Mercedes - quality & reliability problems
03-03-2008, 12:19 PM
#51
Super Member
i've had my s550 for about a year now (8,000 miles), and i cannot say enough good things about it. having had a dozen+ (lost count) benzos including at least one model in each of the s-class lines since the w126 came out, i feel i have some credibility in my statements. never ever have i experienced quality in both ride and functional performance like this s550. i've had ZERO issues.
i think it is also worth mentioning that i bought the car primarily for safety. the older i get, the more i realize how important that is - moreso than power or ride or status for that matter. in my opinion, i would have a better chance of surviving a catastrophic wreck in this car than any other in the world. yeah - i paid $100,000 for it --- but i'll be alive in the future to tell the tales! what better way to spend your money - then to save your life!
i won't go into all the details but we've had an exceptionally harsh winter here in chicago this year, and i found myself in a compromised saftey situation last month in the middle of a ten-inch snowstorm. the s550's pre-safe system took over and not only prepared me for the impending impact (seat automatically moved to a more favorable crash position, belts tightened, abs activated and brake pressure flow increased) but also stopped the car on a downhill incline coverd in ice and snow before i rammed the back of a line a cars in front of me. all was well. the only thing the car did not do was serve up a glen levit to calm my nervous!
bottom line: quality, quality, quality like none other. and most importantly, safety like none other.
i think benzo got it right out of the box with this thing. i would not hesitate to encourage anyone to buy one - especially if their trepidations are entrenched in a perceived quality issue.
i think it is also worth mentioning that i bought the car primarily for safety. the older i get, the more i realize how important that is - moreso than power or ride or status for that matter. in my opinion, i would have a better chance of surviving a catastrophic wreck in this car than any other in the world. yeah - i paid $100,000 for it --- but i'll be alive in the future to tell the tales! what better way to spend your money - then to save your life!
i won't go into all the details but we've had an exceptionally harsh winter here in chicago this year, and i found myself in a compromised saftey situation last month in the middle of a ten-inch snowstorm. the s550's pre-safe system took over and not only prepared me for the impending impact (seat automatically moved to a more favorable crash position, belts tightened, abs activated and brake pressure flow increased) but also stopped the car on a downhill incline coverd in ice and snow before i rammed the back of a line a cars in front of me. all was well. the only thing the car did not do was serve up a glen levit to calm my nervous!
bottom line: quality, quality, quality like none other. and most importantly, safety like none other.
i think benzo got it right out of the box with this thing. i would not hesitate to encourage anyone to buy one - especially if their trepidations are entrenched in a perceived quality issue.
03-03-2008, 01:28 PM
#52
Super Member
Well first off, all of the vehicles you've listed are previous generation vehicles. There is nothing Mercedes can do to "fix" their reputation with those vehicles. All they can do is repair them as they break. The darkest period for Mercedes is from 1998-2005/06 depending on the model series in question.
The new S-Class and CL have proven (so far) be a complete turn around for Mercedes compared to the previous S-Class and CL models.
Secondly you simply can't use a lame review from CNNMoney to give you the entire picture on a Mercedes, or any car for that matter. For one they aren't car experts, only automotive "writers". Ditto for Consumer Reports. Their reliability data is what it is, but all they can do is "project" what the reliability will be for the new S-Class based on the old model. Pretty dumb IMO. Everyone in the known world already knows that the new S is way different from the old S, but at Consumer Reports they don't acknowledge this in their reliability stats, only to say that it is "projected". I am dying to see what Consumer Reports says in their data this spring which will include actual hard data on the 2007 S and CL models, not some projection crap. The upcoming data will give the stats on the first year of ownership, not the first 90 days like J.D. Powers does.
The new S/CL does just what you ask, gets a handle on the problem and their image and it has done so (so far) with smashing results. You also have to realize that people with older troubled Benzes are going to harp about it forever and forever until they either get a newer and have a better experience. After a while it just becomes meaningless drivel because their cars are no longer relevant or related to the current crop in quality, design, reliability.
I have a W208 CLK430 Cabriolet, one of the troubled cars from the darker years of Mercedes' quality woes so I know first hand about this to a certain degree, but I also have the sense to know a W221 is a different car. There comes a time where you have to make up your own mind and use more than one (bitter) source.
There is no denying that Mercedes-Benz suffered (or suffers depending on how you look at it) a severe drop in quality. Generally the worst offenders were/are:
1998-2005 ML (W163) - Worst vehicle Mercedes-Benz has made in the last 25 years!
