cstrong3240

I'm new to the board as a member, but have read many threads and always found them helpful. I've had a remarkably trouble-free ride with the '08 S550 and truly enjoy it. Recently, one of the front air struts went bad, so the other one, the rear and the pump may be coming soon? I started to experience some knocking around the rear right tire on bumps and a bit of rough idle on start-up. Went to my indi a few days ago and the diagnosis was rear swaybar, motor and tranny mounts. Anybody have and idea of what all that should cost? I looked at a youtube of the swaybar replacement and it looks like a lot of labor. Front strut replacement was about $1400. I'm due for some minor stuff like a transmission flush and new spark plugs as well. The washer pump recently went bad, and I replaced that over the weekend.

Is this major service hit on the suspension predictable and to be endured and then the rest of the car should be good to go for quite a while or am I being naive and other systems will start wearing out as well? At that point, it's not only cost, but the time for repeated repair visits I've blissfully avoided until now. On the other side of this, there are many '12 S550 vehicles coming off lease with around 20k on them for low 50k range. Most likely, my car plus 30k does the trick. I've driven a '12. The turbo engine has a lot more torque and I like the driver assist with the blindspot sensors, but much of the rest of it is the same. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

p30amg08

If you can afford it. Trade it in. Whats your time worth? Cost to keeping it is. More maintenance, repairs,down time, and your time.

Quadcammer

Eh, if you like your current car, nothing on your list would phase me. Will stuff go wrong occasionally, sure.

Sway bar replacement and motor/tranny mounts should be around $1500 at an honest indy mechanic.

Air suspension stuff, you should be looking at Arnott Industries. Pumps are cheap, and reman struts aren't bad either.

If you want the new car because of the new motor and don't mind spending the money, go for it. Do I think its a shame and that you'll be leaving a lot of car on the table...yes.

Mike5215

Dump it. An S Class (and I'm on my 3rd) never settles into a "well we got the big stuff handled so now it should be smooth sailing" mode. It's a continuous roulette. If you want to know how many systems on an aging S are likely to fail over time, count the total number of systems and divide by nothing.

Follow your instincts and get into a fresher car, and don't forget the full extended CPO warranty if you plan on keeping the car longer than your loan.

Quadcammer

Eh, I disagree with that. Its a 6 year old car, its not like its ancient.

there are still plenty of w220s with 150k+ miles and 10+ years out there driving fine.

Mike5215

Sure there are. Unfortunately their owners have spent about three times what the cars are worth keeping them driving fine. A high mileage S Class out of warranty is a very bad idea. How long have you had yours and what's your mileage?

despicable merc

Not entirely true! Most of w220 that i see have blown shocks. Not too mention what's inside the car. S Class is a rich car. If i were to get one i would only get it new and lease. Other than that no go especially used.

Nuru

This also depends on how much you are driving the car, and how well it is maintained too. Arnott industries can provide you with reman Air structs with a lifetime warranty for 1/3 the MB cost for new replacements. There are videos online to show you how to replace the struts and the pumps. If you can get a good deal on the 2012 - 2013 W221, then go for it. However take a look at what that will cost (you indicate $30k) versus what you would spend to get your suspension back to snuff ($3k, $5k?). If this is not your everyday car, then I would just go for the suspension repair, but if it is your everyday car and you have the funds, and you can find the deal you can afford, then the trade-up is a good option - as the TT-equipped is a fun car to drive.

Quadcammer

Eh, from what I've seen and in my personal experience, they don't cost THAT much, especially if you can do your own work.

I've had mine for about 6.5 years and have about 55,000 miles. My car has been a bit of a ***** lately, but it hasn't been hatefully expensive to repair...about $1,000 this year.


Doubtful. If they had "blown shocks" they would not be driving around. Not to mention, a single blown strut can be replaced with a better alternative for under $500.

The inside of my car held up fine and it sits outside 24/7/365.

Very much so.

Look, the cheaper option by far is to keep the 08. Its still a good looking car and while it may have some repairs, they shouldn't be earth shattering given the profound quality improvements you all claim occurred on the 221.

So I put the bottom line as this:

If you want a '12, get it because you want it, not because your 08 had a few grand in repairs.

