mercedesbenzs55

Your such a hat0r Dave. Only your car breaks down like you preach they do.

sloanbj

Lexus obviously retain value better as they are at the opposite end of the spectrum from MB on build quality and reliability. The LS460 has been described as the best production car ever assembled.

Mike5215

Nah. Go to an old LS460 forum and every other thread is someone crying the blues about one thing or another self destructing. The Lexus
is a less complex car to begin with with much fewer exotic systems to go bad but it's a myth that they don't age and fall apart just like every car.

Honestly, if brand isn't important (and I presume if you're buying a Lexus it's not) the Big Bang for the buck is the new Genesis or Equus. 100,000 mile warranty, big V8, every imaginable option and I learned that if you pull into a Hyundai store in an S Class they treat you like you're Jesus.

Or at least like Jesus' brother in law.

DaveW68

You're the kind of guy who's always wanted a unicorn so you can fly it over the rainbow and chase that elusive pot of gold. Put down the bong and read through this board. You'll see what these cars are really like once they get up there in miles and age. Although it wouldn't surprise if you still wouldn't understand even after reading thread after thread of guys paying out the **** for repairs and always complaining.

Reliability...yes. Build quality....nope.

alx

They are all crappy when they get older. Lexus has fewer child diseases, but once over those reliability is comparable.

Pick your poison lol...

On the 222 problems- we have dash/ cluster electrical issues.

ACRB

I bought a pristine 2007 550s without a warranty. the car had 39000 miles on it. This was 9 months ago. The car currently has 43K on the clock, and if I had to do it again, I absolutely would not! They are a major depreciating asset, that will always keep you guessing what will break next. My sincere advice is........do not buy it.

DaveW68

....unless you are able to obtain an exclusionary warranty that will cover the car for as long as you will own it. ACRB, you can still purchase a warranty for your car at a price that won't break the bank with your mileage. I think it would make your ownership experience A LOT better.

ACRB

I'll look into that. Thanks Dave.

adf111

Mike5215, I LOVE your quote above!
I tried the V8 Genesis, as well as Kia's K900. You're right, all the blows and whistles BUT(!!!!), no personality buddy. All plastic. Performance? Yes, if you press the pedal all the way down, pray that it'll reach the highs (420 hp @ 6400 rpm), maybe, at a 1/4 mile it'll be stronger than our S550. But hey, take a look a the torque 376 ft-lbs. @ 5000 rpm, while you and I are doing 391 ft-lbs. @ only 2800 rpm!!! That's at a 1/4 pedal down...

The big news is: I found another high mileage Designo! took it today to the stealer, and for a $270 "super pre-purchase inspection", I got a full report of what's wrong with the car. It was a CPO till 100K (2 months ago) and many systems, even of 75% functionality, were replaced under warranty. After lot of negotiations, I ended up getting it really dirty cheap.

I'm now a proud and HAPPY owner of W221 (need to sell me W220...), with real blows & whistles.

Oh, apropos LS460... I didn't like how it smells (it did smell like a Toyota)...

DaveW68

$100 GUY

And what a nasty show it is! LOL

fallen

I own 2010 CL (W216) which is based on a shorter W221.
Had ZERO issue with it over my 3 years of ownership.
Maintenance is expensive, but when done properly and timely will keep your ride in a top shape for a VERY long time.

Check out Uber Black S550's with ~200K on them! Still going strong!

Polar Bear

I literally almost just spit my tea out laughing!

DaveW68

For reliability, the ES is well ahead of the LS460. Unfortunately the Mercedes S is at the bottom of that list for luxury car reliability. As far as build quality, Mercedes is in the middle. But that is initial quality. As far as best built/solid car, the Mercedes S is among the tops, while the Lexus LS is lower. There's a reason why the S class is a lot heavier than the LS460. For quality of materials, the S class is leaps and bounds ahead of the LS460.

Polar Bear

For boringability, the ES or LS are leaps and bounds ahead of the S class without a doubt!

