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Lets be honest the S550/CL550 transmission are not the greatess. My CL550 has been in the shop for the pass month for transmission problems. It's embrassing. I do have a extended warranty but who has time for their car to be in the shop every 3 months.
Those of you without a warranty should pray everyday something doesn't go wrong.
Wow how blind are we when trying to get a status quo with a Mercedes name. Wake up people MB indeed has failed to keep up with reliability issue. For the price of an arm and a leg we expected a higher standard hence the quote we get what we pay for!! In fact in general all German automobiles are less reliable than Japanese cars. It's got to do with their engineering and probably their cultural pride that they have created the ultimate automobile.They tried to create more features but failed to fully seamlessly integrate these at a flawless rate. I do have a BMW and MB. And surprisingly a Toyota Camry .i have spent more time trying to catch up with repairs in my Germans than my Japanese. We need to remember Germans were a1 engine manufacturers in ww2. One thing though German transmission seem to last longer than Japanese .
Mercedes target market for the S Class is a high dollar buyer who buys new or leases, keeps the car a couple of years and is on to a new one before the factory warranty is gone. Reliability over the first few years is fine.
Mercedes Benz as a manufacturer makes no money on the resale of a used S Class, which is how most of us on this sub-forum buy. In fact, the steep depreciation, which is a result in part of the likelihood of expensive maintenance and repairs, is what makes these cars affordable to guys like us, or me at least. I make a decent living but I'm not a buyer for a $108,000 car.
A commodity car, like an Asian built sedan (Camry, Accord etc) is a relatively simple, inexpensive machine that is expected to serve a long and troublefree life as a basic transportation appliance for a target owner who needs the car to outlast the payment coupon book and then some.
The mistake buyers of a used S Class make is first thinking that because the car was $100,000 new, it must therefore have better reliability than a car that was $50,000 new. In reality, it was $100,000 new because it's expensive to build. It was expensive to build because it's full of a bunch of expensive materials and technology, not because its parts are twice as reliable as a $50,000 car.
The only way IMO to buy a used S Class is CPO, with as much extra coverage as they'll sell you, and to dump the car the moment the warranty has expired.
Mercedes target market for the S Class is a high dollar buyer who buys new or leases, keeps the car a couple of years and is on to a new one before the factory warranty is gone. Reliability over the first few years is fine.
Mercedes Benz as a manufacturer makes no money on the resale of a used S Class, which is how most of us on this sub-forum buy. In fact, the steep depreciation, which is a result in part of the likelihood of expensive maintenance and repairs, is what makes these cars affordable to guys like us, or me at least. I make a decent living but I'm not a buyer for a $108,000 car.
A commodity car, like an Asian built sedan (Camry, Accord etc) is a relatively simple, inexpensive machine that is expected to serve a long and troublefree life as a basic transportation appliance for a target owner who needs the car to outlast the payment coupon book and then some.
The mistake buyers of a used S Class make is first thinking that because the car was $100,000 new, it must therefore have better reliability than a car that was $50,000 new. In reality, it was $100,000 new because it's expensive to build. It was expensive to build because it's full of a bunch of expensive materials and technology, not because its parts are twice as reliable as a $50,000 car.
The only way IMO to buy a used S Class is CPO, with as much extra coverage as they'll sell you, and to dump the car the moment the warranty has expired.
Your statements above while true represent a departure from Mercedes former policy of building rugged, reliable and long lasting cars which was a big part as to why Mercedes could command a premium because they would last longer. I remembered thinking when I had my 06 E Class that it was a financial instrument for Mercedes which was meant to be a conduit between Mercedes and my wallet rather than "Here is a well built automobile, maintain it and it will last forever" days.
I do think that Mercedes has returned somewhat to that philosophy with the E and C class's of late.
Taking the above into consideration the W221's are beautiful cars. I am being tortured by one sitting on a local car lot that I pass by everyday on my way home from work. I know how Odysseus felt in the Odyssey. Must resist....
Your statements above while true represent a departure from Mercedes former policy of building rugged, reliable and long lasting cars which was a big part as to why Mercedes could command a premium because they would last longer. I remembered thinking when I had my 06 E Class that it was a financial instrument for Mercedes which was meant to be a conduit between Mercedes and my wallet rather than "Here is a well built automobile, maintain it and it will last forever" days.
