Test Drove A Tesla P85D Today
04-18-2015, 05:17 PM
#1
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Test Drove A Tesla P85D Today
I'm not in the market (thanks to the horrendous depreciation on my 2010 S) but I needed something to kill an afternoon...
The Tesla “store” in Orlando is plain funny looking. It's a low little nothing building, kind of off the beaten path, and there are two (sometimes three I'm told) demo cars there and that's it. No inventory, because they don't take trades, and the new cars are always built to order. The place looks like an abandoned dentist's office building from the exterior.
When we went inside there wasn't another human being in sight. It was creepy in a zombie movie kind of way. They had another MS inside and a rolling chassis on display and we checked those out for a couple of minutes. Eventually the lone Tesla dude came out of the crapper and the demo began. He was a mid twenties hipster guy like you'd find working the Apple bar at Best Buy. Nice guy though, and very knowledgeable.
I had spec'd up several versions of an MS on the website, and I wanted to see which options were must haves and which I could take a pass on, maybe trading that money instead for more performance.
First up was the 70D in the showroom, the entry level model in terms of battery capacity and power. (All three models in the range are virtually identical in terms of trim and how they can be optioned. The top end P85D gets red calipered Brembo brakes and that's it aside from a bigger battery and more power.)
The showroom 70D had the new “next generation” seats which actually look and feel like proper luxury sports car seats versus the base seats which look like they belong in a boat. Not much in the way of adjustments, no cooling or massage, but nice look and feel and good lateral support and a lumbar adjustment. It also had the rear seat package, which gives you a 2+2 config with two actual seats and a nice wide console instead of the standard park bench. The rear seats in that package have heaters that occupants can control via a smartphone app, and they can control the pano roof in the same way.
Check out the website www.teslamotors.com and hit "order" to test various configurations. They don't ask for your PayPal information til the very end
.
The showroom car had the premium interior upgrade, which puts nice looking (and smelling) double stitched leather where a lot of plastic is normally, and a swath of suede on the top of the dash. Overall I liked the interior. Not in comparison to the 221 necessarily, but as a stand-alone execution it was well done and distinctive. No complaints there, surprisingly.
While we were checking out the showroom car, the guy used an Iphone app to pre-cool the 70D demo car out front that we were going to be taking out later. Nice. The tech in the cars is gorgeous and really well executed. Both LCD screens were extremely high res and whatever was on them looked well designed and easy to understand. The showroom car had the upgraded audio and it sounded amazing and was nicely integrated with cover art and artist info. The car has its own cellular WiFi and a web browser.
First we took out the 70D demo car. It didn't have the optional air suspension and was on the stock 19” wheels. It's obviously very quiet and kind of eerie sneaking out of a parking lot. On the road it stays pretty quiet although with the stereo down there's a faint whine from the motors. Ride is okay without air. Like a conventional car. It felt like the new BMW 5 series feels to me. Acceleration even on the “slow” car is very good from a mathematical standpoint. It puts the car at 60 in a few seconds and exerts a certain number of G's on your body. Handling is good, the car feels (and is) tight.
When I was a kid we had these electric slot car sets called “AFX”. They were a blast but they had two speeds, Go Like Hell and Stop. There wasn't much nuance in the middle. On the Tesla, because the regenerative braking is active the moment you let up the accelerator, it had that same feel, winding the car down to a stop in very short order. There is no "coasting". It did cruise very quietly and rode smoothly and was sort of like the 221 in that sense. The Auto Pilot works well. Currently it just mixes adaptive cruise with automatic braking down to a full stop, but updates are forthcoming that will take over steering. Lane changes require just clicking the turn signal stalk, and ultimately the car will be able to drive itself to you on private property using nothing but its sensors.
Next up was a demo in the new 671HP P85D, with air suspension and on great looking 21” wheels. It rode well but firmly. Like a 221 on 20's in Sport mode. It's also very quick. If you mash the accelerator from a dead stop it will launch with all of its torque instantly and convey you to 60 mph in 3 seconds or so. But it does it in such a boring way. The car pulls like crazy while the motors whine like they're pissed off and then suddenly there's “60” on the speedometer. The suspension isn't really specialized for the extra torque in the performance version, so the nose comes up in a very unbecoming Trans Am sort of way. (The sales guy did say the air suspension on the P85D is stiffer.) It needs ABC, or some electronic/magnetic equivalent, or a "launch mode" that puts the nose down and keeps it there.
Overall the P85D is like driving a really cool appliance. No grunt while an engine takes in air, no escalating exhaust note, no gear changes. Just zero then sixty. There's the whine, plus wind noise plus tire noise. It's a great toy car built on a massive scale.
I did not have the “gotta get one” moment I was expecting. It's a very disconnected, dispassionate exercise in personal transportation to me. Would it be fun to spank high performance ICE cars at red lights? Probably for a week or so. Good looking car? Definitely. Maybe the rear third is a little wonky with that hybrid sedan/hatchbacky design, but from every other angle it's a winner. Build quality and tolerances seemed up to par. Nothing screamed "brand new car builder's first effort" to me.