1998-2003 CLK (W208)
2001-2007 C-Class (W203)
2000-2006 S-Class (W220)
1996-2002 E-Class (W210)
Then you have some cars that were iffy at the start, but seemed to have improved greatly:
2003-2008 E-Class (W211) - The 2003-2005 models were worst, but from 2006 onward things seem to have gotten better, but the real improvement came with the 2007 facelift. The initial data (JDP) suggest a complete turn around, but I'm still waiting to see is Consumer Reports mirrors it.
2003-2008 SL (R230) - Like the current E-Class, the 2003-2005 models were problematic, but the 2007 facelift seems to have turned things around.
Then you have some that still seem to be problematic:
2003-2008 CLK (W209) - Still seems to be more problematic than any of the above cars. Not sure why at this point. Still better than the W208 cars, but not yet straightened out it seems.
2006-2008 GL, ML, R-Classes. All share the same chassis and most parts, still seem to be problematic going by the boards here. These being built here seems to have a lot to do with it, but that is a whole different story.
Overall I'd say MB's quality is on the mend, but they still have a long ways to go. Ideally everything they make would be as trouble free as the W221 is proving to be. We'll see if the new C-Class can repeat this in the hands of far more consumers in much greater number than the S-Class.
M
The new S-Class and CL have proven (so far) be a complete turn around for Mercedes compared to the previous S-Class and CL models.
Secondly you simply can't use a lame review from CNNMoney to give you the entire picture on a Mercedes, or any car for that matter. For one they aren't car experts, only automotive "writers". Ditto for Consumer Reports. Their reliability data is what it is, but all they can do is "project" what the reliability will be for the new S-Class based on the old model. Pretty dumb IMO. Everyone in the known world already knows that the new S is way different from the old S, but at Consumer Reports they don't acknowledge this in their reliability stats, only to say that it is "projected". I am dying to see what Consumer Reports says in their data this spring which will include actual hard data on the 2007 S and CL models, not some projection crap. The upcoming data will give the stats on the first year of ownership, not the first 90 days like J.D. Powers does.
The new S/CL does just what you ask, gets a handle on the problem and their image and it has done so (so far) with smashing results. You also have to realize that people with older troubled Benzes are going to harp about it forever and forever until they either get a newer and have a better experience. After a while it just becomes meaningless drivel because their cars are no longer relevant or related to the current crop in quality, design, reliability.
I have a W208 CLK430 Cabriolet, one of the troubled cars from the darker years of Mercedes' quality woes so I know first hand about this to a certain degree, but I also have the sense to know a W221 is a different car. There comes a time where you have to make up your own mind and use more than one (bitter) source.
There is no denying that Mercedes-Benz suffered (or suffers depending on how you look at it) a severe drop in quality. Generally the worst offenders were/are:
1998-2005 ML (W163) - Worst vehicle Mercedes-Benz has made in the last 25 years!
1998-2003 CLK (W208)
2001-2007 C-Class (W203)
2000-2006 S-Class (W220)
1996-2002 E-Class (W210)
Then you have some cars that were iffy at the start, but seemed to have improved greatly:
2003-2008 E-Class (W211) - The 2003-2005 models were worst, but from 2006 onward things seem to have gotten better, but the real improvement came with the 2007 facelift. The initial data (JDP) suggest a complete turn around, but I'm still waiting to see is Consumer Reports mirrors it.
2003-2008 SL (R230) - Like the current E-Class, the 2003-2005 models were problematic, but the 2007 facelift seems to have turned things around.
Then you have some that still seem to be problematic:
2003-2008 CLK (W209) - Still seems to be more problematic than any of the above cars. Not sure why at this point. Still better than the W208 cars, but not yet straightened out it seems.
2006-2008 GL, ML, R-Classes. All share the same chassis and most parts, still seem to be problematic going by the boards here. These being built here seems to have a lot to do with it, but that is a whole different story.
Overall I'd say MB's quality is on the mend, but they still have a long ways to go. Ideally everything they make would be as trouble free as the W221 is proving to be. We'll see if the new C-Class can repeat this in the hands of far more consumers in much greater number than the S-Class.
M
Well said. I love my 2001 W210, and am fully aware of the problems that it has. People can't judge upon what some 'writer' says...go out and try for yourself. I, for one, KNOW for a fact that once Chrysler was out of the picture, Daimler-Benz will once again be the best.
