S550 Sound System (Bose or Harman Kardon)
04-17-2014, 10:11 PM
#51
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I think it's coming from around center area. You don't have any kinds of rattling sounds when heavy/deep bass music is played?
04-17-2014, 10:17 PM
#52
Maybe go to a high end stereo shop and have them diagnose?
04-17-2014, 10:27 PM
#53
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I'm hoping dealer can do something about this problem since I'm still under warranty (assuming this is warranty covered issue?). If it comes down to it I guess I will have to take it to stereo shop and have them fix it :/
Hope dealer have better answer for me tomorrow...
Thank you for suggestion
04-17-2014, 10:34 PM
#54
MBWorld Fanatic!
That's really ashame... those rattling noise totally ruins the music for me, I'm sure you know the feeling. It's like someone chewing or clicking pen right next to my ears!
Unfortunately, I have no idea how to pull the cover panel. I couldn't even get my finger underneath it. Is HK designed the same way?
Unfortunately, I have no idea how to pull the cover panel. I couldn't even get my finger underneath it. Is HK designed the same way?
I can get mine to do it if I play "Eminence Front" by The Who. The synthesized bass drum in the intro is just right to cause a resonance somewhere back there that I can't pin down.
Last edited by Mike5215; 04-17-2014 at 10:52 PM.
04-18-2014, 10:21 AM
#55
MBWorld Fanatic!
I bet the rattle is coming from the metal shelf inside the trunk. I fixed mine but putting in some rubber spacers between the metal and the sub from inside the trunk. Turn up the music. Pop the trunk, sit inside the trunk and listen for the rattle and push up with your hand on the metal below the subs and see of it goes away.
05-01-2014, 12:33 PM
#56
MBWorld Fanatic!
Working right now on a minimally invasive Focal speaker upgrade, of the main speaker arrays in the front doors. Determined that the Focal IFBMW 2-Way 4" components are a direct replacement for the existing 2 Way Harman Kardon 4" components.
Focal designed the IFBMW line to be a speaker-only upgrade to the Harman Kardon system in BMW 1, 3 and 5 series and it happens that Mercedes used the same units in the W221 as BMW. As a result, the Focal upgrade is compatible with the W221. The IFBMW is optimized to work with the existing factory amplifier.
It consists of a two way system (4" woofer in the door module and a 1" soft dome tweeter for the sail panel), and a shallow mount 8" subwoofer in the door module.
The 4" component set should be a direct fit, aside from the wire connectors which will need to be adapted from the BMW connector.
The 8" sub will require some minor modification as the contour around the mounting holes is a little broader than the OEM, and the little connection box needs to be accommodated as well.
Another option is the Focal KRC100 for the 2 way components. While the woofer doesn't share the same mounting hole configuration as OEM, it's a better speaker all around, the tweeter is a big step up and you get an adjustable cross-over.
I've ordered the KRC100 (Pic below) and two IFBMW-S sub woofers and I'll update after the install. Stay tuned!
Focal designed the IFBMW line to be a speaker-only upgrade to the Harman Kardon system in BMW 1, 3 and 5 series and it happens that Mercedes used the same units in the W221 as BMW. As a result, the Focal upgrade is compatible with the W221. The IFBMW is optimized to work with the existing factory amplifier.
It consists of a two way system (4" woofer in the door module and a 1" soft dome tweeter for the sail panel), and a shallow mount 8" subwoofer in the door module.
The 4" component set should be a direct fit, aside from the wire connectors which will need to be adapted from the BMW connector.
The 8" sub will require some minor modification as the contour around the mounting holes is a little broader than the OEM, and the little connection box needs to be accommodated as well.
Another option is the Focal KRC100 for the 2 way components. While the woofer doesn't share the same mounting hole configuration as OEM, it's a better speaker all around, the tweeter is a big step up and you get an adjustable cross-over.
I've ordered the KRC100 (Pic below) and two IFBMW-S sub woofers and I'll update after the install. Stay tuned!