Worth the money? Well, the mid-level 85D car is $10,000 less than the P85D to start and has all the performance a normal person could want, with zero to sixty in 4.4 seconds (a new software upgrade just shaved a tenth off the original numbers.) So for me, no.
If I were to drive a Tesla I'd lease a 70D at $20,000 less and option it to the hilt. It needs the upgraded interior, the new seats, the upgraded audio, the auto pilot self driving system, the executive rear seat package, the optional center console(?), and the air suspension to be a fully formed car and that eats up a chunk of the $20k spread. The air suspension on the base 19's (which saves you $4500 over the 21's) would be my choice for ride quality, although they don't look nearly as cool.
In terms of options over performance I have nothing left to prove at red lights. Plus I have an 18 year old son on my insurance and do not need to add any vehicle that has an "Insane" mode. The mid level 85D would be a fair compromise if you wanted some extra electronic grunt at your disposal.
Since it took me two and a half hours to the Tesla store from my home in Gainesville, I asked how service works. Not so great it turns out. Originally, Tesla bent over backwards to take car of warranty issues at minimum disruption to the customer. Then they recently realized it was killing their bottom line. In fact, if there's an Achilles's Heal in the Tesla business plan its dealing with warranty costs when you want to totally kiss the customer's butt. This year they grossed like a gabillion dollars and netted a few hundred million.
So, if it needs service but is driveable they expect you to bring the car to them. Granted, there is no "maintenance" per se. Brakes and tires can be handled anywhere and those plus wiper blades are the only two wear items. If it has to be flat-bedded there's a prorated fee depending on distance. If they send a mobile “Ranger” unit it's $100. Labor for non warranty is $150/hr. If I lived within a half hour of a Tesla service center that would be fine. Until then, it's a deal killer for me.
So when you take into consideration the service issue, then factor in having your home's electric panel rewired to pull a new 50 amp/240 volt circuit for charging, and the issues involved with trip planning to avoid running out of juice it doesn't add up for me yet. While the Model S is in a league of its own in terms of innovation and tech, and leap frogged ICE cars in terms of how quickly it developed super-car acceleration, I can't say I'd be really hot to get one when the 221 is retired.
Surprisingly it's not because the interior was lacking. It's just not an engaging machine to me, and it didn't feel like the P85D car earned all of those extra ponies by overcoming the mechanical challenges an ICE car performing at the same level has. It just got more batteries and a software patch. When you think about the money, a nicely equipped 222 makes way more sense. Anyway, slipping back into the 221's cocoon and burning some dinosaur bones for the drive home felt pretty darn good either way.
The Tesla “store” in Orlando is plain funny looking. It's a low little nothing building, kind of off the beaten path, and there are two (sometimes three I'm told) demo cars there and that's it. No inventory, because they don't take trades, and the new cars are always built to order. The place looks like an abandoned dentist's office building from the exterior.
When we went inside there wasn't another human being in sight. It was creepy in a zombie movie kind of way. They had another MS inside and a rolling chassis on display and we checked those out for a couple of minutes. Eventually the lone Tesla dude came out of the crapper and the demo began. He was a mid twenties hipster guy like you'd find working the Apple bar at Best Buy. Nice guy though, and very knowledgeable.
I had spec'd up several versions of an MS on the website, and I wanted to see which options were must haves and which I could take a pass on, maybe trading that money instead for more performance.
First up was the 70D in the showroom, the entry level model in terms of battery capacity and power. (All three models in the range are virtually identical in terms of trim and how they can be optioned. The top end P85D gets red calipered Brembo brakes and that's it aside from a bigger battery and more power.)
The showroom 70D had the new “next generation” seats which actually look and feel like proper luxury sports car seats versus the base seats which look like they belong in a boat. Not much in the way of adjustments, no cooling or massage, but nice look and feel and good lateral support and a lumbar adjustment. It also had the rear seat package, which gives you a 2+2 config with two actual seats and a nice wide console instead of the standard park bench. The rear seats in that package have heaters that occupants can control via a smartphone app, and they can control the pano roof in the same way.
Check out the website www.teslamotors.com and hit "order" to test various configurations. They don't ask for your PayPal information til the very end
.The showroom car had the premium interior upgrade, which puts nice looking (and smelling) double stitched leather where a lot of plastic is normally, and a swath of suede on the top of the dash. Overall I liked the interior. Not in comparison to the 221 necessarily, but as a stand-alone execution it was well done and distinctive. No complaints there, surprisingly.
While we were checking out the showroom car, the guy used an Iphone app to pre-cool the 70D demo car out front that we were going to be taking out later. Nice. The tech in the cars is gorgeous and really well executed. Both LCD screens were extremely high res and whatever was on them looked well designed and easy to understand. The showroom car had the upgraded audio and it sounded amazing and was nicely integrated with cover art and artist info. The car has its own cellular WiFi and a web browser.