03-14-2008, 01:53 AM
#53
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Mercedes has certainly gotten better in quality, particularly in the case of the 221. The W220 had alot of problems for various reasons, not the least of which had to do with the fact that they decided to basically build the entire car from the ground up with new technology. The W221's dont really have the sort of relaibility problems like ten years ago. Still I do see some come into the dealer form time to time and they do have problems but it looks like they are getting better.
03-14-2008, 06:23 AM
#54
Mercedes has certainly gotten better in quality, particularly in the case of the 221. The W220 had alot of problems for various reasons, not the least of which had to do with the fact that they decided to basically build the entire car from the ground up with new technology. The W221's dont really have the sort of relaibility problems like ten years ago. Still I do see some come into the dealer form time to time and they do have problems but it looks like they are getting better.
Honestly though, since I don't do much driving, I'll probably get a C class next time. My car is overkill for what little driving I do. I really enjoy driving my wife's C 350. Plus , I'd like to retire in the next 4 to 5 years and the toy prices will have to drop to do that
03-14-2008, 03:56 PM
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Much better in fact. Other than having that idler pulley going bad on me, my car has done very well. I just hope it does well up to 100K miles without any major problems.
Honestly though, since I don't do much driving, I'll probably get a C class next time. My car is overkill for what little driving I do. I really enjoy driving my wife's C 350. Plus , I'd like to retire in the next 4 to 5 years and the toy prices will have to drop to do that
Honestly though, since I don't do much driving, I'll probably get a C class next time. My car is overkill for what little driving I do. I really enjoy driving my wife's C 350. Plus , I'd like to retire in the next 4 to 5 years and the toy prices will have to drop to do that
03-15-2008, 07:01 PM
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2007 S-550
I don't underestand the quality issue with the MB 550. I bought mine in March 2007 and have driven it 29,000 miles. I have never had a more trouble-free auto. I have not had a single issue. It's a wonderful experience to take it into the dealership for it's routine service (12,000 miles) and tell the service advisor there is nothing to report!!!! A great auto.
03-15-2008, 07:36 PM
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03-15-2008, 07:58 PM
#58
And for us 600/65 owners.....5 to 7 times the price!!! Which raises a point that has been in my mind for a while.
Do you guys believe that the quality level in trim detail is better when you step up from one model level to another? Even within a model, do you think that the attention to detail is better from a 550 to a 63 to a 600 to a 65???
I seem to think so but it may be my imagination. Anyone willing to elaborate on this notion? Of course, the 65 owners would know this better as they have had the luxury of owning all of the different cars or have been in loaner cars to compare.
In other words, is their a hidden/unmentioned improvement in quality and attention to detail placed into the more expensive models when one examines a S550 versus a S65?
My salesman and I were discussing this and we came to the common conclusion that their seems to be. Again, may be imagination.
Do you guys believe that the quality level in trim detail is better when you step up from one model level to another? Even within a model, do you think that the attention to detail is better from a 550 to a 63 to a 600 to a 65???
I seem to think so but it may be my imagination. Anyone willing to elaborate on this notion? Of course, the 65 owners would know this better as they have had the luxury of owning all of the different cars or have been in loaner cars to compare.
In other words, is their a hidden/unmentioned improvement in quality and attention to detail placed into the more expensive models when one examines a S550 versus a S65?
My salesman and I were discussing this and we came to the common conclusion that their seems to be. Again, may be imagination.
03-15-2008, 10:03 PM
#59
MBWorld Fanatic!
And for us 600/65 owners.....5 to 7 times the price!!! Which raises a point that has been in my mind for a while.
Do you guys believe that the quality level in trim detail is better when you step up from one model level to another? Even within a model, do you think that the attention to detail is better from a 550 to a 63 to a 600 to a 65???
I seem to think so but it may be my imagination. Anyone willing to elaborate on this notion? Of course, the 65 owners would know this better as they have had the luxury of owning all of the different cars or have been in loaner cars to compare.
In other words, is their a hidden/unmentioned improvement in quality and attention to detail placed into the more expensive models when one examines a S550 versus a S65?
My salesman and I were discussing this and we came to the common conclusion that their seems to be. Again, may be imagination.
Do you guys believe that the quality level in trim detail is better when you step up from one model level to another? Even within a model, do you think that the attention to detail is better from a 550 to a 63 to a 600 to a 65???
