citruspilot

1997 E420, 161K. Last night as I was driving home from the airport in stop and go traffic my engine started to make a valve tap, single valve tap only. Sounds like its on the passenger bank towards the rear of the engine. I just had my oil changed about 1,000 miles ago with a sythentic blend. The oil level is at a normal level. As I go faster the noise is still there and when I stop at another stop light, sure enough, its there. Started it up this morning and it was there.............even engine cold. It just started no warning and has never done it before.......

Is there anything I can add to the crankcase to maybe stop this? My thought is there may be a small piece of trash, carbon, in the lifter. I am thinking of adding a can of SeaFoam and running it hard for awhile. Any thoughts??

Jeff

PS: I just bought an 03 E500. Going to pick-it up this weekend. Adding to my car corral. (Thats my wife slapping me on the head. She says: "First it was a speedboat and now its another Mercedes". She wants new carpet and new floors in the kitchen and masterbath......?? Yea, right!)

ohlord

it always been on synthetic,or did you switch from conventional oil?
check the oil level.Post the anwser to the first question,and I may have some solutions.

jimmydagreek

Might be a valve tap but could also just be lifters or those little plastic things on the lifters (sorry I'm not a mechanic but can get around, lol). Usually if you're running regular non-syn motor oil and you develop some valve or lifter noise synthetic oil will normally quiet it down or get rid of it. If the oil level is fine and you're running synthetic then it just might be the lifters. That's what it ended up being in my last 97 E420 with 140k+ miles and it wasn't that cheap to replace them. At least it wasn't in need of a valve job!

citruspilot

Ohlord, I dont know if its been on synthetic or not before I bought it. I bought it this time last year. I have changed the oil twice in the past year. I only drive about 10/12K a year so I change it every 5K or so. Both times I've changed it over the past year I put in a synthetic "blend" and not full synthetic...........

Jeff

ohlord

was not spec. for synthetic,and since you are running the blend,what weight?Did you check the level?if full,drain out a quart and put a quart of any good brand non synthetic atf fluid in and run it till your next oil change.Has helped in many cases where the wear has not gotten to the point of needing replacement.
keep us posted
nice looking ride

Untertürkheim

While your car does not "require" synthetic, it may solve your valve tap issue. There may be buildup of varnish in the lifters, the syn will slowly but surely clean it out. I have encountered this problem on many cars, and often this is a simple solution. Go for M1 0w-40 next time.

citruspilot

Ohlord, the oil level is at normal level. Not low, not high. Perfect. One thing about this car is it "will not" use even a half quart between changes. Its very good on oil consumption. Nor does it leak a drop of anything. Not bad for an 11 year old car with 161,000 miles!

I like your idea of adding atf fluid. I have heard of this before. I had an idea of adding a can of SeaFoam. It might do the same thing only faster, clean out a lifter so to speak. I guess I should then change the oil back to a high mileage kind. But what? 10W30" 20W50? I believe the blend I have in it now is 5W30............................not sure though.

I'll keep you posted and thanks for the replys gentlemen. But once I get the 03 E500 tomm I may never drive the E420 again....................

Jeff

tirona

citruspilot, personally i wouldn't add the seafoam to the engine. i would add the 1 qt of atf fluid with the oil change only as a last resort.
could not be the lifters, maybe is just some carbon buildup, dirty injectors. first thing i would do is add a can of bg44k to a half tank of gas, and drive that until near empty . that will clean your gasoline pathway pretty good.
also i wouldn't use 5w30 in an m119. i would use a 15w40, since you live in a warm climate. if you really want to clean your engine, change the oil to an oil that has a lot of detergents, like mobil delvac 15w40 (it;s approved for gasoline engines, even though it is a diesel engine oil). it will clean your engine pretty good. i would change it again after 500 miles, and then repeat the process a couple more times. this would be the only way i would try to clean my engine, not by adding any engine flush solutions.

ohlord

is not a flush,atf is not a flush.atf is a proven lifter quiet downer.
the stuff in engine flush,is just plain old kerosene,and i would not want to run that in my engine until the next oil change
while the atf can be ran until next change interval.
ohlord

citruspilot

OK, heres the results.................I did add a can of SeaFoam. Poured it right into the crankcase. As you know the oil filler cap is on the right bank and thats the side that was making the tap sound. Right after I started it up the noise was instantly softer and within a few minutes, gone. I have used SeaFoam in the past in my gas as a cleaning agent for the fuel system. I even poured a can in the crankcase last year when I was having a check engine light problem. The light was indicating a secondary air pump but the dealership said the pump worked fine, after I spent $250.00 for a diagnosis. They are the ones that suggested I pour a cleaning agent, like BG, into the engine to clean out carbon build-up from inside the engine. I chose SeaFoam because it was easier to find in the automotive store. It worked then and it worked now.