First we took out the 70D demo car. It didn't have the optional air suspension and was on the stock 19” wheels. It's obviously very quiet and kind of eerie sneaking out of a parking lot. On the road it stays pretty quiet although with the stereo down there's a faint whine from the motors. Ride is okay without air. Like a conventional car. It felt like the new BMW 5 series feels to me. Acceleration even on the “slow” car is very good from a mathematical standpoint. It puts the car at 60 in a few seconds and exerts a certain number of G's on your body. Handling is good, the car feels (and is) tight.
When I was a kid we had these electric slot car sets called “AFX”. They were a blast but they had two speeds, Go Like Hell and Stop. There wasn't much nuance in the middle. On the Tesla, because the regenerative braking is active the moment you let up the accelerator, it had that same feel, winding the car down to a stop in very short order. There is no "coasting". It did cruise very quietly and rode smoothly and was sort of like the 221 in that sense. The Auto Pilot works well. Currently it just mixes adaptive cruise with automatic braking down to a full stop, but updates are forthcoming that will take over steering. Lane changes require just clicking the turn signal stalk, and ultimately the car will be able to drive itself to you on private property using nothing but its sensors.
Next up was a demo in the new 671HP P85D, with air suspension and on great looking 21” wheels. It rode well but firmly. Like a 221 on 20's in Sport mode. It's also very quick. If you mash the accelerator from a dead stop it will launch with all of its torque instantly and convey you to 60 mph in 3 seconds or so. But it does it in such a boring way. The car pulls like crazy while the motors whine like they're pissed off and then suddenly there's “60” on the speedometer. The suspension isn't really specialized for the extra torque in the performance version, so the nose comes up in a very unbecoming Trans Am sort of way. (The sales guy did say the air suspension on the P85D is stiffer.) It needs ABC, or some electronic/magnetic equivalent, or a "launch mode" that puts the nose down and keeps it there.
Overall the P85D is like driving a really cool appliance. No grunt while an engine takes in air, no escalating exhaust note, no gear changes. Just zero then sixty. There's the whine, plus wind noise plus tire noise. It's a great toy car built on a massive scale.
I did not have the “gotta get one” moment I was expecting. It's a very disconnected, dispassionate exercise in personal transportation to me. Would it be fun to spank high performance ICE cars at red lights? Probably for a week or so. Good looking car? Definitely. Maybe the rear third is a little wonky with that hybrid sedan/hatchbacky design, but from every other angle it's a winner. Build quality and tolerances seemed up to par. Nothing screamed "brand new car builder's first effort" to me.
Worth the money? Well, the mid-level 85D car is $10,000 less than the P85D to start and has all the performance a normal person could want, with zero to sixty in 4.4 seconds (a new software upgrade just shaved a tenth off the original numbers.) So for me, no.
If I were to drive a Tesla I'd lease a 70D at $20,000 less and option it to the hilt. It needs the upgraded interior, the new seats, the upgraded audio, the auto pilot self driving system, the executive rear seat package, the optional center console(?), and the air suspension to be a fully formed car and that eats up a chunk of the $20k spread. The air suspension on the base 19's (which saves you $4500 over the 21's) would be my choice for ride quality, although they don't look nearly as cool.
In terms of options over performance I have nothing left to prove at red lights. Plus I have an 18 year old son on my insurance and do not need to add any vehicle that has an "Insane" mode. The mid level 85D would be a fair compromise if you wanted some extra electronic grunt at your disposal.
Since it took me two and a half hours to the Tesla store from my home in Gainesville, I asked how service works. Not so great it turns out. Originally, Tesla bent over backwards to take car of warranty issues at minimum disruption to the customer. Then they recently realized it was killing their bottom line. In fact, if there's an Achilles's Heal in the Tesla business plan its dealing with warranty costs when you want to totally kiss the customer's butt. This year they grossed like a gabillion dollars and netted a few hundred million.
So, if it needs service but is driveable they expect you to bring the car to them. Granted, there is no "maintenance" per se. Brakes and tires can be handled anywhere and those plus wiper blades are the only two wear items. If it has to be flat-bedded there's a prorated fee depending on distance. If they send a mobile “Ranger” unit it's $100. Labor for non warranty is $150/hr. If I lived within a half hour of a Tesla service center that would be fine. Until then, it's a deal killer for me.
So when you take into consideration the service issue, then factor in having your home's electric panel rewired to pull a new 50 amp/240 volt circuit for charging, and the issues involved with trip planning to avoid running out of juice it doesn't add up for me yet. While the Model S is in a league of its own in terms of innovation and tech, and leap frogged ICE cars in terms of how quickly it developed super-car acceleration, I can't say I'd be really hot to get one when the 221 is retired.