I seem to think so but it may be my imagination. Anyone willing to elaborate on this notion? Of course, the 65 owners would know this better as they have had the luxury of owning all of the different cars or have been in loaner cars to compare.
In other words, is their a hidden/unmentioned improvement in quality and attention to detail placed into the more expensive models when one examines a S550 versus a S65?
My salesman and I were discussing this and we came to the common conclusion that their seems to be. Again, may be imagination.
Would guess quality levels are generally higher on higher-end classes, i.e., S/CL higher than E/C, etc....prob higher-caliber (and better paid) employees are awarded the role of working on S/CL R&D and mfg....after all, these models are only ?10% of MB unit sales but represent some ?40% of operating profits....
Within S/CL-Classes, what's hard to separate out are all the elevated interior materials used in 600/65....finer-grain leather, Alcantara headliner, leather trim/stitching around the rear headrests/rear shelf, etc etc....
But from my obviously non-statistically signif examination of several 550/63/600/65, would suspect build quality is superb generally (adjusting for different quality of materials).....
That said, know at least 3-4 colleagues (each of whom buys several new $150K+ MB/AMGs per yr) who have had their new 65s bought back by MB for lemon law issues (specific to flawed motor)....the process was handled seamlessly by MB, but each of these guys has a long history of buying new $150K+ MBs from a major dealer in SF/LA/NYC; I don't know if a first-time/one-off 65 buyer would have been treated as graciously if their 65 was problematic....and I don't know what relative lemon rates are for 600 vs 63 vs 65....
My general sense is hand-finished stuff like leathers, etc will likely be higher quality w/low-vol, higher-end models; need high MSRP and high profit margins to justify that attention to detail...but w/mechanical/hardware/software aspects like engines/computer elements/various safety systems, etc, suspect need scale (and profitable pricing) to optimize innovation vs quality&reliability...scale esp to justify R&D investment and to quickly find issues and debug.....my sense is that AMG is not investing much/anything in 65 R&D over past several yrs....and the small scale of 65 produc makes debugging a far more difficult process....
03-16-2008, 12:35 AM
#60
MBWorld Fanatic!
i've had my s550 for about a year now (8,000 miles), and i cannot say enough good things about it. having had a dozen+ (lost count) benzos including at least one model in each of the s-class lines since the w126 came out, i feel i have some credibility in my statements. never ever have i experienced quality in both ride and functional performance like this s550. i've had ZERO issues.
i think it is also worth mentioning that i bought the car primarily for safety. the older i get, the more i realize how important that is - moreso than power or ride or status for that matter. in my opinion, i would have a better chance of surviving a catastrophic wreck in this car than any other in the world. yeah - i paid $100,000 for it --- but i'll be alive in the future to tell the tales! what better way to spend your money - then to save your life!
i won't go into all the details but we've had an exceptionally harsh winter here in chicago this year, and i found myself in a compromised saftey situation last month in the middle of a ten-inch snowstorm. the s550's pre-safe system took over and not only prepared me for the impending impact (seat automatically moved to a more favorable crash position, belts tightened, abs activated and brake pressure flow increased) but also stopped the car on a downhill incline coverd in ice and snow before i rammed the back of a line a cars in front of me. all was well. the only thing the car did not do was serve up a glen levit to calm my nervous!
bottom line: quality, quality, quality like none other. and most importantly, safety like none other.
i think benzo got it right out of the box with this thing. i would not hesitate to encourage anyone to buy one - especially if their trepidations are entrenched in a perceived quality issue.
i think it is also worth mentioning that i bought the car primarily for safety. the older i get, the more i realize how important that is - moreso than power or ride or status for that matter. in my opinion, i would have a better chance of surviving a catastrophic wreck in this car than any other in the world. yeah - i paid $100,000 for it --- but i'll be alive in the future to tell the tales! what better way to spend your money - then to save your life!
i won't go into all the details but we've had an exceptionally harsh winter here in chicago this year, and i found myself in a compromised saftey situation last month in the middle of a ten-inch snowstorm. the s550's pre-safe system took over and not only prepared me for the impending impact (seat automatically moved to a more favorable crash position, belts tightened, abs activated and brake pressure flow increased) but also stopped the car on a downhill incline coverd in ice and snow before i rammed the back of a line a cars in front of me. all was well. the only thing the car did not do was serve up a glen levit to calm my nervous!
bottom line: quality, quality, quality like none other. and most importantly, safety like none other.
i think benzo got it right out of the box with this thing. i would not hesitate to encourage anyone to buy one - especially if their trepidations are entrenched in a perceived quality issue.