Mike5215

The true bottom line is the value of the car versus the potential repair costs. So a 2008 S550 4 Matic has a value of $22k to $25k, and that's in "very good" condition with everything working, no un-repaired body or interior damage, four matching tires at 80% tread depth, etc. A couple of repairs easily run 25% of that...money you'll never recover at resale because the car has to be fully operational to have any decent value at all.

For example, my 06 S500 in 2012 had 103,000 miles on it and a value of around $16,000 when the transmission imploded. Cost at an indie shop, using a reman'd tranny was $6,000. I had to do it of course, because without a tranny it's a salvage piece worth $500. But obviously that $6,000 added not a single penny to the value of the car. It was still worth the same $16k.

So the issue is, had I dumped the car at 102,000 miles and not taken the hit, I'd have been ahead $6k. When deciding to keep or trade, look at the actual value of the car versus the potential repair costs. In the instance of my 06, the repair that I was forced to make was nearly 40% of the value of the car itself. Crazy.

One more point. All of these vague, anecdotal feel-good rationalizations about "cars out there trouble free at 150,000 miles" are one thing. Let me share with you how it is from the inside.

Back when I bought my 06 S500, my salesman was a new guy at the dealership. He and his wife, who also worked at the dealership, were expecting their first baby. When I brought the car in for service, the sales guy was now my service writer. He explained that sales were too unpredictable and he needed a steady income.

Then the economy crashed and things got really bad for them. She had an infant and couldn't work because they couldn't afford daycare. His service job had a commission component to it and he was making nothing extra there. My wife and I own two preschoools, so I hired his wife and gave them 75% off daycare. She worked for us through the whole downturn and eventually got hired at a real job and they survived the recession largely because of us.

Short version, I get treated really well at that dealership for service. So when my 06 hit 100k miles and fell off CPO, he called me and told me to dump the car. This is a guy who sees hundreds of cars and deals with hundreds of victims of nasty unexpected repairs. In fact, he makes his living writing repair tickets. I, at the time, subscribed to the myth that the car was bulletproof as far as reliability, because Mercedes had spent $13k in warranty repairs and I believed everything that might go bad had already gone bad, so I brushed him off.

He, of course, was 100% right and would have saved me $6k that I would never see again.

Finally, have a look at the forum topics on the W220 forum and count how many deal with unexpected repairs. Try to find those guys with 150,000 miles that just pay for oil changes and tires once in awhile. Good luck with that.

wilassasin

I wouldn't go from an 08' to a facelift 2012 when we are already on the 2nd year of an even newer model 222. There are a few changes between the models but in reality it will be like having the same car, then you have to factor how many yrs would you keep the 2012. Unless you just love the car that much and don't care or always wanted the facelift, otherwise I would just fix the current one or get a whole new car maybe a cls or something.

Atcpup

I don't see how forum reports would be an accurate depiction of repair occurrences or cost. I would guess that only a small percentage of owners actually use a forum. And the ones that do are the ones that are seeking help with a problem, not the one's that are not experiencing issues.

Mike5215

Not true. It's an enthusiasts forum just like every other board here. It should attract a mix of posts just like the 221 forum currently does. Is the 221 forum only populated by owners having problems? When there are a disproportionate number of repair complaints it's a good indication of what owners of older, higher mileage cars are experiencing.

A few years back, the 220 forum looked exactly like what the 221 forum looks like now. A mix of threads about mods, operational questions, and the occasional plea for help with repair issues. Today, the 220 forum is almost exclusively limited to repair complaints. In a few more years as the 221s continue to age this forum will look the same. But if the opinions about reliability and repair costs from a MB service writer weren't convincing enough I can't help you.

It reminds me of the joke about the guy who throws himself off the roof of a ten story building, and all the way down he's thinking "This isn't so bad". The OP's question was if he bites the bullet and puts money into the suspension repair, is that going to be the end of it, or is he likely to experience more issues down the road. The answer is that he is likely to experience more issues that require throwing good money after bad.

cstrong3240

Here's my thinking: I bought the '08 with less then 20k miles and now have 92k miles. It's been a great car in many ways, especially quiet highways in Texas with the Valentine. I paid around 70, but it was only one year old. If trade-in is low 20s, my net cost was about 50 and I got 75k miles for that or 65 cents a mile. With some larger repairs on the near horizon am I going to average 65 cents a mile from here on out and what's my time worth to either do the work myself or be inconvenienced with more service visits. It's close to the bottom of the depreciation curve, but. . .