Surprisingly it's not because the interior was lacking. It's just not an engaging machine to me, and it didn't feel like the P85D car earned all of those extra ponies by overcoming the mechanical challenges an ICE car performing at the same level has. It just got more batteries and a software patch. When you think about the money, a nicely equipped 222 makes way more sense. Anyway, slipping back into the 221's cocoon and burning some dinosaur bones for the drive home felt pretty darn good either way.
Last edited by Mike5215; 04-18-2015 at 05:31 PM.
04-18-2015, 06:10 PM
#3
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
It's only an issue when the dealer is two and a half hours away. Most warranty stuff doesn't disable the car or require a flatbed. That's why I said if I was a half hour away it wouldn't be an issue.
04-18-2015, 06:21 PM
#4
I drove one in South Beach. I thought the car was absolutely amazing. The interior is not as opulent as my S-class, but I thought the car was fast, comfortable and I love the idea of not having to fill up with gas and being able to charge it at home at my convenience. The faster model that I drove seems faster than my Porsche.
04-18-2015, 06:52 PM
#5
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
I drove one in South Beach. I thought the car was absolutely amazing. The interior is not as opulent as my S-class, but I thought the car was fast, comfortable and I love the idea of not having to fill up with gas and being able to charge it at home at my convenience. The faster model that I drove seems faster than my Porsche.
They still haven't conquered the destination challenge. You drive your car a couple hundred miles to a resort or to visit friends or whatever. You're two hundred miles away from your home charger. No overnight charging. If you want to do much driving once you're there you need to find a public charger somewhere, or plan your route home around the location of the nearest Supercharger.
On the service issue, if they opened a store or service center in Jacksonville (and they probably will) which is only an hour away I'd be fine.
04-20-2015, 09:39 AM
#6
I felt the same when I drove my neighbors P85 MS tesla. It's real fast but doesn't have the looks and not impressed with the interior. On pure looks and interior I liked his fisker karma better.The fisker is beautiful
04-20-2015, 10:39 AM
#7
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Yeah, the Tesla is never going to be an apples-to-apples swap for an S Class in terms of the interior. Then again, what beside a Bentley really is? I will say the new "next generation" seats are much less "artsy" looking and more like conventional sports sedan seats.
The upgraded interior option helps quite a bit as far as materials and cabin feel goes, and now you can order a proper center console where that little tub now sits under the center stack. Those were my main objections...goofy looking seats and no center console. The rest I can forgive.
With the Tesla you're buying the innovation. It's definitely a different take on driving, but I haven't written it off entirely. What I really learned from the test drives was that I could totally live without the 671HP version. The base AWD 70D had plenty of torque and power for every day driving and shaves $30k off the price.
The Karma as a design exercise is stunning, but the car in real life is a slow tub with quirky electronics. An owner posted a really good review of his Karma on YouTube.
The upgraded interior option helps quite a bit as far as materials and cabin feel goes, and now you can order a proper center console where that little tub now sits under the center stack. Those were my main objections...goofy looking seats and no center console. The rest I can forgive.
With the Tesla you're buying the innovation. It's definitely a different take on driving, but I haven't written it off entirely. What I really learned from the test drives was that I could totally live without the 671HP version. The base AWD 70D had plenty of torque and power for every day driving and shaves $30k off the price.
The Karma as a design exercise is stunning, but the car in real life is a slow tub with quirky electronics. An owner posted a really good review of his Karma on YouTube.
Last edited by Mike5215; 04-20-2015 at 10:42 AM.
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04-20-2015, 12:23 PM
#9
Yeah, the Tesla is never going to be an apples-to-apples swap for an S Class in terms of the interior. Then again, what beside a Bentley really is? I will say the new "next generation" seats are much less "artsy" looking and more like conventional sports sedan seats.
The upgraded interior option helps quite a bit as far as materials and cabin feel goes, and now you can order a proper center console where that little tub now sits under the center stack. Those were my main objections...goofy looking seats and no center console. The rest I can forgive.
With the Tesla you're buying the innovation. It's definitely a different take on driving, but I haven't written it off entirely. What I really learned from the test drives was that I could totally live without the 671HP version. The base AWD 70D had plenty of torque and power for every day driving and shaves $30k off the price.
The Karma as a design exercise is stunning, but the car in real life is a slow tub with quirky electronics. An owner posted a really good review of his Karma on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnYuO0bGSTc
The upgraded interior option helps quite a bit as far as materials and cabin feel goes, and now you can order a proper center console where that little tub now sits under the center stack. Those were my main objections...goofy looking seats and no center console. The rest I can forgive.
With the Tesla you're buying the innovation. It's definitely a different take on driving, but I haven't written it off entirely. What I really learned from the test drives was that I could totally live without the 671HP version. The base AWD 70D had plenty of torque and power for every day driving and shaves $30k off the price.
The Karma as a design exercise is stunning, but the car in real life is a slow tub with quirky electronics. An owner posted a really good review of his Karma on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnYuO0bGSTc
04-20-2015, 12:43 PM
#10
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
The Fisker reminds me of a non functional show car that they tried to make functional. It's like designers built it rather than engineers. But, I've never driven one and I'd sure as hell take the opportunity to do so. It's a great looking car.