Very original - make a new car for the luxury segment, avoid names and copy the Germans and use letters and lumbers. "But what do we use?" Toyota asks. Another Toyota exec - "Easy. Take whatever Mercedes-Benz is using and put an "L" in front of it and the dumb Americans will buy it!

alx

The Es is ahead in reliability to the Ls because it is a Camry. Those tend to live forever... The Ls is a larger Avalon and those were always a step behind compared to the reliability of a Camry.

As somebody mentioned- the lexuses of the world may be more reliable. But have no character. So that precludes them from being candidates for my stable.

DaveW68

I've owned 5 Lexus' in the past, so I'm pretty adept at their history. Lexus wasn't trying to fool Americans with their nomenclature. For the earlier models, LS was "Luxury Sedan", ES was "Economy Sedan", and GS was "Gran Sedan". Then the numbers were the engine displacement. After Honda made a mild attempt at the luxury car market in the mid 80's with Acura, Toyota decided to take a shot at the Germans by building cars to compete against the BMW 7 & Mercedes S with their LS400....and the BMW 3 and Mercedes C with the ES250. Their plan was great by building in Toyota reliability, undercutting the Germans price point by 30% or more, and providing a service experience that had never been seen before. They stole a ton of business away from the Germans and were outselling them in their very 1st year of production.

By 1997, they wanted to go after the German high performance M and AMG divisions with the GS400. Of course those cars, although fast in their day, couldn't compete with the M5 and E50, especially in the handling department. Amazingly, all of these years later, Lexus still hasn't built a performance car that can keep up with the Germans. The RC is a laugher IMO. And Now Cadillac is beating the Germans in performance and have outstanding reliability for a 40% discount. Who'd have thunk it?

Their "F-Sport" division is a bit of a joke. Slap some badges on their base models, stiffen the suspension a bit (with no engine improvements), and all of a sudden they are sporty cars? LOL!!

If Lexus wouldn't have gone completely strange in their designs over the last 5 years, I'd probably still be driving one. You can get into a low mileage LS that is only 4 years old for less than half of original MSRP. They depreciate like crazy too.

I'm happy I purchased my 600. Although it does not have Lexus reliability, it outperforms the hell out of my old LS460, has better materials, more advanced equipment, is more solid, roomier, and drives better. But if I would not have been able to buy a great warranty, there's no way in hell I would have bought it.

DaveW68

Yes, the ES is based on the Camry. But the LS is nowhere near related to the Avalon. It's on its own platform. The Avalon is a FWD car based on a stretched Camry.

sloanbj

I find nothing luxurious about being stranded with warning lights flashing on the dash, watching a vehicle be lifted by a flatbed tow truck, or dealing with service managers.

KNBS550

Which is what happened to me when the radiator fan died and I got a high temp warning on the S550 a couple years ago. That's why I still have my solid Lexus ES as the other family car and would gladly buy another Lexus to replace it in a few years.

KNBS550

Actually, current generation ES is now based on the Avalon platform.

alx

correct. the japanese would make you believe the ls platform (f1) is unique. but when you put an avalon and ls on the lift they all look the same and have the same feel/ design philosophy.

bensitto

I bought my 07 Designo S550 with only 13K miles from the original owner. Its been a beast, great car to drive, very comfortable, lots of power, lots of room in the back for our 3 kids.

I'm currently at 110K miles. Maintenance can be expensive but I do lots of the work on the car myself.

DIY maintenance:

• Oil changes
• brake pads
• rotors
• spark plugs
• air filter cleanings (K&N)
• Cabin filters

Other repairs:

• 2 front lower control arms (fault bad roads in DC) at 95k
• Airmatic pump went bad 85k (all airmatic struts have been tested for leaks several times and they are still good)
• New conductor plate and valve body replaced at 105k (also known as transmission control Module - TCM) $1,500 job

Other than the Transmission Conductor Plate which seems to need replacement on many MB models around 100K or so the car has been easy to maintain, predictable and reliable. Its all about who owned the car before you and did they take good care of it. Get records, if the car has over 100k miles, check the airmatic system and see if the Conductor plate/Valve Body has been replaced already. (only the dealer or certified MB shop can replace this part so you will see it on the service records)