05-14-2014, 12:46 PM
#57
MBWorld Fanatic!
If your music is on your IPhone/iPod, the cure for the "dead" sounding HK system is available from the App Store for $4.99. I discovered that the problem isn't so much in the HK speakers or amps...it's largely in the COMAND unit, where the factory EQ and limited audio controls conspire to kill what is actually a nice sounding system with decent power and fidelity.
Just feed the system a little more gain and apply some real EQ and you'll be very happy with the results. Unfortunately none of the preset Apple EQs get the job done in the S550. Plus you can't create custom EQs in the default Apple Music Player, which is really what's required.
I use the AudioForge EQ. Here's a screen cap of what the curve in my S550 looks like:
My library is Classic Rock, Pop, and Smooth Jazz encoded at 356kb.
This EQ curve will give you punchy, clean bass, bright (but not harsh) transparent highs and plenty of drive and power.
Those dots represent points on the frequency spectrum. Start with the "Flat" preset (Presets are on the 2nd icon on the bottom from left) Copy mine or make your own. Add your songs, start a song playing, tap a dot (it turns blue) and then drag it around until you're happy. Horizontal movement moves control up or down the frequency spectrum. Vertical boosts or attenuates the frequency's prominence in the mix.
The green line represents the actual EQ curve being applied. It smooths out the variations in the individual dots. You can make the curve sharper or softer at any point on it by selecting a dot, then using the "rubber band" move.
When the sound is where you want it, the curve can be saved and assigned a name, and it will appear in the Presets list.
The "Preamp" slider adds gain and gives the system more power overall. Slide it right until the VU meter hits red. The app will automatically back the signal down until it's not overdriving or clipping.
Player controls appear as an overlay. Just tap the icon on the bottom with the blue border to bring it up. Tap again to hide it.
On the COMAND, Bass and Treble to 100%, Logic7 Off, Fader back to -3.
I'll post a thread with a more detailed write up at some point, but this should get folks started. Sadly, this option does not apply to streaming music services (Pandora, MOG, Rhapsody) etc. Also, music files must be resident on the device (not on ICloud).
The EQ app becomes your Music Player. Controls are pretty straightforward. The COMAND gets confused as far as Title and Artist info on the display. I set the playlist to shuffle all songs and just use Voice Command to skip tracks.
Enjoy!
Just feed the system a little more gain and apply some real EQ and you'll be very happy with the results. Unfortunately none of the preset Apple EQs get the job done in the S550. Plus you can't create custom EQs in the default Apple Music Player, which is really what's required.
I use the AudioForge EQ. Here's a screen cap of what the curve in my S550 looks like:
My library is Classic Rock, Pop, and Smooth Jazz encoded at 356kb.
This EQ curve will give you punchy, clean bass, bright (but not harsh) transparent highs and plenty of drive and power.
Those dots represent points on the frequency spectrum. Start with the "Flat" preset (Presets are on the 2nd icon on the bottom from left) Copy mine or make your own. Add your songs, start a song playing, tap a dot (it turns blue) and then drag it around until you're happy. Horizontal movement moves control up or down the frequency spectrum. Vertical boosts or attenuates the frequency's prominence in the mix.
The green line represents the actual EQ curve being applied. It smooths out the variations in the individual dots. You can make the curve sharper or softer at any point on it by selecting a dot, then using the "rubber band" move.
When the sound is where you want it, the curve can be saved and assigned a name, and it will appear in the Presets list.
The "Preamp" slider adds gain and gives the system more power overall. Slide it right until the VU meter hits red. The app will automatically back the signal down until it's not overdriving or clipping.
Player controls appear as an overlay. Just tap the icon on the bottom with the blue border to bring it up. Tap again to hide it.
On the COMAND, Bass and Treble to 100%, Logic7 Off, Fader back to -3.
I'll post a thread with a more detailed write up at some point, but this should get folks started. Sadly, this option does not apply to streaming music services (Pandora, MOG, Rhapsody) etc. Also, music files must be resident on the device (not on ICloud).