04-20-2015, 01:04 PM
#11
MBWorld Fanatic!
Glad you got around to test driving a Model S. It's not for everyone.
As I'm sure you know from the W222 thread, we test drove a Model S a while back and immediately lost interest in any car made by Mercedes, the AMG lineup included.
We are approaching 3 months with our Model S P85D and it is the single most satisfying car purchase we've ever made. Someone could give me a million dollars to buy any car out there and I'd still buy the same Model S P85D.
More discussions on this W222 thread along with comments from another forum member who decided to get a Model S.
https://mbworld.org/forums/new-s-cla...e-s550-11.html
As I'm sure you know from the W222 thread, we test drove a Model S a while back and immediately lost interest in any car made by Mercedes, the AMG lineup included.
We are approaching 3 months with our Model S P85D and it is the single most satisfying car purchase we've ever made. Someone could give me a million dollars to buy any car out there and I'd still buy the same Model S P85D.
More discussions on this W222 thread along with comments from another forum member who decided to get a Model S.
https://mbworld.org/forums/new-s-cla...e-s550-11.html
04-20-2015, 08:37 PM
#12
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Yeah I remember that thread! Objectively speaking, MB fanboy stuff aside, the Tesla is a very different, very cool way to drop six figures on a car. I've done the German luxury car thing now for ten years. The 222's don't interest me, but the Tesla is intriguing. Top of the list for my next car. If I could get out of the 221 without taking a bath I would be ordering a loaded up 70D right now, even with the service distance issue. There's just nothing else on the road like that car.
04-21-2015, 09:19 PM
#14
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
I'm not in the market (thanks to the horrendous depreciation on my 2010 S) but I needed something to kill an afternoon...
The Tesla “store” in Orlando is plain funny looking. It's a low little nothing building, kind of off the beaten path, and there are two (sometimes three I'm told) demo cars there and that's it. No inventory, because they don't take trades, and the new cars are always built to order. The place looks like an abandoned dentist's office building from the exterior.
When we went inside there wasn't another human being in sight. It was creepy in a zombie movie kind of way. They had another MS inside and a rolling chassis on display and we checked those out for a couple of minutes. Eventually the lone Tesla dude came out of the crapper and the demo began. He was a mid twenties hipster guy like you'd find working the Apple bar at Best Buy. Nice guy though, and very knowledgeable.
I had spec'd up several versions of an MS on the website, and I wanted to see which options were must haves and which I could take a pass on, maybe trading that money instead for more performance.
First up was the 70D in the showroom, the entry level model in terms of battery capacity and power. (All three models in the range are virtually identical in terms of trim and how they can be optioned. The top end P85D gets red calipered Brembo brakes and that's it aside from a bigger battery and more power.)
The showroom 70D had the new “next generation” seats which actually look and feel like proper luxury sports car seats versus the base seats which look like they belong in a boat. Not much in the way of adjustments, no cooling or massage, but nice look and feel and good lateral support and a lumbar adjustment. It also had the rear seat package, which gives you a 2+2 config with two actual seats and a nice wide console instead of the standard park bench. The rear seats in that package have heaters that occupants can control via a smartphone app, and they can control the pano roof in the same way.
Check out the website www.teslamotors.com and hit "order" to test various configurations. They don't ask for your PayPal information til the very end.
The showroom car had the premium interior upgrade, which puts nice looking (and smelling) double stitched leather where a lot of plastic is normally, and a swath of suede on the top of the dash. Overall I liked the interior. Not in comparison to the 221 necessarily, but as a stand-alone execution it was well done and distinctive. No complaints there, surprisingly.
While we were checking out the showroom car, the guy used an Iphone app to pre-cool the 70D demo car out front that we were going to be taking out later. Nice. The tech in the cars is gorgeous and really well executed. Both LCD screens were extremely high res and whatever was on them looked well designed and easy to understand. The showroom car had the upgraded audio and it sounded amazing and was nicely integrated with cover art and artist info. The car has its own cellular WiFi and a web browser.
First we took out the 70D demo car. It didn't have the optional air suspension and was on the stock 19” wheels. It's obviously very quiet and kind of eerie sneaking out of a parking lot. On the road it stays pretty quiet although with the stereo down there's a faint whine from the motors. Ride is okay without air. Like a conventional car. It felt like the new BMW 5 series feels to me. Acceleration even on the “slow” car is very good from a mathematical standpoint. It puts the car at 60 in a few seconds and exerts a certain number of G's on your body. Handling is good, the car feels (and is) tight.