I do think that Mercedes has returned somewhat to that philosophy with the E and C class's of late.
Taking the above into consideration the W221's are beautiful cars. I am being tortured by one sitting on a local car lot that I pass by everyday on my way home from work. I know how Odysseus felt in the Odyssey. Must resist....
The siren's song is irresistible. I think in the late 90's MB designers made a decision to trade brawn and heft for lighter but smarter. Rather than relying on sheer mass and rugged construction for safety they turned to technology to both avoid accidents and to make them more survivable. Lighter cars get more performance from smaller powerplants, and use less fuel.
The thing about tech is that it's complex and reliant on a lot of parts and systems, and they're prone to glitches. Older MBs were (are) very well built, heavy, solid cars. I have an Indie shop in town that is always full of 80's era MB's with huge odometer numbers but still going strong and looking pretty good to, considering.
I will say my 221 has been more reliable than my prior 220's were, so maybe MB is getting better at making tech that holds up. I hope so for the sake of the 222 owners, because the tech in that car makes the tech in the 221 look like a Model T.
The siren's song is irresistible. I think in the late 90's MB designers made a decision to trade brawn and heft for lighter but smarter. Rather than relying on sheer mass and rugged construction for safety they turned to technology to both avoid accidents and to make them more survivable. Lighter cars get more performance from smaller powerplants, and use less fuel.
The thing about tech is that it's complex and reliant on a lot of parts and systems, and they're prone to glitches. Older MBs were (are) very well built, heavy, solid cars. I have an Indie shop in town that is always full of 80's era MB's with huge odometer numbers but still going strong and looking pretty good to, considering.
I will say my 221 has been more reliable than my prior 220's were, so maybe MB is getting better at making tech that holds up. I hope so for the sake of the 222 owners, because the tech in that car makes the tech in the 221 look like a Model T.
So what you are saying is resistance is futile.
The other thing is the OP was referencing issues with 2007 transmission which have been known to be problematic. That is one of the reasons I follow this board so intently is in the vain hope of trying to own one of these cars with the best shot of it not killing me financially.
The other thing is the OP was referencing issues with 2007 transmission which have been known to be problematic. That is one of the reasons I follow this board so intently is in the vain hope of trying to own one of these cars with the best shot of it not killing me financially.
If the 221 is inevitable, there is a way to own one and not spend the whole time waiting for it to bite you. CPO is the way to go. Anything that breaks is MB's problem. A CPO car costs more (MB charges the dealer $2k to issue the coverage, and the dealer has the costs of bringing the car up to CPO standards, which can get costly.)
The base CPO covers 12 months, and now unlimited mileage. For an extra $4500 you can extend to a total of 36 months. That's not cheap, but it's rare that an S goes into the shop and comes out with a bill much under $2k even for simple stuff.
My first CPO, a 2005 W220, had a total of $13,000 in CPO warranty repairs for which I paid nothing. They gave me a new C class to drive and handed the S back a couple days later good to go.It also blew a tranny 3k miles out of warranty that cost me $6,000.
I'm kinda bored with my 2010 S Class. It's in great shape (Florida car) has 62k on the odo, and another two years of full CPO until August 2016. Come and get it!
Well I am hoping that my S350 is as reliable as the posts indicate on this forum - seems the S350s owners do not seem to report a lot - maybe it just that I have not seen the posts?
Well I am hoping that my S350 is as reliable as the posts indicate on this forum - seems the S350s owners do not seem to report a lot - maybe it just that I have not seen the posts?
IminPa has one so you may want to contact him about his experience so far.
Well I am hoping that my S350 is as reliable as the posts indicate on this forum - seems the S350s owners do not seem to report a lot - maybe it just that I have not seen the posts?
I wouldn't read too much into that. There aren't a lot of 350 owners in the US in general.
Yes, but I also review the posts on the MBZ UK forums too. Seems that the gas car owners are more willing to speak up about issues even overseas. The fellow oil burners do not seem to report as much - could it be that the driving styles are so different that the gas car owners are seeing more issues due to stressing the car much more in their normal driving?