The EQ app becomes your Music Player. Controls are pretty straightforward. The COMAND gets confused as far as Title and Artist info on the display. I set the playlist to shuffle all songs and just use Voice Command to skip tracks.
Enjoy!
05-14-2014, 01:01 PM
#58
The way to go is this:
1) Replace HK speakers with aftermarket ones. Going with a very complicated setup is often less effective. You want good speakers. Period. The HK speakers are still very, very cheap. Upgrading from base to HK doesn't upgrade to good speakers, it gives you the cheapest speakers that cover all frequencies at all.
2) Measure the frequency response you get afterwards.
3) Equalize a counterpart. You can use a real audio equalizer (a 12 V hardware 10-band EQ or so), you might be able to use something on a sufficiently fancy audio player such as a smartphone (never tried) or you can just run all your music files through a correction applied to the files.
I was on the way to do the latter but for the step #2 turned up with a boost only in an area where I actually wanted ones so I didn't bother.
Possible 4) is there is excessive resonance (boomy bass), rattle, sizzling go to a professional to get their opinion. Use the dampening material that comes with good aftermarket speakers while you put them in.
1) Replace HK speakers with aftermarket ones. Going with a very complicated setup is often less effective. You want good speakers. Period. The HK speakers are still very, very cheap. Upgrading from base to HK doesn't upgrade to good speakers, it gives you the cheapest speakers that cover all frequencies at all.
2) Measure the frequency response you get afterwards.
3) Equalize a counterpart. You can use a real audio equalizer (a 12 V hardware 10-band EQ or so), you might be able to use something on a sufficiently fancy audio player such as a smartphone (never tried) or you can just run all your music files through a correction applied to the files.
I was on the way to do the latter but for the step #2 turned up with a boost only in an area where I actually wanted ones so I didn't bother.
Possible 4) is there is excessive resonance (boomy bass), rattle, sizzling go to a professional to get their opinion. Use the dampening material that comes with good aftermarket speakers while you put them in.
Last edited by squid23; 05-14-2014 at 01:05 PM.
05-14-2014, 02:05 PM
#59
MBWorld Fanatic!
The way to go is this:
1) Replace HK speakers with aftermarket ones. Going with a very complicated setup is often less effective. You want good speakers. Period. The HK speakers are still very, very cheap. Upgrading from base to HK doesn't upgrade to good speakers, it gives you the cheapest speakers that cover all frequencies at all.
2) Measure the frequency response you get afterwards.
3) Equalize a counterpart. You can use a real audio equalizer (a 12 V hardware 10-band EQ or so), you might be able to use something on a sufficiently fancy audio player such as a smartphone (never tried) or you can just run all your music files through a correction applied to the files.
I was on the way to do the latter but for the step #2 turned up with a boost only in an area where I actually wanted ones so I didn't bother.
Possible 4) is there is excessive resonance (boomy bass), rattle, sizzling go to a professional to get their opinion. Use the dampening material that comes with good aftermarket speakers while you put them in.
1) Replace HK speakers with aftermarket ones. Going with a very complicated setup is often less effective. You want good speakers. Period. The HK speakers are still very, very cheap. Upgrading from base to HK doesn't upgrade to good speakers, it gives you the cheapest speakers that cover all frequencies at all.
2) Measure the frequency response you get afterwards.
3) Equalize a counterpart. You can use a real audio equalizer (a 12 V hardware 10-band EQ or so), you might be able to use something on a sufficiently fancy audio player such as a smartphone (never tried) or you can just run all your music files through a correction applied to the files.
I was on the way to do the latter but for the step #2 turned up with a boost only in an area where I actually wanted ones so I didn't bother.
Possible 4) is there is excessive resonance (boomy bass), rattle, sizzling go to a professional to get their opinion. Use the dampening material that comes with good aftermarket speakers while you put them in.
-The Harman Kardon Logic 7 is the base (standard) audio system, not an upgrade. The upgrade was the optional $6400 Bang & Olufsen system. Bose was never offered in the W221. It was the exclusive audio system in the W220.