When I was a kid we had these electric slot car sets called “AFX”. They were a blast but they had two speeds, Go Like Hell and Stop. There wasn't much nuance in the middle. On the Tesla, because the regenerative braking is active the moment you let up the accelerator, it had that same feel, winding the car down to a stop in very short order. There is no "coasting". It did cruise very quietly and rode smoothly and was sort of like the 221 in that sense. The Auto Pilot works well. Currently it just mixes adaptive cruise with automatic braking down to a full stop, but updates are forthcoming that will take over steering. Lane changes require just clicking the turn signal stalk, and ultimately the car will be able to drive itself to you on private property using nothing but its sensors.
Next up was a demo in the new 671HP P85D, with air suspension and on great looking 21” wheels. It rode well but firmly. Like a 221 on 20's in Sport mode. It's also very quick. If you mash the accelerator from a dead stop it will launch with all of its torque instantly and convey you to 60 mph in 3 seconds or so. But it does it in such a boring way. The car pulls like crazy while the motors whine like they're pissed off and then suddenly there's “60” on the speedometer. The suspension isn't really specialized for the extra torque in the performance version, so the nose comes up in a very unbecoming Trans Am sort of way. (The sales guy did say the air suspension on the P85D is stiffer.) It needs ABC, or some electronic/magnetic equivalent, or a "launch mode" that puts the nose down and keeps it there.
Overall the P85D is like driving a really cool appliance. No grunt while an engine takes in air, no escalating exhaust note, no gear changes. Just zero then sixty. There's the whine, plus wind noise plus tire noise. It's a great toy car built on a massive scale.
I did not have the “gotta get one” moment I was expecting. It's a very disconnected, dispassionate exercise in personal transportation to me. Would it be fun to spank high performance ICE cars at red lights? Probably for a week or so. Good looking car? Definitely. Maybe the rear third is a little wonky with that hybrid sedan/hatchbacky design, but from every other angle it's a winner. Build quality and tolerances seemed up to par. Nothing screamed "brand new car builder's first effort" to me.
Worth the money? Well, the mid-level 85D car is $10,000 less than the P85D to start and has all the performance a normal person could want, with zero to sixty in 4.4 seconds (a new software upgrade just shaved a tenth off the original numbers.) So for me, no.
If I were to drive a Tesla I'd lease a 70D at $20,000 less and option it to the hilt. It needs the upgraded interior, the new seats, the upgraded audio, the auto pilot self driving system, the executive rear seat package, the optional center console(?), and the air suspension to be a fully formed car and that eats up a chunk of the $20k spread. The air suspension on the base 19's (which saves you $4500 over the 21's) would be my choice for ride quality, although they don't look nearly as cool.
In terms of options over performance I have nothing left to prove at red lights. Plus I have an 18 year old son on my insurance and do not need to add any vehicle that has an "Insane" mode. The mid level 85D would be a fair compromise if you wanted some extra electronic grunt at your disposal.
Since it took me two and a half hours to the Tesla store from my home in Gainesville, I asked how service works. Not so great it turns out. Originally, Tesla bent over backwards to take car of warranty issues at minimum disruption to the customer. Then they recently realized it was killing their bottom line. In fact, if there's an Achilles's Heal in the Tesla business plan its dealing with warranty costs when you want to totally kiss the customer's butt. This year they grossed like a gabillion dollars and netted a few hundred million.
So, if it needs service but is driveable they expect you to bring the car to them. Granted, there is no "maintenance" per se. Brakes and tires can be handled anywhere and those plus wiper blades are the only two wear items. If it has to be flat-bedded there's a prorated fee depending on distance. If they send a mobile “Ranger” unit it's $100. Labor for non warranty is $150/hr. If I lived within a half hour of a Tesla service center that would be fine. Until then, it's a deal killer for me.
So when you take into consideration the service issue, then factor in having your home's electric panel rewired to pull a new 50 amp/240 volt circuit for charging, and the issues involved with trip planning to avoid running out of juice it doesn't add up for me yet. While the Model S is in a league of its own in terms of innovation and tech, and leap frogged ICE cars in terms of how quickly it developed super-car acceleration, I can't say I'd be really hot to get one when the 221 is retired.
Surprisingly it's not because the interior was lacking. It's just not an engaging machine to me, and it didn't feel like the P85D car earned all of those extra ponies by overcoming the mechanical challenges an ICE car performing at the same level has. It just got more batteries and a software patch. When you think about the money, a nicely equipped 222 makes way more sense. Anyway, slipping back into the 221's cocoon and burning some dinosaur bones for the drive home felt pretty darn good either way.
The Tesla “store” in Orlando is plain funny looking. It's a low little nothing building, kind of off the beaten path, and there are two (sometimes three I'm told) demo cars there and that's it. No inventory, because they don't take trades, and the new cars are always built to order. The place looks like an abandoned dentist's office building from the exterior.
When we went inside there wasn't another human being in sight. It was creepy in a zombie movie kind of way. They had another MS inside and a rolling chassis on display and we checked those out for a couple of minutes. Eventually the lone Tesla dude came out of the crapper and the demo began. He was a mid twenties hipster guy like you'd find working the Apple bar at Best Buy. Nice guy though, and very knowledgeable.
