Anyone Know The Length Of The Stock Lug Bolts?
#26
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W215 V12TT Build by Speedriven, W221 S550 4Matic
Order came in today. Got everything installed a few hours ago.. Took it for a test run... hit a few aggressive dips, hard u-turns, Bumps etc... No rub so far. Definitely had to trim the rear wheel well tabs since it's as close to edge you'd ever wanna to get...., & wire brush the hell out of the hubs so the spacers lay perfectly flat. Lugs where crazy long, but definitely the right sizes.. Here's a few before & after pics:
Before:
After:
Before:
After:
A few more thumbnails of finished product below:
Before:
After:
Before:
After:
A few more thumbnails of finished product below:
#28
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#29
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s550 4matic Key To The Cure Edition, Can-Am Spyder RSS
Got one rear on!
That is not a typo. Right rear 20mm went on no problem. I even took my one spacer out for a test spin because if there was any funny business it was coming back off and the whole order was going on EBay. But it rode fine. In fact it seemed like it rode better than stock, although I think this may be caused by the same psychological phenomenon that makes three year olds think their new sneakers make them run faster.
Sadly, I have those funky knurled OEM lug bolts and I could not break them loose without the wrench slipping and taking metal with it every time, so I decided I'll run it up to my wheel guy in the morning and he can deal with the other three wheels.
It does look great though. I don't think I'm going to drop unless for some reason the fronts don't look as flush and tight as the rear.
That is not a typo. Right rear 20mm went on no problem. I even took my one spacer out for a test spin because if there was any funny business it was coming back off and the whole order was going on EBay. But it rode fine. In fact it seemed like it rode better than stock, although I think this may be caused by the same psychological phenomenon that makes three year olds think their new sneakers make them run faster.
Sadly, I have those funky knurled OEM lug bolts and I could not break them loose without the wrench slipping and taking metal with it every time, so I decided I'll run it up to my wheel guy in the morning and he can deal with the other three wheels.
It does look great though. I don't think I'm going to drop unless for some reason the fronts don't look as flush and tight as the rear.
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Yeah, but if you notice, They're shorter than the oem lugs, & cone vs ball seat. No idea why they even included those in the box.
They look like them short A$$ lugs you were ABOUT to order...
They look like them short A$$ lugs you were ABOUT to order...
Last edited by ramos226; 04-10-2014 at 07:18 PM.
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I wouldn't say the oem lugs are junk.. The issue with them are the fact that MB caps the lug with a fancy chrome cover that are almost always warped when shops use impact wrenches on them. If you go through the life of the lug & never use an impact wrench, you'd probably never have an issue.
#32
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Rip off! I didn't get any free useless bolts. Just the big ones I ordered. I'm never going to live down the thing about the shorter lugs, am I?
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To be honest, it was NOT supposed to come with any lugs in the first place. I was gonna send the whole shipment back when I first opened the box. Both boxes had labels that were marked with the correct part number, but incorrect description. Take a look at the images... I ordered 15mm front, 20mm rear. Yet, the labels say different.. AND... I got 10 lugs in the box that had the 15mm spacers... One of the 15mm spacers looked like it had been test fitted too.. I was tempted to send the whole thing back. If I wasn't so anxious to get them mounted, I probably would've returned it. I made sure the spacers themselves were H&R stamped & had all the normal markings, but thought that was weird.
#34
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One thing to note.... When/If you drop, it will almost always cause a negative camber issue. This will obviously cause irregular inside tire wear & put stress on the inner wheel edge. I took a level to all 4 wheels.. They all have negative camber, but the rear is kinda concerning me. You MIGHT not have that issue since you don't plan to drop, but you still might. Not sure if there's a camber kit for the w221 these days. I need to research that. The rear is noticeable by just standing back & eyballing it.
Important to realize ex-factory there is only front and rear "Toe" adjustment for virtually all Mercedes models.
No Camber and Caster adjustment capacity to reduce costly, premature inner edge tire wear and increase traction. Also to resolve steering pull and improve steering response along with quicker turn in and reduced dive/lift on brake and acceleration.
K-MAC saw the need and manufacture front and rear kits essential to allow you to return vehicle to factory specs (and have ongoing adjustment) after curb knock damage, altering height, load carrying or fitting wide profile tires.
The patented K-MAC design required no special tools to install. Both front and rear only require a single wrench to precisely adjust/change settings.
Promotional offer for April for MB World member in USA and Canada.
FedEx Air freight $25 one kit or $35 for Front and rear kits (normally $70 and $85)
#35
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Thanks to Ramos for doing all the legwork on this. Here she sits on staggered S63 20's and spacers. Lowering links enroute.
Stock:
No Spacers
20's & Spacers 20mm R/15mm F
While I did the spacers entirely for improved appearance, the car handles so much better with them. It's like it shed 500 pounds. Now the "sport" Airmatic mode, "sport" transmission mode and paddle shifters actually make sense. No vibration at all from the spacers either.
Stock:
No Spacers
20's & Spacers 20mm R/15mm F
While I did the spacers entirely for improved appearance, the car handles so much better with them. It's like it shed 500 pounds. Now the "sport" Airmatic mode, "sport" transmission mode and paddle shifters actually make sense. No vibration at all from the spacers either.
Last edited by Mike5215; 04-11-2014 at 04:52 PM.
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VERY nice... My chrome lug caps came in today. Nice little caps... I think it'll be a nice touch. I'll take some before & after pics when I get them installed tomorrow. By the way... which links are you going with?