Yes, but I also review the posts on the MBZ UK forums too. Seems that the gas car owners are more willing to speak up about issues even overseas. The fellow oil burners do not seem to report as much - could it be that the driving styles are so different that the gas car owners are seeing more issues due to stressing the car much more in their normal driving?
One thing I've noticed about the diesel guys, regardless of make or model or forum, is that they're really, really enthusiastic. If you look at complaints about the W221, engine problems are rare across the line. It's all the other stuff...suspension, electronics etc, and most of that stuff is universal. In that sense it's doubtful that the 350 specifically dodges the reliability bullet.
One thing I've noticed about the diesel guys, regardless of make or model or forum, is that they're really, really enthusiastic. If you look at complaints about the W221, engine problems are rare across the line. It's all the other stuff...suspension, electronics etc, and most of that stuff is universal. In that sense it's doubtful that the 350 specifically dodges the reliability bullet.
Very good points, and that does have me a little worried, however, the W221 seems to be much more reliable than the W220, and I hope the W222 is even more reliable and they bring back the diesel to the USE in the future.
Found a little oil beneath the car today, car is remaining over the weekend at the dealer to isolate and resolve - slow leak apparently. Also got a weird bug in the system, right front tire has been showing low and lower for a couple of weeks. I would fill the tire with air and then it would slowly leak down. This morning I got into the car and the TP alarm went off and the car indicated that I had 5 psi in the right front tire. I filled it full of air and then went into the dealer to have them check out the tire and the oil leak. The first report on the tire, was that it was fine but the sensors appeared to be reporting opposite of where they were actually located? I believe the sensors are ok, as the system indicated that the front right tire was very low and it was very low. Dealer sofar could not find the air leak.
anyone have a similar experience with their tires?
It's a little soon for the sensors to act up. They have little batteries in them and when the voltage gets low they can give erroneous readings. Usually when one goes bad the other three aren't far behind. I think they're covered under CPO though. My first 220 had an oil leak that turned out to be a main seal, and that of course was covered.
Honestly I've never gotten out of a service visit for under $1000. Between the regular service, plus replacing wear items and fixing whatever other little stuff that has cropped up, it's always a grand. But, they do have a nice lounge with free pastries and coffee, plus I get to walk around and play with all the new cars, so it works out.
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Honestly I've never gotten out of a service visit for under $1000. Between the regular service, plus replacing wear items and fixing whatever other little stuff that has cropped up, it's always a grand.
I'm here all week! Try the veal! Seriously though, you should try selling your myth of the reliable S Class over on the W220 forum. Those poor basterds look like they could really use a good laugh. Hey, did you buy a 221? Didn't you have an 05 S500 in your profile a couple of weeks ago?
Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't have the ****ty luck you do. Why do you keep comparing a 220 to a 221? BTW, what was the deal with your heater?
I'm actually going to take the wife to drive a Tesla S on Wed. Kinda hoping she doesn't like it. But, they do have a 8 year 125k warranty :-P
On owning a 220, nope. 221 for over 4 years with a few minor issues that never got anywhere near $1000......
Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't have the ****ty luck you do. BTW, what was the deal with your heater?
I'm actually going to take the wife to drive a Tesla S on Wed. Kinda hoping she doesn't like it. But, they do have a 8 year 125k warranty :-P
Sadly. mine was just average luck. Above average considering all the tales of woe from 220 owners. Each one of my 220's stranded me at least once. The 06 with a blown tranny on the way to take my then 8 year old daughter out for her birthday. The 04 got stuck in park on a rare occasion when my wife took it out of town. It left her stranded in a Tampa shopping mall parking lot late at night. Of course both suffered Airmatic failures. Beautiful cars but finicky beasts and eventually I couldn't justify dumping more money in them. A well-maintained 220 with average miles now is a $10k car all day long.
The 221 has been better behaved so far but I've just crossed 65k miles. We'll see. By my calculations I'll see 100k miles in it before the warranty runs out.
A Tesla, huh? Love the idea of the car and the exterior. The interior is a deal breaker for me. That and they don't accept trades, and honestly they seem really pricey.
Man, I don't know if I could stomach another Mercedes if all that had happened to me. You've got good reason to be cautious. Mine have been pretty good to me.