-The 600 watt Harman Becker digital amp is a decent piece and is sufficient for high quality audio and most of the speakers are as well in a system that's properly tuned. While I was contemplating replacing the door mid range speakers with $600 Focal IFBMW-S direct replacements, the Focal rep advised there would not be a great difference simply because the Harman Kardon speakers aren't really that bad to begin with. They recommended the KRC 100.
-Having just installed the $670 Focal KRC100 components I can attest that they do not sound substantially better than the H&K components. In many ways, they augment some of the least desirable aspects of the system, in that they can be excessively bright. After tuning the crossover (and changing tweeters) they are very nice speakers although probably not worth the time or expense in the 221.
The speaker array in the W221. All are 4 ohm. Clockwise from center dash:
4" "Centerfill" speaker
1" softdome tweeter/4" midrange/8" dual coiled sub (Door Array)
8" full range woofer (Rear Door)
4" Right Rear Surround (parcel shelf)
1 Dual Coiled Primary Sub (Proprietary form factor)
4" Left Rear Surround
8" Full range woofer
1" softdome tweeter/4" midrange/8" dual coiled sub
After fixing the EQ, I'd replace the following, in order of priority and "bang for the buck":
-1" Harman Kardon silk dome tweeters with 1" Bose silk dome tweeters from a W220.
-4" Door mid range with Focal KRC 100 or Focal IFBMW-S
That will get you there. The shallow mount dual coiled door subs are replaceable with the Focak IFBMW-S dual coiled 8" sub, at $1000 for the set, but honestly the stock speakers do fine with bass reproduction.
The 8" full range speakers in the rear door are positioned low and just handle rear fill so I'd leave them alone.
The 4" center and two rear 4" surrounds are there only for sound field enhancement and I wouldn't bother with those either.
As you pointed out the majority of the issues lie in the factory EQ. I do not recommend batch-processing compensating equalization for all of your digital audio files. While it is true that each digital "bit" has an addressable level, manipulating the source files to that extent usually gives you a result that's heavily processed with a lot of artifact.
There are a couple of decent third party EQ apps that are available. The AudioForge Equalizer for IOS is especially good, however it will only apply EQ to local files (not streaming or on the cloud) and again it's modifying the file on the fly at the bit level which does not always sound natural.
A better solution as you indicated is to install a simple 12v EQ between your device and the Aux In and use it to suppress the mid range frequencies. The stock system can produce prolific amounts of bass. There are a total of three dual voice coil sub woofers in the car. One in each front door and one in the parcel shelf. Some careful tuning in the low end can cancel out any boominess and give you a solid kick drum "hit" as well.
05-14-2014, 02:47 PM
#60
As you pointed out the majority of the issues lie in the factory EQ. I do not recommend batch-processing compensating equalization for all of your digital audio files. While it is true that each digital "bit" has an addressable level, manipulating the source files to that extent usually gives you a result that's heavily processed with a lot of artifact.
On the contrary, when processing on the PC you can deliberately pick the most suitable or "best" EQ for the purpose. There are large differences, especially when you do not have to be "real time" (which isn't that real anyway). If you can accept a delay through the processing chain you can use digital EQ algorithms that do a lot less damage to the phase of the signal (they correct the phase after the fact but since they need to look back they introduce the delay).
Also, depending on the outcome of your measurement of the speakers you might need EQs with many or few bands, with steep flanks or not, or maybe you just need one parametric band. A fixed-frequency 7-band EQ is very unlikely to be optimal.
05-14-2014, 06:10 PM
#61
MBWorld Fanatic!
Okay, just to sum up, S Class owners should replace all of their speakers, or reprocess all of their music files, and if their bass is causing rattles they should take their car to a car stereo store to see if they can fix it.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't actually own or drive an S Class, and you've never worked on an S Class audio system. Would that be a fair statement?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't actually own or drive an S Class, and you've never worked on an S Class audio system. Would that be a fair statement?
