new member, wheel question!!! 4matic.
02-20-2015, 09:38 AM
#1
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
new member, wheel question!!! 4matic.
Hi Guys after a year of lurking, &finishing up construction on my new house I couldn't scratch the itch of swapping out 750, a local benz dealer had a diamond white,black amg w panaroof and cpo, went to see it and it was close to flawless!!! needless to say its in My driveway now.The car is a 10 4 matic with the non staggered 19" amg wheels. I want to either do a factory style 20" 21". I found some online 20x8.5 and 20x9.5 can I stagger the wheels on the car?? What are my options?
02-20-2015, 09:57 AM
#3
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Hmm, I have no choice?
cant do something w tire size or something? can I run the 8.5 and 9.5? any options? I run staggered on my awd x5?
cant do something w tire size or something? can I run the 8.5 and 9.5? any options? I run staggered on my awd x5?
02-20-2015, 11:25 AM
#6
02-20-2015, 12:13 PM
#7
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
seems you can stagger them? Now the real question is what rims to get?? The non staggered 19's are killing me. I really like the s63 rims or the optional 20" ones. Both beautiful.
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02-20-2015, 01:14 PM
#8
MBWorld Fanatic!
Personally, i've had a hard time telling if they have staggered due to the sport bumper in the rear. I think the w221 with sport package kinda hides the rear tires, and it's not as evident as other makes. I've seen a few staggered with factory wheels, and you don't see it as much as other cars.
02-20-2015, 09:39 PM
#11
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Ill drop her off for u
Pics would be great, I took 2 bad cell phone shots, the cars dirty since I picked it up after some snow, and its been 3 degrees!!! Hopefully thiscweekend
Pics would be great, I took 2 bad cell phone shots, the cars dirty since I picked it up after some snow, and its been 3 degrees!!! Hopefully thiscweekend
02-20-2015, 10:23 PM
#12
MBWorld Fanatic!
That is such bull**** guys. Who Photoshopped her *** to make it shrink like that? Not cool.
My kid brother the trusty 25+ year mechanic says as follows: Tire width variations on an AWD car are irrelevant. Big discrepency in the rolling diameter (rim plus tire) can be a problem. The general rule is to stay within 3%. Just remember when choosing tires that the second number is the sidewall height ratio , not a measurement of sidewall height itself. So a 245/30 tire has a sidewall that is 30% of 245mm. www.1010tire.com has a calculator that will compare two tire sizes and report the percent of variation in rolling diameter. Stagger away, my friend. I'd recommend 20's vs 21's. Much easier to find, better selection and cheaper.
My kid brother the trusty 25+ year mechanic says as follows: Tire width variations on an AWD car are irrelevant. Big discrepency in the rolling diameter (rim plus tire) can be a problem. The general rule is to stay within 3%. Just remember when choosing tires that the second number is the sidewall height ratio , not a measurement of sidewall height itself. So a 245/30 tire has a sidewall that is 30% of 245mm. www.1010tire.com has a calculator that will compare two tire sizes and report the percent of variation in rolling diameter. Stagger away, my friend. I'd recommend 20's vs 21's. Much easier to find, better selection and cheaper.
Last edited by Mike5215; 02-20-2015 at 10:28 PM.
02-21-2015, 08:30 AM
#13
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Yup I'm more than familiar the cost of the 21" tires. I've had 21 s for almost 8 years bad you wouldn't believe what they cost when they came out back then. Good news is I have a fresh set of 21" tires in my garage. Now if I could find some 21" rims that would be great. The 20s are beautiful but I think the 21 s would look really sweet on the car.
02-21-2015, 10:27 AM
#14
Senior Member
Tire width variations on an AWD car are irrelevant. Big discrepency in the rolling diameter (rim plus tire) can be a problem. The general rule is to stay within 3%. Just remember when choosing tires that the second number is the sidewall height ratio , not a measurement of sidewall height itself. So a 245/30 tire has a sidewall that is 30% of 245mm. www.1010tire.com has a calculator that will compare two tire sizes and report the percent of variation in rolling diameter. Stagger away, my friend. I'd recommend 20's vs 21's. Much easier to find, better selection and cheaper.
I had a discussion with Mike in another thread with my concerns regarding fake staggering. With the same size tires on different size wheels, there will still be *some* effect on the actual rolling diameter between the front and rear.
Another matter: If we were to assume that M-B has developed and programmed the 4Matic logic perfectly, it would consider many factors--weight distribution, center of gravity, relational g-forces, and the SAME traction properties of each tire--to determine conditions where traction control/stability control/torque transfer would intervene. By changing the traction properties between the front and rear wheels, what the programming assumes is no longer the actual. I do not know how that may or may not affect real-world low-traction or loss-of-control operation/response.
It's all theory. Maybe I'm overthinking it. At the same time, just because someone has done it and has not observed an undesirable effect, it does not mean that it didn't happen....
02-21-2015, 10:34 AM
#15
Super Member
i have had 2 W221 over the last 2yrs. Previous was not 4matic but the current one is 4matic. Ran the same set of staggered rims on both cars. To date no issues whatsoever.
I think you are fine with staggered as long as you are still within overall factory specs.