Have been driving new CLs since my early 20s....to me, safety is inextricably linked to perf; perf w/o superior safety (e.g., Ferrari) is fairly meaningless to most of those w/sound risk/reward judgment and who can afford any car....any monkey can engineer a fast/comfortable car....superior active/passive safety is far more complex/multidimensional....
Personally, have never been impressed w/either innovation or execution of active/passive safety structures/tech/dynamics of any other brand (incl Porsche, Audi, BMW, Lexus, Bentley, Volvo, etc etc) when compared vs today's S/CL....there's no useable hard data re: either safety or reliability....one needs to do own common-sense/anecdotal analysis and test drives to form judgments....and this forum has plenty of real-world ownership expce being shared....
03-16-2008, 07:17 AM
#61
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2007 S550
Mercedes Quality
I have owned 6 new mercedes since 1991. I can trufully say that Mercedes has more small problems than anyother automobile I have ever had(LexusLS, Infiniti, Cadillac. My latest Mercedes 2007 S550, drives and rides as good or better than most. It is the small problems that bug me. The automatic windshileld wipers, for example, will come on it sunny dry weather and have to be turned off to stop them. The Mercedes answer is to leave them off of automatic. Never hd the problem with Lexus. Maybe Mercedes should hire their designers.
The navigation system is, in my opinion, the worst system of all the cars. If I set my navigation to take me to the Mercedes dealer, it takes be to the Toyota dealer instead, about 1/2 mile away. When I complain, I only get smiles. How can you trust the system when it won't take you to the correct place that you know is right. They have had 7 or 8 years to correct thlis lousy system and haven't.
For quietness, the Lexus is by far the quietest, with little engine noise or wind noise. If the Mercedes drivers and designers can't see this, they aren't being true to themselves.
The saving grace and the reason I buy the Merecdes is the safety. I feel that all being equal I could survive an accident in my S550 that I might not in the other cars. I hope I don't have to test this theory.
Until the company starts listening to the comsumers and respond, they will never catch up with the Japanese automobile companies.
The navigation system is, in my opinion, the worst system of all the cars. If I set my navigation to take me to the Mercedes dealer, it takes be to the Toyota dealer instead, about 1/2 mile away. When I complain, I only get smiles. How can you trust the system when it won't take you to the correct place that you know is right. They have had 7 or 8 years to correct thlis lousy system and haven't.
For quietness, the Lexus is by far the quietest, with little engine noise or wind noise. If the Mercedes drivers and designers can't see this, they aren't being true to themselves.
The saving grace and the reason I buy the Merecdes is the safety. I feel that all being equal I could survive an accident in my S550 that I might not in the other cars. I hope I don't have to test this theory.
Until the company starts listening to the comsumers and respond, they will never catch up with the Japanese automobile companies.
03-16-2008, 10:00 AM
#62
I have owned 6 new mercedes since 1991. I can trufully say that Mercedes has more small problems than anyother automobile I have ever had(LexusLS, Infiniti, Cadillac. My latest Mercedes 2007 S550, drives and rides as good or better than most. It is the small problems that bug me. The automatic windshileld wipers, for example, will come on it sunny dry weather and have to be turned off to stop them. The Mercedes answer is to leave them off of automatic. Never hd the problem with Lexus. Maybe Mercedes should hire their designers.
The navigation system is, in my opinion, the worst system of all the cars. If I set my navigation to take me to the Mercedes dealer, it takes be to the Toyota dealer instead, about 1/2 mile away. When I complain, I only get smiles. How can you trust the system when it won't take you to the correct place that you know is right. They have had 7 or 8 years to correct thlis lousy system and haven't.
For quietness, the Lexus is by far the quietest, with little engine noise or wind noise. If the Mercedes drivers and designers can't see this, they aren't being true to themselves.
The saving grace and the reason I buy the Merecdes is the safety. I feel that all being equal I could survive an accident in my S550 that I might not in the other cars. I hope I don't have to test this theory.
Until the company starts listening to the comsumers and respond, they will never catch up with the Japanese automobile companies.