05-14-2014, 08:32 PM
#62
05-14-2014, 08:58 PM
#63
MBWorld Fanatic!
So, no S Class then? I mean, you don't necessarily have to own an S Class to have an opinion on the sound system, but unless you've actually heard one and worked on one you can't really add anything of value to the discussion.
05-15-2014, 12:35 PM
#64
You know if I were you I would rather watch out for my reputation instead of saying " manipulating the source files to that extent usually gives you a result that's heavily processed with a lot of artifact" when describing the act of applying digital EQ the same way to either, except that you have a choice of picking a more suitable one if you preprocess.
05-15-2014, 01:26 PM
#65
MBWorld Fanatic!
If you were me you wouldn't be driving an entry-level BMW.
I'm not sure why you're hung up on whether or not I understand that an audio file modified and processed for equalization sounds the same as an audio file post processed by a DSP EQ. It's not the same process.
DSPs like the Dennison Bit 1, or the Prima 8.9, or the JL Cleansweep all start with an analog signal, convert it to line level if necessary, convert it to a digital signal, de-equalize it in real time, and then apply the users EQ and time correction.
Permanently modifying all of your audio files, whether or not you believe it doesn't add artifact, to compensate for the acoustic deficiencies in a specific car is silly and impractical. Just fix the acoustic deficiencies in the car and be done with it. Then all of your sources sound good and it's not necessary to modify anything at the individual file level.
The one aspect of your post I agree with is to use a 12v hardware EQ, and I've done exactly that. The rest I'm afraid is a lot of nonsense from a guy who apparently knows nothing specifically about the S550 Harman Kardon audio system and doesn't have anything of substance to add to the discussion, to wit:
What are you talking about? There is no "base". H&K is standard. And if you've never heard the system, or handled the OEM speakers, how do you know how "cheap" they are?
Clearly you're a very tech savvy guy. Could you explain, in laymen terms please, what a "fancy audio player" is? Would it be anything like this, from the post immediately before yours? https://mbworld.org/forums/6041810-post57.html
Brilliant!
I'm not sure why you're hung up on whether or not I understand that an audio file modified and processed for equalization sounds the same as an audio file post processed by a DSP EQ. It's not the same process.
DSPs like the Dennison Bit 1, or the Prima 8.9, or the JL Cleansweep all start with an analog signal, convert it to line level if necessary, convert it to a digital signal, de-equalize it in real time, and then apply the users EQ and time correction.
Permanently modifying all of your audio files, whether or not you believe it doesn't add artifact, to compensate for the acoustic deficiencies in a specific car is silly and impractical. Just fix the acoustic deficiencies in the car and be done with it. Then all of your sources sound good and it's not necessary to modify anything at the individual file level.
The one aspect of your post I agree with is to use a 12v hardware EQ, and I've done exactly that. The rest I'm afraid is a lot of nonsense from a guy who apparently knows nothing specifically about the S550 Harman Kardon audio system and doesn't have anything of substance to add to the discussion, to wit:
Upgrading from base to HK doesn't upgrade to good speakers, it gives you the cheapest speakers that cover all frequencies at all.
use something on a sufficiently fancy audio player such as a smartphone (never tried)
Possible 4) is there is excessive resonance (boomy bass), rattle, sizzling go to a professional to get their opinion
Last edited by Mike5215; 05-15-2014 at 01:43 PM.
02-09-2015, 12:59 PM
#66
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Thanks for the info
A couple of notes from someone who's done some upgrading.
-The Harman Kardon Logic 7 is the base (standard) audio system, not an upgrade. The upgrade was the optional $6400 Bang & Olufsen system. Bose was never offered in the W221. It was the exclusive audio system in the W220.
-The 600 watt Harman Becker digital amp is a decent piece and is sufficient for high quality audio and most of the speakers are as well in a system that's properly tuned. While I was contemplating replacing the door mid range speakers with $600 Focal IFBMW-S direct replacements, the Focal rep advised there would not be a great difference simply because the Harman Kardon speakers aren't really that bad to begin with. They recommended the KRC 100.
