. It is well documented what was and was not shared between the 2 companies. The S-Class isn't on the list.

M

[trumpet1]

Which came first: The Chrysler Pacifica or the Mercedes R class. Those two look identical in so many ways (actually the Pacifica looks better IMO even though I think they both are fugly).

[RLPIII]

Originally Posted by trumpet1

Which came first: The Chrysler Pacifica or the Mercedes R class. Those two look identical in so many ways (actually the Pacifica looks better IMO even though I think they both are fugly).

I agree, I think the R class is contributing to diluting the MB brand.

[Germancar1]

Originally Posted by trumpet1

Which came first: The Chrysler Pacifica or the Mercedes R class. Those two look identical in so many ways (actually the Pacifica looks better IMO even though I think they both are fugly).

They came around the same time, though they don't share a platform as many mistakenly believe.

M

[TurboTuner]

I've had 2 W221s and love them to death as dailys. Pure technology and luxury. I prefer them over Bentleys in terms of reliability and technology.