I think the used 2012s with the turbo are a very good deal right now, in part because of the bodystyle changeover causing higher depreciation and many coming off lease with low miles and good remaining primary warranty into '16. Love the 500 lbs of torque too. If I can get one mid-50s and do another 75k miles and trade-in around 20, that's more like 50 cents a mile. I've had a ride in the new S550 and the interior is great. Love the seats and the upgraded display. Pretty much the same engine though and IMHO a blander body.

Mike5215

Agree. It's hard to let an older S go especially when it's generally been behaving itself. The car is so nice when it's in working order it's difficult to rationalize replacing it.

Atcpup

I see your logic but at what point do you stop making a car payment and actually own and keep a vehicle. My 08' has been paid off and has been out of warranty for some time now. Not only do I set aside money for repairs but I also set aside for a new vehicle. Both of those allotments are still cheaper (for me at least) than trading up every 3 years. In the long run, it makes better financial sense(again, I am speaking for myself).

Maybe leasing is a better option for those folks. And as far as a forum is concerned, I would be willing to bet that 50% of Mercedes owners (hell for that matter, all auto owners) don't know what a "forum" is.....

Mike5215

Is it fair to say that you're heavily vested in the idea that an S Class is not prone to requiring multiple unexpected repairs as it ages, and that those repairs are typically not very expensive?

Atcpup

It's fair to say that I'm heavily vested in saving money over the long term. I will keep this vehicle a very long time and will report when it requires repair and the cost. Of course you'll have to visit this forum time to time to check as I'm sure you will be in the W222 forum very soon..

Mike5215

Nah, no need to spend on a 222. There are tons of 2010, 12 and 13's coming in as CPO cars every day, depreciated a fat 50% or so. The moment my current CPO is over, in 2016 with roughly 100,000 miles on the car, I'll dump it and get another one. Meanwhile I drive a very nice car with zero worries about unexpected repairs.

But hey, you know the old saying, "It makes good financial sense to own a German luxury car out of warranty." You haven't heard of that saying? Neither has anyone else.

Atcpup

To each his own in comfort, I worry not about unexpected repairs either. But maybe I will when more than a few folks (well, one at the moment) warn of the dangers of owning a W221 out of warranty. We just have a different perspective on vehicle ownership. Your "old saying" makes about as much sense as the one about jumping off a 10 story building.....and damn, I got to keep reading "dump it now while you can" post from you until 2016?

Mike5215

Oh, heck no. I'll probably be out of the 2010 by this time next year.

Bobbybigbucks

I don't know where you get those prices from cause I live in Montreal and I was offered more then that from the Mercedes dealership alone I also had a private offer when I was thinking of selling for 34000$

Mike5215

Bobby what is your year and mileage? How much did you pay for the car and when did you buy it?

cstrong3240

I got the trade-in price first from KBB and another similar site for average trade-in on a 'good' vehicle. I got a sight unseen quote from the dealer with the '12 S550 of $21k. Then, my indi said he'd give me $22, but that's really the same since there would be no tax savings on the trade and Texas charges around 6% on cars. I do not really think about the financing or when a car is paid off. Whether you pay up front or over time, money is money.

If you go back to the idea of 50 cents a mile on the '12 to own it, drive it 75k miles and trade it in, the keeping it is close to a push in my mind, hence the questions for the board. I've been driving 15k miles a year and probably will do so in the future. That's $7,500 a year at 50 cents a mile, so maybe there's a good argument for keeping it. On the other hand, I sympathize with the argument that I have a $22k car and could spend a large percentage of that $22k over the next couple of years to keep most of its value. At 120k miles in two more years, maybe it's worth $15k?? Say I spend $3k a year out of warranty for a total of $6k and the value goes down $7k, so $13k for 30k more miles. Add in $2k for aggravation, diy hours and you're back at 50 cents a mile.

Quadcammer

You don't hear the old saying, "buying a newish german luxury car, eating $50k in depreciation, and repeating every three years is a good financial decision" either.

08 repairs+depreciation will be < than depreciation on the 2012.

As for your story about your transmission repair. You took a risk, and lost. Many people take a risk and win. Its all about risk tolerance and odds. I would say that the odds are that you'll have a steady stream of mid priced repairs, but nothing huge.