-Having just installed the $670 Focal KRC100 components I can attest that they do not sound substantially better than the H&K components. In many ways, they augment some of the least desirable aspects of the system, in that they can be excessively bright. After tuning the crossover (and changing tweeters) they are very nice speakers although probably not worth the time or expense in the 221.
The speaker array in the W221. All are 4 ohm. Clockwise from center dash:
4" "Centerfill" speaker
1" softdome tweeter/4" midrange/8" dual coiled sub (Door Array)
8" full range woofer (Rear Door)
4" Right Rear Surround (parcel shelf)
1 Dual Coiled Primary Sub (Proprietary form factor)
4" Left Rear Surround
8" Full range woofer
1" softdome tweeter/4" midrange/8" dual coiled sub
After fixing the EQ, I'd replace the following, in order of priority and "bang for the buck":
-1" Harman Kardon silk dome tweeters with 1" Bose silk dome tweeters from a W220.
-4" Door mid range with Focal KRC 100 or Focal IFBMW-S
That will get you there. The shallow mount dual coiled door subs are replaceable with the Focak IFBMW-S dual coiled 8" sub, at $1000 for the set, but honestly the stock speakers do fine with bass reproduction.
The 8" full range speakers in the rear door are positioned low and just handle rear fill so I'd leave them alone.
The 4" center and two rear 4" surrounds are there only for sound field enhancement and I wouldn't bother with those either.
As you pointed out the majority of the issues lie in the factory EQ. I do not recommend batch-processing compensating equalization for all of your digital audio files. While it is true that each digital "bit" has an addressable level, manipulating the source files to that extent usually gives you a result that's heavily processed with a lot of artifact.
There are a couple of decent third party EQ apps that are available. The AudioForge Equalizer for IOS is especially good, however it will only apply EQ to local files (not streaming or on the cloud) and again it's modifying the file on the fly at the bit level which does not always sound natural.
A better solution as you indicated is to install a simple 12v EQ between your device and the Aux In and use it to suppress the mid range frequencies. The stock system can produce prolific amounts of bass. There are a total of three dual voice coil sub woofers in the car. One in each front door and one in the parcel shelf. Some careful tuning in the low end can cancel out any boominess and give you a solid kick drum "hit" as well.
-The Harman Kardon Logic 7 is the base (standard) audio system, not an upgrade. The upgrade was the optional $6400 Bang & Olufsen system. Bose was never offered in the W221. It was the exclusive audio system in the W220.
-The 600 watt Harman Becker digital amp is a decent piece and is sufficient for high quality audio and most of the speakers are as well in a system that's properly tuned. While I was contemplating replacing the door mid range speakers with $600 Focal IFBMW-S direct replacements, the Focal rep advised there would not be a great difference simply because the Harman Kardon speakers aren't really that bad to begin with. They recommended the KRC 100.
-Having just installed the $670 Focal KRC100 components I can attest that they do not sound substantially better than the H&K components. In many ways, they augment some of the least desirable aspects of the system, in that they can be excessively bright. After tuning the crossover (and changing tweeters) they are very nice speakers although probably not worth the time or expense in the 221.
The speaker array in the W221. All are 4 ohm. Clockwise from center dash:
4" "Centerfill" speaker
1" softdome tweeter/4" midrange/8" dual coiled sub (Door Array)
8" full range woofer (Rear Door)
4" Right Rear Surround (parcel shelf)
1 Dual Coiled Primary Sub (Proprietary form factor)
4" Left Rear Surround
8" Full range woofer
1" softdome tweeter/4" midrange/8" dual coiled sub
After fixing the EQ, I'd replace the following, in order of priority and "bang for the buck":
-1" Harman Kardon silk dome tweeters with 1" Bose silk dome tweeters from a W220.
