Mike5215

Looked everywhere. Anybody happen to know?

ramos226

Rounded seat, & about 1 3/4"..... Pulled one off a few hours ago to order my spacers..

Mike5215

Thanks! They're sized by millimeter. I get 45mm converting 1.75 inches. which sounds about right.

What size spacers are you going with?

ramos226

Yeah, That's what I get.. 45mm.. I keep measuring every day to make sure I don't screw up..... I'm OCD with this kinda crap... I'm set on the H&R 20mm for the rear, & probably the 15mm for the front. When I measure my setup, those sizes will put me right at the inner fender with little to no play at all for front. Rears will have a hair of play with 20mm, but kinda makes me think twice about the front. On the fence on whether to go 12mm to be safe. I have a 255/35/20 on 20x8.5 with a +43 offset all around.. I'm looking at these H&R lugs on their website:

Front:
1456002 14 X 1.5" 60mm Mercedes Ball 17mm 4.45 Each
Rear:
1456502 14 X 1.5" 65mm Mercedes Ball 17mm 4.45 Each

Mike5215

When I did my 220, which has an identical OEM set up aside from 1mm of offset, I bought 10mm HR Traks for the front. When I tried to install them, the flange on the spacers didn't seem to want to clear the hub. I called the manufacturer and spoke with a tech and he advised that only their 5mm product made specifically for the front hub could be used on the front on the 220 and that the front and rear hub configurations are slightly different.

Looking online yesterday at Eclklers (HR doesn't sell direct) using their shop by vehicle function showed nothing at all from HR for the front of a 221. Let me know if you discover otherwise. I'd like to stick with HR if possible.

On the lugs, OEM wheels take the MB ball, but most aftermarket wheels take an Audi ball and the two look almost identical, in case you're wheels aren't MB.













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ramos226

The H&R site looks like it tells you if the fitment is front or rear only in their notes. I assume if it doesn't say, then it can fit on either Front or Rear. Now you got me questioning it... I'm gonna call them tomorrow before placing my order. These are the fitment guides from their site for w221 non 4matic, & 4matic. I placed red arrows next to what I'm likely going with.

ramos226

Measuring for the 43rd time with my Handy Dandy measuring stick:

Mike5215

You definitely want to be right on the sizes. HR won't accept returns.I think 20mm and 15mm will be a tight fit but they'll look great.

The fronts don't look as tucked in as the rears to start with. That plus I feel like the larger the spacers the more likely you'll get vibrations up front, where you're going to feel them. I'd probably do 10mm up front, 20mm rear. 5mm is less than 1/4 inch.

Looking on the HR bolt page, if we're working from an OEM length of 45mm and then adding for the spacers we'd be at some very long bolts. For some reason 28mm seems to be the number I remember for OEM. Is your measurement 1 1/4 inches overall or just the shank?

If 28mm is actually the magic number, this would be the HR Order on the 2010: ( I think 09 gets a different set of parts on the website)

Safe Front Config

Spacers
DR 20mm Rear Only 4055665
DR 12mm Front Only 24556659

Lugs
1455002 14 X 1.5" 50mm Mercedes Ball Rear (20 + 28= 48mm)
1454002 14 X 1.5" 40mm Mercedes Ball Front (12 + 28 = 40mm)

Wider Front Config

Spacers
DR 20mm Rear Only 4055665
DR 15mm Front Only 30556659

Lugs
1455002 14 X 1.5" 50mm Mercedes Ball Rear (20 + 28= 48mm)
1454302 14 X 1.5" 43mm Mercedes Ball Front (15 + 28= 43mm)

kamilclk430

Mike car will look great post pics when done go 15 front and 20 rear

ramos226

I wanna be near flush with no rub. I think I'll be ok... I Hope... I plan on keeping a modest drop with this one. Not going any lower than I am right now, so hopefully that will prevent any rubbing from happening. My last one was dropped pretty low. There's a sweet spot before you start causing negative camber & strain on the wheels. I'm pretty set on the 15mm & 20mm. As far as the lug length, The proof is in the pic I posted. The shank is about 45mm. I'm going with 60mm lugs for front, & 65mm for rear. I followed H&R's instructions to the T. They go by the measurement from the seat to the end of the shank; Not just the treaded part of the shank.



btw.. I'm getting everything from here: http://www.frsport.com/

Just plug in these part #'s if you interested in the same:
Part: 1456502
Part: 1456002
Part: 3055665
Part: 4055665

$247.50 Total..