The navigation system is, in my opinion, the worst system of all the cars. If I set my navigation to take me to the Mercedes dealer, it takes be to the Toyota dealer instead, about 1/2 mile away. When I complain, I only get smiles. How can you trust the system when it won't take you to the correct place that you know is right. They have had 7 or 8 years to correct thlis lousy system and haven't.
For quietness, the Lexus is by far the quietest, with little engine noise or wind noise. If the Mercedes drivers and designers can't see this, they aren't being true to themselves.
The saving grace and the reason I buy the Merecdes is the safety. I feel that all being equal I could survive an accident in my S550 that I might not in the other cars. I hope I don't have to test this theory.
Until the company starts listening to the comsumers and respond, they will never catch up with the Japanese automobile companies.
The ride is smoother than a Lexus and the interior is quieter than Lexus. Sorry to disagree but I beg to differ on that opinion. The Lexus was much noisier to me and is one reason I walked away from it.
As far as the nav, I love it. Takes me exactly to where I want to go with extreme precision. The only time I complained about the nav was when I later realized I was not utilizing the heads up screen like I should have and originally blamed the system when in fact it was my own fault.
Safety is just a given with Mercedes. I've never even questioned that hopefully unused feature.
The W220 was a black eye to MB and they were true to themselves about the quality problems of that car.....that is why the W221 is so good. The only prior problems I've had with Mercedes vehicles I've owned (7 in all), were window motors and bulbs going out and those were all models prior to 2006. Each time it happened, either it was a 10 minute trip to the autozone store for a new bulb or the dealership replaced a window motor within 2 days.
Apparently Mercedes listened as I've not had any electrical problems with the newer vehicles.
03-16-2008, 11:35 AM
#63
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2009 GT-R
. . . The automatic windshileld wipers, for example, will come on it sunny dry weather and have to be turned off to stop them. The Mercedes answer is to leave them off of automatic. Never hd the problem with Lexus. Maybe Mercedes should hire their designers.
The navigation system is, in my opinion, the worst system of all the cars. If I set my navigation to take me to the Mercedes dealer, it takes be to the Toyota dealer instead, about 1/2 mile away. When I complain, I only get smiles. How can you trust the system when it won't take you to the correct place that you know is right. They have had 7 or 8 years to correct thlis lousy system and haven't. . .
The navigation system is, in my opinion, the worst system of all the cars. If I set my navigation to take me to the Mercedes dealer, it takes be to the Toyota dealer instead, about 1/2 mile away. When I complain, I only get smiles. How can you trust the system when it won't take you to the correct place that you know is right. They have had 7 or 8 years to correct thlis lousy system and haven't. . .
I have the CD based navigation which has been great even though ~9 CDs is not as good as just having one DVD. Also, making me use the one in dash drive for the navigation was not too thought out. It should be an in dash changer so that I can either load up almost all the Nav CDs, or at least have music CDs in there. The CD changer in the glove box takes up nearly all the glove box space.
I inherited an '07 cadillac, and it makes you put the stupid thing in park in order to plot a new destination which sucks something serious. My wife thought it was broken for a while. I eventually figured it out - that's supposed to be a safety feature, I guess?
The best, most user friendly navigation I have seen/used is in the Acura. I think Alpine actually makes it, but I am not sure.
03-16-2008, 02:21 PM
#64
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You are not talking about a W221. Although I have not had problems with my W211s either (I guess you were talking about a C-class, but I don't have experience about that). I'm with Trumpet1 here, I have not had any spurious wiper operation. I guess your glass is clean and no chips? Perhaps the sensor should be tuned to be less sensitive. Or are you driving some specific areas where you would get IR reflections to the sensor, then it should happen mostly at the same place(s).
03-16-2008, 02:33 PM
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2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
I have owned 6 new mercedes since 1991. I can trufully say that Mercedes has more small problems than anyother automobile I have ever had(LexusLS, Infiniti, Cadillac. My latest Mercedes 2007 S550, drives and rides as good or better than most. It is the small problems that bug me. The automatic windshileld wipers, for example, will come on it sunny dry weather and have to be turned off to stop them. The Mercedes answer is to leave them off of automatic. Never hd the problem with Lexus. Maybe Mercedes should hire their designers.
The navigation system is, in my opinion, the worst system of all the cars. If I set my navigation to take me to the Mercedes dealer, it takes be to the Toyota dealer instead, about 1/2 mile away. When I complain, I only get smiles. How can you trust the system when it won't take you to the correct place that you know is right. They have had 7 or 8 years to correct thlis lousy system and haven't.