I had spec'd up several versions of an MS on the website, and I wanted to see which options were must haves and which I could take a pass on, maybe trading that money instead for more performance.
First up was the 70D in the showroom, the entry level model in terms of battery capacity and power. (All three models in the range are virtually identical in terms of trim and how they can be optioned. The top end P85D gets red calipered Brembo brakes and that's it aside from a bigger battery and more power.)
The showroom 70D had the new “next generation” seats which actually look and feel like proper luxury sports car seats versus the base seats which look like they belong in a boat. Not much in the way of adjustments, no cooling or massage, but nice look and feel and good lateral support and a lumbar adjustment. It also had the rear seat package, which gives you a 2+2 config with two actual seats and a nice wide console instead of the standard park bench. The rear seats in that package have heaters that occupants can control via a smartphone app, and they can control the pano roof in the same way.
Check out the website www.teslamotors.com and hit "order" to test various configurations. They don't ask for your PayPal information til the very end
.The showroom car had the premium interior upgrade, which puts nice looking (and smelling) double stitched leather where a lot of plastic is normally, and a swath of suede on the top of the dash. Overall I liked the interior. Not in comparison to the 221 necessarily, but as a stand-alone execution it was well done and distinctive. No complaints there, surprisingly.
While we were checking out the showroom car, the guy used an Iphone app to pre-cool the 70D demo car out front that we were going to be taking out later. Nice. The tech in the cars is gorgeous and really well executed. Both LCD screens were extremely high res and whatever was on them looked well designed and easy to understand. The showroom car had the upgraded audio and it sounded amazing and was nicely integrated with cover art and artist info. The car has its own cellular WiFi and a web browser.
First we took out the 70D demo car. It didn't have the optional air suspension and was on the stock 19” wheels. It's obviously very quiet and kind of eerie sneaking out of a parking lot. On the road it stays pretty quiet although with the stereo down there's a faint whine from the motors. Ride is okay without air. Like a conventional car. It felt like the new BMW 5 series feels to me. Acceleration even on the “slow” car is very good from a mathematical standpoint. It puts the car at 60 in a few seconds and exerts a certain number of G's on your body. Handling is good, the car feels (and is) tight.
When I was a kid we had these electric slot car sets called “AFX”. They were a blast but they had two speeds, Go Like Hell and Stop. There wasn't much nuance in the middle. On the Tesla, because the regenerative braking is active the moment you let up the accelerator, it had that same feel, winding the car down to a stop in very short order. There is no "coasting". It did cruise very quietly and rode smoothly and was sort of like the 221 in that sense. The Auto Pilot works well. Currently it just mixes adaptive cruise with automatic braking down to a full stop, but updates are forthcoming that will take over steering. Lane changes require just clicking the turn signal stalk, and ultimately the car will be able to drive itself to you on private property using nothing but its sensors.
Next up was a demo in the new 671HP P85D, with air suspension and on great looking 21” wheels. It rode well but firmly. Like a 221 on 20's in Sport mode. It's also very quick. If you mash the accelerator from a dead stop it will launch with all of its torque instantly and convey you to 60 mph in 3 seconds or so. But it does it in such a boring way. The car pulls like crazy while the motors whine like they're pissed off and then suddenly there's “60” on the speedometer. The suspension isn't really specialized for the extra torque in the performance version, so the nose comes up in a very unbecoming Trans Am sort of way. (The sales guy did say the air suspension on the P85D is stiffer.) It needs ABC, or some electronic/magnetic equivalent, or a "launch mode" that puts the nose down and keeps it there.
Overall the P85D is like driving a really cool appliance. No grunt while an engine takes in air, no escalating exhaust note, no gear changes. Just zero then sixty. There's the whine, plus wind noise plus tire noise. It's a great toy car built on a massive scale.
I did not have the “gotta get one” moment I was expecting. It's a very disconnected, dispassionate exercise in personal transportation to me. Would it be fun to spank high performance ICE cars at red lights? Probably for a week or so. Good looking car? Definitely. Maybe the rear third is a little wonky with that hybrid sedan/hatchbacky design, but from every other angle it's a winner. Build quality and tolerances seemed up to par. Nothing screamed "brand new car builder's first effort" to me.
Worth the money? Well, the mid-level 85D car is $10,000 less than the P85D to start and has all the performance a normal person could want, with zero to sixty in 4.4 seconds (a new software upgrade just shaved a tenth off the original numbers.) So for me, no.
If I were to drive a Tesla I'd lease a 70D at $20,000 less and option it to the hilt. It needs the upgraded interior, the new seats, the upgraded audio, the auto pilot self driving system, the executive rear seat package, the optional center console(?), and the air suspension to be a fully formed car and that eats up a chunk of the $20k spread. The air suspension on the base 19's (which saves you $4500 over the 21's) would be my choice for ride quality, although they don't look nearly as cool.