Mike5215

Hell with it. Order placed. Used your numbers for bolt lengths. Now the real fun begins. Considering a STAR 1" drop since I didn't plan on going too low anyway.

ramos226

.. I'll be right behind you.. I was just about to wish you luck on those short a$$ lugs. Don't forget to dremel the tabs from the rear wheel wells before mounting everything, to prevent rubbing when you go over bumps & crap.

btw..
I just ordered these from ebay to cap the lugs. I don't think the H&R lugs are chromed. A little touch & under 20 bucks..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201062032049...84.m1423.l2649

ramos226

FYI.. Called frsport.com... They're backordered for 3 weeks.. Found better site...

http://thmotorsports.com/

The spacers were a $85.35 a set

The lugs were something ridiculous like $12.37 each, but they price matched jrsport at $3.78 per.

Total was $246.30

Best part... They ship from my same county in PA, so I'll get them tomorrow.

Mike5215

Cool. Now you can be the guinea pig instead of me.

Edit: Got an automated email that the order was packed and awaiting shipment. Maybe I cleaned them out of stock which would be sad since I was using your website recommendation and your part numbers. Glad you were able to get yours anyway.

ramos226

Order came in today. Got everything installed a few hours ago.. Took it for a test run... hit a few aggressive dips, hard u-turns, Bumps etc... No rub so far. Definitely had to trim the rear wheel well tabs since it's as close to edge you'd ever wanna to get...., & wire brush the hell out of the hubs so the spacers lay perfectly flat. Lugs where crazy long, but definitely the right sizes.. Here's a few before & after pics:

Before:


After:


Before:


After:


A few more thumbnails of finished product below:

ramos226

Here's a comparison pic of the rear 65mm H&R Lug, compared to the stock OEM 45mm lug.

I'm glad I purchased those chrome lug caps from ebay.... It'll finish things off.

ramos226

One thing to note.... When/If you drop, it will almost always cause a negative camber issue. This will obviously cause irregular inside tire wear & put stress on the inner wheel edge. I took a level to all 4 wheels.. They all have negative camber, but the rear is kinda concerning me. You MIGHT not have that issue since you don't plan to drop, but you still might. Not sure if there's a camber kit for the w221 these days. I need to research that. The rear is noticeable by just standing back & eyballing it.

Mike5215

That's "the look" right there! Did you get a chance to run it at highway speed for vibration? I'm not even contemplating the drop until I'm sure the spacers will run smooth. I love the wider stance but not to the extent I'd compromise the stock ride. Firmer is okay, just no wobbly nonsense.

ramos226

That'll have to wait till tomorrow morning on my way to work... I'll let you know.

Mike5215

How was the commute? Still have all your fillings?

ramos226

So far, no issues.. held 85mph for at least 1 minute both going & coming..., hit some hight speed dips in the road too.. No wobble or vibration at all.... still rides as smooth as it did with no spacers. All good so far

Only thing that's still concerning me is the negative camber in the rear. I called my MB shop about it. They said they have a camber kit, $100 per wheel, and another $100 for wheel alignment.. I'm taking it in next Thursday to do the rear. Gonna leave the front alone since it doesn't look as obvious.

Mike5215

Good news all around. Still waiting for my parts. I see what you mean about the negative camber. It's odd that the other dropped guys aren't seeing that. Do you think the wider rears (they seem to be running 10" or 10.5") fight the camber more and just get their inside tread chewed up more?

ramos226

Absolutely... My last w221 with 21x10.5 & 10mm spacers in the rear was dropped even lower, & the negative camber was a non-issue. I did have an issue with the front tho, at 21x9 with a 5mm spacer.

Mike5215

Got one rear on!

That is not a typo. Right rear 20mm went on no problem. I even took my one spacer out for a test spin because if there was any funny business it was coming back off and the whole order was going on EBay. But it rode fine. In fact it seemed like it rode better than stock, although I think this may be caused by the same psychological phenomenon that makes three year olds think their new sneakers make them run faster.

Sadly, I have those funky knurled OEM lug bolts and I could not break them loose without the wrench slipping and taking metal with it every time, so I decided I'll run it up to my wheel guy in the morning and he can deal with the other three wheels.

It does look great though. I don't think I'm going to drop unless for some reason the fronts don't look as flush and tight as the rear.

kamilclk430

Those bolts are junk get new ines when you can or you can just get a 17 socket hammer it on and get it bck out