I'm with you on the Tesla being awfully proud of their vehicles. Nice tax credits from feds and state, though. I'm very curious how it rides compared to the S550. I'm still trying to steer my wife to a 2012 or 13' E350 CPO, which was working until we pulled up next to a Tesla the other morning (*sigh*).
I'm thinking with roughly the same weight, slung way lower in the Tesla, and the available air suspension, plus less mechanical noise to overcome it should ride a lot like an S. I hope so for that kind of money.
Power is supposed to be amazing, and now there's a new option for an additional motor on the front axle for just under 700 HP and a 3.2 sec 0-60. Please post your thoughts after the drive!
Ok, the tire issue is a cracked rim, and I have coverage on that (keeping my fingers crossed). The oil leak still being researched. Also keeping my fingers crossed on the other N0x sensors. More info and Monday.
Ok, another update, the Turbo seal had to be replaced. Apparently this is not uncommon with this model. Hopefully they replaced it with an upgraded seal! Glad that was under warranty. They are still working on the tire/wheel warranty.
I'm glad I came upon this forum. I'll put my two cents in for the W221 S600 owners out there. I'm the second owner of a 2007, Barolo Red over Cashmere. I purchased it when it had 23k-24k miles on it and still had a warranty. Boy am I glad it was still under warranty for the first year and a half and 12,000 miles. My VIN is very low for the year, so I have one of the first '07s. You must keep that in mind as you read.
The first thing that went out was the the driver door speaker. Warranty covered. Next, the ECU for the rear A/C system which would randomly shut down. Also under warranty thank goodness. Next, the front right headlight control module - warranty. Next, ABC malfunction. One week in the shop and a full set of new accumulators later - fixed. Not under warranty, but Mercedes corporate and I came to an understanding. I paid something like $542 for a portion of the labor, they paid the rest. In hindsight, this would have been around $2k-$3k.
The latest thing was coolant leaking from the connections at the turbos. If you have a V12TT car, this WILL happen to you. Not a 'maybe' or 'uh huh sure', no, this will happen. Over time the rubber o-rings get hard, crack a little, and bam, you will come out one morning to a puddle of coolant. The car will drive fine and I suppose you could just keep adding coolant, but the repair involves removing the engine/exhaust/trans, then removing the engine mounts, then dropping the turbos. All to replace 4 o-rings. I cannot over emphasize that there is no way around this method. It may sound like I am making this up, but I assure you I am not. I just had this done at my local indie MB specialist. Dealers will charge through the nose for this repair as it requires a high attention to detail as well as many hours if it is done correctly. It was around $4500 for this repair.
But, everything is back together, dry and working great! I think the W221 is just a very complex machine and those of us who choose to own them must understand that the complexity comes with risk and reward. The rewards are a high level of luxury, safety, and performance. The risks (out of warranty) are mainly financial. Just about anything can be fixed. I haven't found anything mechanically wrong with mine. I think they are a very sound automobile, but with complex systems. My biggest recommendation if you are a second or third owner is to get to know your indie MB mechanic, perform recommended maintenance, and pay attention to little things that are going on with your car.
^Exactly. Part of the beauty of an S is that it's loaded with tech that by design is invisible to the user, For example, there's a thread here by a guy who got a red "DRIVE TO WORKSHOP WITHOUT CHANGING GEARS" warning, and the car threw three fault codes. One for the master steering column controller, one for the ignition and key authorization controller, and one for the electronic servo that changes gears. Three (that he knows of) systems in the steering column alone, and that level of complexity runs through the entire car.
We look at the steering column for example and to us it doesn't look substantially different than a steering column in a Toyota, so we presume it's substantially the same and therefore should be similarly reliable. Some believe because of the cost and the fact it's built by Mercedes it will actually be more reliable. That is a fallacy.
It is true that virtually any mechanical issue can be fixed if you can throw enough money at it. The danger zone is when the cost of a repair would represent a large percentage of the car's total value, or even total it. Once an S depreciates out and is in that $20k to $25k value range, it doesn't take much to go upside down.
08-07-2014, 01:38 PM
Glad that was under warranty. They are still working on the tire/wheel warranty.