For quietness, the Lexus is by far the quietest, with little engine noise or wind noise. If the Mercedes drivers and designers can't see this, they aren't being true to themselves.
The saving grace and the reason I buy the Merecdes is the safety. I feel that all being equal I could survive an accident in my S550 that I might not in the other cars. I hope I don't have to test this theory.
Until the company starts listening to the comsumers and respond, they will never catch up with the Japanese automobile companies.
The navigation system is, in my opinion, the worst system of all the cars. If I set my navigation to take me to the Mercedes dealer, it takes be to the Toyota dealer instead, about 1/2 mile away. When I complain, I only get smiles. How can you trust the system when it won't take you to the correct place that you know is right. They have had 7 or 8 years to correct thlis lousy system and haven't.
For quietness, the Lexus is by far the quietest, with little engine noise or wind noise. If the Mercedes drivers and designers can't see this, they aren't being true to themselves.
The saving grace and the reason I buy the Merecdes is the safety. I feel that all being equal I could survive an accident in my S550 that I might not in the other cars. I hope I don't have to test this theory.
Until the company starts listening to the comsumers and respond, they will never catch up with the Japanese automobile companies.
As far as engine noise is concerned, no European car maker tries to make an isolation chamber like a Lexus. A Lexus is a large Toyota in looks, feel and operation, nothing more. Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, etc. etc. all want you to hear the engine to a degree.
M
03-17-2008, 08:11 AM
#66
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I am interested in purchasing an w221 S, but wonder about the reliability over the long-term. I typically buy cars that I really like and keep them for extremely long periods of time, not because I can not afford to purchase a new one but because I simply like the car and see no reason to buy new cars every 3-5 or even 10 years. However reliability with very few problems is essential. I have considered the S550, S63 and S600. It seems that the S600 V12 or all V12 engines are a money pit so I think that is out for me. I will consider the S63 or S550 depending on test drive and reliability data, although the data is somewhat limited at this point.
Should I be looking at a different manufacturer other than Mercedes? I do not like the Lexus styling and the current BMW 7-series reliability seems to have been very poor over its entire life. I am also considering an Arnage, but an all new car is due in 2010 so I will probably wait on that not to mention the Arnage is technologically behind the times. Does anyone have a solution? Are there any long-term S-Class drivers with cars that have lasted 15-20 years here? If so please chime in.
Should I be looking at a different manufacturer other than Mercedes? I do not like the Lexus styling and the current BMW 7-series reliability seems to have been very poor over its entire life. I am also considering an Arnage, but an all new car is due in 2010 so I will probably wait on that not to mention the Arnage is technologically behind the times. Does anyone have a solution? Are there any long-term S-Class drivers with cars that have lasted 15-20 years here? If so please chime in.
03-17-2008, 08:38 AM
#67
I am interested in purchasing an w221 S, but wonder about the reliability over the long-term. I typically buy cars that I really like and keep them for extremely long periods of time, not because I can not afford to purchase a new one but because I simply like the car and see no reason to buy new cars every 3-5 or even 10 years. However reliability with very few problems is essential. I have considered the S550, S63 and S600. It seems that the S600 V12 or all V12 engines are a money pit so I think that is out for me. I will consider the S63 or S550 depending on test drive and reliability data, although the data is somewhat limited at this point.
Should I be looking at a different manufacturer other than Mercedes? I do not like the Lexus styling and the current BMW 7-series reliability seems to have been very poor over its entire life. I am also considering an Arnage, but an all new car is due in 2010 so I will probably wait on that not to mention the Arnage is technologically behind the times. Does anyone have a solution? Are there any long-term S-Class drivers with cars that have lasted 15-20 years here? If so please chime in.
Should I be looking at a different manufacturer other than Mercedes? I do not like the Lexus styling and the current BMW 7-series reliability seems to have been very poor over its entire life. I am also considering an Arnage, but an all new car is due in 2010 so I will probably wait on that not to mention the Arnage is technologically behind the times. Does anyone have a solution? Are there any long-term S-Class drivers with cars that have lasted 15-20 years here? If so please chime in.
But as far as trouble free for 10+ years, your best bet would probably be a Honda Accord but of course that wouldn't be a luxurious ride like the W221.