In terms of options over performance I have nothing left to prove at red lights. Plus I have an 18 year old son on my insurance and do not need to add any vehicle that has an "Insane" mode. The mid level 85D would be a fair compromise if you wanted some extra electronic grunt at your disposal.
Since it took me two and a half hours to the Tesla store from my home in Gainesville, I asked how service works. Not so great it turns out. Originally, Tesla bent over backwards to take car of warranty issues at minimum disruption to the customer. Then they recently realized it was killing their bottom line. In fact, if there's an Achilles's Heal in the Tesla business plan its dealing with warranty costs when you want to totally kiss the customer's butt. This year they grossed like a gabillion dollars and netted a few hundred million.
So, if it needs service but is driveable they expect you to bring the car to them. Granted, there is no "maintenance" per se. Brakes and tires can be handled anywhere and those plus wiper blades are the only two wear items. If it has to be flat-bedded there's a prorated fee depending on distance. If they send a mobile “Ranger” unit it's $100. Labor for non warranty is $150/hr. If I lived within a half hour of a Tesla service center that would be fine. Until then, it's a deal killer for me.
So when you take into consideration the service issue, then factor in having your home's electric panel rewired to pull a new 50 amp/240 volt circuit for charging, and the issues involved with trip planning to avoid running out of juice it doesn't add up for me yet. While the Model S is in a league of its own in terms of innovation and tech, and leap frogged ICE cars in terms of how quickly it developed super-car acceleration, I can't say I'd be really hot to get one when the 221 is retired.
Surprisingly it's not because the interior was lacking. It's just not an engaging machine to me, and it didn't feel like the P85D car earned all of those extra ponies by overcoming the mechanical challenges an ICE car performing at the same level has. It just got more batteries and a software patch. When you think about the money, a nicely equipped 222 makes way more sense. Anyway, slipping back into the 221's cocoon and burning some dinosaur bones for the drive home felt pretty darn good either way.
04-21-2015, 09:54 PM
#15
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2014 E550 Cabriolet, 2014 Porsche Cayenne Diesel
Yeah, there was a lot about the car that I liked. I expected to love the high performance version and I was surprised that I didn't. An optioned out base 70D would be fine for me. The sweet spot seems to be the mid level 85D loaded up. A 3 year lease at 15000 miles/year is just shy of $1500/month.I do like the idea of home charging, although it's really at the car's convenience and not yours. If it needs a charge it needs a charge irrespective of the owner's schedule. Plus I have a 200 amp panel in an older home with two AC units, the usual 240 volt appliances, and I just added a 50 amp circuit for a spa so I'm pushing it. I'd probably need a new panel and new cable coming off the meter.
They still haven't conquered the destination challenge. You drive your car a couple hundred miles to a resort or to visit friends or whatever. You're two hundred miles away from your home charger. No overnight charging. If you want to do much driving once you're there you need to find a public charger somewhere, or plan your route home around the location of the nearest Supercharger.
On the service issue, if they opened a store or service center in Jacksonville (and they probably will) which is only an hour away I'd be fine.
They still haven't conquered the destination challenge. You drive your car a couple hundred miles to a resort or to visit friends or whatever. You're two hundred miles away from your home charger. No overnight charging. If you want to do much driving once you're there you need to find a public charger somewhere, or plan your route home around the location of the nearest Supercharger.
On the service issue, if they opened a store or service center in Jacksonville (and they probably will) which is only an hour away I'd be fine.
One bigger issue is the reduced range at high speeds. (Range vs. Speed curves are available on the Tesla blogs.) Keeping any car on long trips at 75mph or less would put me to sleep. So for me, when I need a medium distance car, the Tesla is a great choice.
04-22-2015, 11:39 AM
#16
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Right, it can't be your only car. Planning a long distance trip in the Tesla is akin to planning a flight in a private aircraft. You have to know in advance the places you can land, and if you run out of fuel mid flight you're screwed. For me (and a lot of people I'd imagine) even 200 miles of range per day is about 100 more than I need. I did like the car though. It's been stuck in my brain since I drove it. I can't imagine buying yet another ICE car when I'm done with the 221. It sucks that they don't take trades since private-selling an S Class is a pain.
04-22-2015, 02:36 PM
#17
MBWorld Fanatic!
I like the Tesla, but still think it's missing something from the exterior. I hope the next exterior change gives it a little more soul.
04-22-2015, 05:39 PM
#18
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Hmmm. That's actually one area I'm okay with. It's pretty sick looking in person, especially on the 21" wheels. If anything surprised me it was how little the amazing acceleration in the P85D impressed me. The performance is clearly there, but it felt less like driving a supercar and more like operating a very powerful vacuum cleaner.
I'm still probably gonna get one though (not the P85D though) because it's such a departure from anything else I've experienced. I think three S Class in a row is enough.
I'm still probably gonna get one though (not the P85D though) because it's such a departure from anything else I've experienced. I think three S Class in a row is enough.