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So we're both on OEM 20's and I think both cars look good, but not quite as sinister as the cars that dropped on 21's. I'm thinking when it's time for new tires maybe a wheel upgrade is coming as well.
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Thanks. The photos don't do it justice...not enough contrast between the car and the wheels...but I'm very happy with the new look and improved handling. I had AAR's on my 220 and while they're nice pieces, it was a pain yanking them off and resizing them, so this time I went with GL.
So we're both on OEM 20's and I think both cars look good, but not quite as sinister as the cars that dropped on 21's. I'm thinking when it's time for new tires maybe a wheel upgrade is coming as well.
So we're both on OEM 20's and I think both cars look good, but not quite as sinister as the cars that dropped on 21's. I'm thinking when it's time for new tires maybe a wheel upgrade is coming as well.
#39
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What I do like about the look is that at first glance the car is completely stock. But then there's just something about the car that looks so much better than stock. If you were only casually familiar with the 221 you'd be hard pressed to know why. From a resale value standpoint it's the best of both worlds.
As far as the 21's go, you could go with a square set up at 9.5 all around.
As far as the 21's go, you could go with a square set up at 9.5 all around.
Last edited by Mike5215; 04-12-2014 at 01:33 PM.
#40
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Question about the negative camber observed as a result of the added spacers: It is understandable that the spacers caused a change in load geometry, but why wouldn't the airmatic levelers pick that up and bring the suspension back to level?
#41
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From my experience the car has no trouble taking the lower offset wheels, either by design or with the use of spacers. Offset does not affect alignment. The only potential downside I've encountered with spacers is the possibilty of inducing vibration, but the HR Trak for the 221 are undetectable as far as vibrations.
They're a very inexpensive mod that really improves the car's look and stance on OEM wheels. Handling will also tighten up a smidge. Highly recommended.
#42
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This is all theory:
Imagine a factory setup with factory offset. Now imagine a certain amount of load of that the wheel and spindle exert on the spring/suspension.
Next imagine a very wide spacer, like three feet wide, pushing the wheel out three feet from the car. Can you now visualize the extra load on the suspension? In this example, the springs may not even be able to keep the car off the ground. The result is that the wheel will pivot into the negative camber position until the car bottoms out. In the case of an airmatic suspension, I would imagine that the sensors will "see" that the suspension is bottoming out and attempt to compensate and bring the geometry back to normal.
Using the above extreme example, I would imagine that ANY change in spindle length outward (spacers) will change the load on the suspension, thereby affecting height and camber (assuming the contact patch does not change).
Contact patch, if one were using wider a wheel, can redistribute the load (if the patch extends equally inward). But in this case, we are talking about spacers only.
Please check my logic/sanity.
I absolutely believe that, at reasonable extensions, that there are no unwanted side effects, I am just curious about ramos226's observations of the negative camber. Did it occur *after* the spacers and why did the suspension not compensate?
Imagine a factory setup with factory offset. Now imagine a certain amount of load of that the wheel and spindle exert on the spring/suspension.
Next imagine a very wide spacer, like three feet wide, pushing the wheel out three feet from the car. Can you now visualize the extra load on the suspension? In this example, the springs may not even be able to keep the car off the ground. The result is that the wheel will pivot into the negative camber position until the car bottoms out. In the case of an airmatic suspension, I would imagine that the sensors will "see" that the suspension is bottoming out and attempt to compensate and bring the geometry back to normal.
Using the above extreme example, I would imagine that ANY change in spindle length outward (spacers) will change the load on the suspension, thereby affecting height and camber (assuming the contact patch does not change).
Contact patch, if one were using wider a wheel, can redistribute the load (if the patch extends equally inward). But in this case, we are talking about spacers only.
Please check my logic/sanity.
I absolutely believe that, at reasonable extensions, that there are no unwanted side effects, I am just curious about ramos226's observations of the negative camber. Did it occur *after* the spacers and why did the suspension not compensate?
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Magnus Rostadmo (09-13-2017)
#43
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I think to whatever extent the spacers cause the body to squat more on the suspension the Airmatic would sense the reduced ride height and compensate (within the range of adjustment the system has at its disposal.)
Maybe the reason I saw no excessive inside wear when I put the 20mm spacers on was because the system did compensate.
Maybe the reason I saw no excessive inside wear when I put the 20mm spacers on was because the system did compensate.
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Magnus Rostadmo (09-13-2017)
#46
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BTW, I remember reading a thread about two months ago related to you making a trip to the dealer because of vibration, and the tech installed the spacers because they were in the trunk. What was that about?
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I agree, but the H/R bolts only come in 55 or 60mm. If I went with a 12mm spacer, I am adding 12 to 45, which is 57. It will either be too short by 2mm or too long by 3mm. If the 60mm does not over penetrate and interfere with something on the back of the hub (haven't taken the wheel off to see), I would go with the 60.
BTW, I remember reading a thread about two months ago related to you making a trip to the dealer because of vibration, and the tech installed the spacers because they were in the trunk. What was that about?
BTW, I remember reading a thread about two months ago related to you making a trip to the dealer because of vibration, and the tech installed the spacers because they were in the trunk. What was that about?
Spacers definitely can add vibration...it's just an extra piece of rolling mass and it has to be perfectly machined, and it can't be balanced out like a wheel or tire. The safer solution by far is to buy a set of wheels that already have a lower offset. Most aftermarket wheels and replica wheels are 35mm.
On the bolts, I guess I'd go 3mm over. There should be plenty of run out room on the back of the hub. Stick a finger in there and see what's what.