I think you are fine with staggered as long as you are still within overall factory specs.
02-21-2015, 05:52 PM
#17
Mb's asc is pretty thick skinned- in other words it will tolerate wide variances in tire diameter front/ back.
Your problem is the transfer case. Any variance needs to be "picked up"/ equalized by it. Too much of a difference and the transfer case will overheat and fail.
Your problem is the transfer case. Any variance needs to be "picked up"/ equalized by it. Too much of a difference and the transfer case will overheat and fail.
02-21-2015, 10:35 PM
#18
MBWorld Fanatic!
I currently run a set of 20" S63 take offs that I like. Previously I've run replica wheels off EBay with no problems. Do a search on EBay for "20" amg style wheels s550 CL550" and you'll see a bunch of staggered sets for under a grand. I just saw a very convincing set of my S63 wheels as reps on there for $800. I think the OEM staggered 20" tire set up on non 4Matic cars has variances under 3% so I'd go with those tire sizes.
The car wants a 43mm offset all around. Remember to order bolts. Rep wheels usually have a different style lug seat then OEM although they can look similar. Made that mistake once and had to have the car towed back because it was shaking so bad.
The rep wheels will come in either a 45mm or 35mm offset. 45 will put the stance like stock. 35's will bring the wheels out of the fender wells more and look more aggressive. I currently run very aggressive offsets using spacers, 20mm rear and 15mm front which puts the wheel flush with the fender lip so 35 should be no problem.
The car wants a 43mm offset all around. Remember to order bolts. Rep wheels usually have a different style lug seat then OEM although they can look similar. Made that mistake once and had to have the car towed back because it was shaking so bad.
The rep wheels will come in either a 45mm or 35mm offset. 45 will put the stance like stock. 35's will bring the wheels out of the fender wells more and look more aggressive. I currently run very aggressive offsets using spacers, 20mm rear and 15mm front which puts the wheel flush with the fender lip so 35 should be no problem.
02-22-2015, 07:46 AM
#19
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Cool thanks mike, yea I've seen the reps like yours and they are very convincing for the $$. I think the 20s are really classy and maybe the route I go...... However!! For the summer set I wouldnt mind running something a bit larger, a 21" I feel would be ideal. I'd like to see some 22s up close as I guess it's on the table but I don't want the car to look ghetto. Not to many 21s out there, any suggestions?
02-22-2015, 10:25 AM
#21
Senior Member
On factory vs. replica wheels: I am only expressing experiences from the BMW side, so take it for what it's worth...
It was always a concern with replica wheels because while they may *look* good, their quality may substantially differ from factory. While factory wheels are usually forged, some replica wheels are cast. Cast wheels, even those advertised as "pressure casting", tend to be less strong and less rigid. This means they can bend more easily. Replicas tend to be heavier, which adds to the unsprung weight. Replicas tend to require more weight to balance, which can lead to vibration problems.
There is no doubt that there are plenty of very high quality aftermarket and replica wheels--some even exceed factory in terms of material and manufacturing. I am simply sharing my experiences with potential pitfalls of some replicas...
Mike, et al., I can use some feedback on your knowledge of the replicas you've used--are they truly "OEM quality"? (Since, per your recommendation, a 20" setup is indicated for my yet-to-arrive S, and I am inclined to agree.) Thanks.
It was always a concern with replica wheels because while they may *look* good, their quality may substantially differ from factory. While factory wheels are usually forged, some replica wheels are cast. Cast wheels, even those advertised as "pressure casting", tend to be less strong and less rigid. This means they can bend more easily. Replicas tend to be heavier, which adds to the unsprung weight. Replicas tend to require more weight to balance, which can lead to vibration problems.
There is no doubt that there are plenty of very high quality aftermarket and replica wheels--some even exceed factory in terms of material and manufacturing. I am simply sharing my experiences with potential pitfalls of some replicas...
Mike, et al., I can use some feedback on your knowledge of the replicas you've used--are they truly "OEM quality"? (Since, per your recommendation, a 20" setup is indicated for my yet-to-arrive S, and I am inclined to agree.) Thanks.
02-22-2015, 11:15 AM
#23
MBWorld Fanatic!
In terms of balancing and ride the reps were good. The tech at MB who was mounting tires for me took a pic of one on a road force balance machine taking zero weight, so that's a good sign. I live in Florida so not a lot of potholes to test the strength as far as bending, but I did somehow just manage to put a bend in a front on my OEMs so I guess any wheel is susceptible under the right conditions. Not sure on weight, both the OEM and reps seem heavy to me.
A set of clean OEM take offs is ideal but rare and pricey. A refurbed set is reasonable but you don't know what you're getting since its been repaired and refinished. Reps are cheap and look good but probably are not made to the tolerances of OEM. There's no right answer, its a question of how much you want to spend and the trade offs. Take offs would be my first choice, then reps and then refurbs last unless I could see them "before".
A set of clean OEM take offs is ideal but rare and pricey. A refurbed set is reasonable but you don't know what you're getting since its been repaired and refinished. Reps are cheap and look good but probably are not made to the tolerances of OEM. There's no right answer, its a question of how much you want to spend and the trade offs. Take offs would be my first choice, then reps and then refurbs last unless I could see them "before".