-4" Door mid range with Focal KRC 100 or Focal IFBMW-S
That will get you there. The shallow mount dual coiled door subs are replaceable with the Focak IFBMW-S dual coiled 8" sub, at $1000 for the set, but honestly the stock speakers do fine with bass reproduction.
The 8" full range speakers in the rear door are positioned low and just handle rear fill so I'd leave them alone.
The 4" center and two rear 4" surrounds are there only for sound field enhancement and I wouldn't bother with those either.
As you pointed out the majority of the issues lie in the factory EQ. I do not recommend batch-processing compensating equalization for all of your digital audio files. While it is true that each digital "bit" has an addressable level, manipulating the source files to that extent usually gives you a result that's heavily processed with a lot of artifact.
There are a couple of decent third party EQ apps that are available. The AudioForge Equalizer for IOS is especially good, however it will only apply EQ to local files (not streaming or on the cloud) and again it's modifying the file on the fly at the bit level which does not always sound natural.
A better solution as you indicated is to install a simple 12v EQ between your device and the Aux In and use it to suppress the mid range frequencies. The stock system can produce prolific amounts of bass. There are a total of three dual voice coil sub woofers in the car. One in each front door and one in the parcel shelf. Some careful tuning in the low end can cancel out any boominess and give you a solid kick drum "hit" as well.
I've been looking for some definitive info on just what exactly was in this car as far as speakers go. Nothing even on that Startek websibte either in terms of sizes. Now i have info to work with as i am replacing all the speakers. I orginally just added a JL Audio 13tw5 in the trunk but now i need to get rid of the cabin speakers. I didn't do any tuning like i should have, but i have a JL Audio cleansweep i never installed and will be starting there.
02-09-2015, 02:04 PM
#67
MBWorld Fanatic!
Hmmm. The problem with a DSP and the stock HK is that normally you'd pick up low voltage signal before it reached the stock amp. Because the stock amp is optical on the input side, you'd need to pick up signal instead on the high voltage side of the stock amp, then use an external line level converters for each channel (or your DSP's converters if they have them)
There are 14 channels in the car and the Cleansweep has 4 out plus a sub, so a bunch of stuff is either going to be omitted, or run through the stock amp with the factory equalization intact, which sort of defeats the point of the Cleansweep.
I'd steer clear of messing with the stock gateway if possible and spend the money on the speakers first. If that doesn't cut it you could always get into adding a DSP.
Maybe
There are 14 channels in the car and the Cleansweep has 4 out plus a sub, so a bunch of stuff is either going to be omitted, or run through the stock amp with the factory equalization intact, which sort of defeats the point of the Cleansweep.
I'd steer clear of messing with the stock gateway if possible and spend the money on the speakers first. If that doesn't cut it you could always get into adding a DSP.
Maybe
02-09-2015, 02:22 PM
#68
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2007 s550
dont think my response posted but anyway what my idea/plan is to bypass everything altogether and come straight off the head unit to the cleansweep. i know these systems are tricky but i want to go straight conventional with a 3 way setup in the front stage, some decent coaxials in the rear and my sub in the trunk...thats it.
02-09-2015, 02:30 PM
#69
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since you've actually done this, just how much depth am i working with in these doors? i found this on ebay...although i'm sure they won't fit circumference wise, id still like the to know what the mounting depth is.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MB-QUART-QM200-3BMW-2YR-WRNTY-480W-3-WAY-BMW-FACTORY-REPLACEMENT-SPEAKER-SYSTEM/191129601868?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29171%26meid%3Da18544ce95c44e0c9f77a17d5b938488%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D120763030671&rt=nc
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MB-QUART-QM200-3BMW-2YR-WRNTY-480W-3-WAY-BMW-FACTORY-REPLACEMENT-SPEAKER-SYSTEM/191129601868?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29171%26meid%3Da18544ce95c44e0c9f77a17d5b938488%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D120763030671&rt=nc
02-09-2015, 02:37 PM
#70
MBWorld Fanatic!
dont think my response posted but anyway what my idea/plan is to bypass everything altogether and come straight off the head unit to the cleansweep. i know these systems are tricky but i want to go straight conventional with a 3 way setup in the front stage, some decent coaxials in the rear and my sub in the trunk...thats it.