03-17-2008, 05:03 PM
#68
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My wife drives a Honda and I drive a Nissan and the Nissan has had far fewer problems. The Honda was far more prone to engine oil leaks. The Nissan had some oil leaks but fewer. I think that a problem free car after 5+ years is not really realistic. I expect things to wear out even the occassional oil leak, but I am referring to engines and transmissions needing to be replaced or electronic gremlins running completely amuck. I woul dlike to purchase a W221 that would be a reliable daily commuter for 15-20 years.
03-17-2008, 06:20 PM
#69
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'96 S320 , '98 E280 4matic '06 S350L '09 GL450
AHall: We also like to keep our cars for a long time and as long as we still enjoy driving them we see no need to change them frequently.
So far we kept our cars a minimum of 12 years and never had anything even remotely comparable to engine/transmissions needing to be replaced. But keep in mind that we dont' use them all that much (the W140 from 95 has only 80'000 km and the W210 from 97 has 130'000 km).
I think the key here is how the car is driven and maintained. As long as they're not abused and regularly serviced, they will last you a long time.
The S550 is a great car but my problem with is it is that I just don't like the design of it.
So far we kept our cars a minimum of 12 years and never had anything even remotely comparable to engine/transmissions needing to be replaced. But keep in mind that we dont' use them all that much (the W140 from 95 has only 80'000 km and the W210 from 97 has 130'000 km).
I think the key here is how the car is driven and maintained. As long as they're not abused and regularly serviced, they will last you a long time.
The S550 is a great car but my problem with is it is that I just don't like the design of it.
03-17-2008, 06:37 PM
#70
03-18-2008, 02:03 AM
#71
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2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
My wife drives a Honda and I drive a Nissan and the Nissan has had far fewer problems. The Honda was far more prone to engine oil leaks. The Nissan had some oil leaks but fewer. I think that a problem free car after 5+ years is not really realistic. I expect things to wear out even the occassional oil leak, but I am referring to engines and transmissions needing to be replaced or electronic gremlins running completely amuck. I woul dlike to purchase a W221 that would be a reliable daily commuter for 15-20 years.
That said If you don't like the Lexus or the BMW then Mercedes-Benz and Audi are you only bets. I wouldn't bet on an Audi for such a long haul either, their history says otherwise. Mercedes' used to be 15-20 year cars, but with so much electronics on board I doubt that now, without some type of expensive repair. 6-9 years no sweat, but after than it is only natural to have to spend some serious money on a Benz, especially one with the complication of a S550. As a daily driver depending on mileage you're going spend more on a Benz than you would if it were your weekend car. Forget the S63 AMG, more engine than your requirements are willing to put with.
M
03-18-2008, 02:42 AM
#72
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1999 C280 Previous / 2008 E350
Mercedes has certainly gotten better in quality, particularly in the case of the 221. The W220 had alot of problems for various reasons, not the least of which had to do with the fact that they decided to basically build the entire car from the ground up with new technology. The W221's dont really have the sort of relaibility problems like ten years ago. Still I do see some come into the dealer form time to time and they do have problems but it looks like they are getting better.
03-18-2008, 03:02 AM
#73
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S550
^^^The 2000 W220 was pretty bad with respect to electronic issues...the 2004 W220 was even worse...i was so happy to get rid of the 2004 version...the quality on that car really had me considering never buying a mercedes again...i started looking elsewhere with lexus, bmw, audi even...but in the end i needed all wheel drive and i wasn't about to spend 100,000+ on a lexus (since the Ls 600h L is the only Lexus LS option for awd) and i wasn't going to buy a soon to be restyled A8, so i ended up going with the S550...it was definitely worth it...it looks like they got it right this time...
03-18-2008, 06:34 AM
#74
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S500 LWB ( W221 ) - CL63 Biturbo ( W216 ) CL 55 Kompressor ( W215 Sold ) C43 AMG ( W202 Sold )
03-18-2008, 09:48 AM
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Thanks for the response Germancarfan. I have been working on cars for about 20 years now and realize that things are cars do wear out over time no matter what car you have. That is why I originally referenced the engine and transmission as areas of concern. The other items that can wear out or become faulty can be replaced without a huge expense. Do you speak from experience of owning a car in this class for more than 10 years or just assumptions?
I would really like to know what people's are actual experiences have been even though this is a new car and past performance may not be a good indicator of future performance.
I would really like to know what people's are actual experiences have been even though this is a new car and past performance may not be a good indicator of future performance.