02-09-2015, 02:48 PM
#71
MBWorld Fanatic!
since you've actually done this, just how much depth am i working with in these doors? i found this on ebay...although i'm sure they won't fit circumference wise, id still like the to know what the mounting depth is.
MB Quart QM200 3BMW 2yr Wrnty 480W 3 Way BMW Factory Replacement Speaker System | eBay
MB Quart QM200 3BMW 2yr Wrnty 480W 3 Way BMW Factory Replacement Speaker System | eBay
The woofer enclosure is very shallow. The OEM woofer in the front door is 8" in diameter and maybe an inch and a half deep. There is some room between the front of the module and the door panel if you wanted to build up the front of the woofer enclosure to fit a standard 8" sub with maybe 4" or so of depth. Personally I'd leave the door subs alone, replace the 4" midrange (any 4" 4 ohm will fit with minor modification, or the Focal IFBMW line is a direct fit.) and the tweets, although really the OEM tweets are fine.
If I had to do the door subs, I'd go again with the Focal IFBMW-S which is a drop in piece. There was also a drop in from a company called "Gladen" that was less money but didn't look much more substantial than OEM. I did a write up on a set of 4" Goldwood midrange woofers that sounded very nice and were around $25 for the set.
What are you looking for in terms of audio quality? What is it about the OEM system you want to improve?
02-09-2015, 02:53 PM
#72
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2007 s550
well there goes that initial plan...lol...on to plan b whatever that is. but thx for the info...first time i've gotten some definitive answers about this setup in the s class.
02-09-2015, 02:55 PM
#73
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yeah, it took me a solid year to figure it out. Sounds fricking amazing now though. Like night and day amazing. Hit that link on the bottom of my sig for write ups on the process I used. (Scroll to the oldest post on the bottom and work up.
Last edited by Mike5215; 02-09-2015 at 03:06 PM.
02-09-2015, 03:13 PM
#74
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i think i have some blown speakers thats why i am looking into changing things out. i figured since i was in there might as well upgrade. just like any other garage grease monkey i have installed my share of systems, but this thing drives ya nuts. but i gotta have my sound though so in i go. good idea on the buffing up the mounting depth on the door subs i might just try that but i will look into your suggestions. i like going straight unconventional but damn again this thing drives ya nuts.
02-09-2015, 03:28 PM
#75
MBWorld Fanatic!
i think i have some blown speakers thats why i am looking into changing things out. i figured since i was in there might as well upgrade. just like any other garage grease monkey i have installed my share of systems, but this thing drives ya nuts. but i gotta have my sound though so in i go. good idea on the buffing up the mounting depth on the door subs i might just try that but i will look into your suggestions. i like going straight unconventional but damn again this thing drives ya nuts.
.I guess my advice would be to leave the factory amp in place. It has plenty of power but it's choked back by a very thin sounding factory EQ. Fix the EQ on the source side instead.
For speakers, everything in the car is conventional sized, conventional mounted, conventional depth plain old 4 ohm car audio speakers except:
-The 8" dual coil shallow subs in the front doors
-The 8x10" dual coil shallow mount sub on the rear deck.
The speakers that have to go are any with the Alumaprene drivers. They suck and combined with the factory EQ...forget it. Those would be the 4" midranges in the front doors, and the 6" woofers in the rear doors.
There are 2 additional 4" Alumaprenes as rear surrounds in the back deck and in the center dash. They're harder to access and don't get a ton of signal. Unless they're blown I'd leave them and the three stock subs alone. I can get them to hit really hard just by futzing with the EQ on my IPhone.
Actually, I just got an invite from the programmer of the AudioForge EQ IOS app to Beta test the latest release and it sounds great and adds a new crossfeed adjustment to fine tune the stereo imaging and sound stage.
If you're ever in Florida swing by for a listen.