There is nothing wrong with adding SeaFoam to your oil or gas. I believe its magic in a can. Oh, by the way, this time last year NAPA sold a can of SeaFoam for $5.79. Now its $7.79. I should have bought stock........

Jeff

E-Class Owner

The M119 has short black plastic oil feed tubes that send the lubricant to the exhaust value hydraulic adjusters. On older engines, the end caps on the tubes can come loose, resulting in a loss of feed pressure. I am glad that the Seafoam cured the symptoms, but you should really take a look at the tubes and make sure they are intact. The actual parts involved are pretty inexpensive, and the replacement is not beyond an advanced DIY project.

JR

citruspilot

OK, its been 15 days since I posted the SeaFoam additive post. Well the valve tap has returned. OK, I know, I can hear it now "I told you so".

OK, lets revisit this problem. I just read the last post from E Class Owner. Interesting post. So the lack of pressure on maybe one of the lifters might be the cause? And its from a feed tube... My engine now has 162,000 and runs perfect, except for this annoying tap. Its a single valve tap. How hard is it to get to these feed tubes? Cost isnt my biggest concern but the complexity is. Is this something I can do with a little help from my best friend. He is a master tech with Lincoln/Mercury and has plenty of tools at his house. A case of beer and bottle of Tequila might get it fixed.......

On a more somber note I had to put my best friend to sleep this weekend. He was a Samoyed/Husky mix and had been like a son to me for over 12 years and was the only one in my house that ever listened to me. He had prostate cancer which had spread to his bladder. It happened rather quickly too. I left on Tuesday last week for a 4 day trip and returned Friday evening about 9:00PM. Six hours later he was gone...... Poor fella couldnt urinate. So without doing major surgery and making his life miserable thereafter we had him put to sleep. I have been a basket case ever since.........

Now this tapping noise! It is really getting on my nerves!!!!

Jeff

E-Class Owner

Here ya go:

http://www.mercedesshop.com/Wikka/M119OilGuides

Once open, I would do all the feed tubes on that bank, as they inexpensive parts, and are all going to be the same age; others failures will be soon to follow...

Good luck on the repair.

ohlord

Sorry for your loss.Had an old dog with cancer years ago,and holding her in my arms as the doc did the best thing for her, was and may always be one of the most difficult things I have ever done.
our prayers are with you........

ohlord

citruspilot

Holy Crap! This is the perfect article for my problem!!! OK, I'll come clean. I put a can of Marvel Mystery oil in her this afternoon. I drove the car around for about 30 minutes doing errands. The engine tapped the whole time as I drove around. (I felt like a lowlife driving a junker.) Anyway, a few hours later after I returned home I decided to start the car up in the garage just for the hell of it. Guess what? The tap had stopped. Gone! I drove it to the cleaners to get my uniform shirts for my trip tomm and not one tap. I guess in about a week or so the tap will come back as the mystery stuff in Marvels Mystery oil will burn off just like the article noted...................

E Class Owner, what a find. Thanks for the article. This is my first Mercedes and once I heard the tapping I was sure that replacing cams, lifters, and whatever else would cost a ton, if I didnt ruin the motor first. As it turns out maybe $75.00 and an afternoon will solve the tap...........until the drivers side needs it!

I have learned so much from this site. Thanks to you all in keeping us informed. I'll just keep reading and learning!

Jeff

citruspilot

Ohlord, thank you. Your right. It was very, very difficult for me and still is. My whole weekend has been a blur, like a bad dream. I cried like a young boy as he lowered his head to the floor and quietly passed on while in my arms, and I am 51 years old. It really was a hard thing to do. Actually I was surprised that it happened so fast, like in about 10 to 15 seconds. I can still hear in my mind the vet saying: "He's gone". His eyes were open and he looked so peaceful. My first thoughts were that I had let him down and made a very bad decision almost like "What have I done?" I instantly wanted him back, it had only been a few seconds afterall. But the vet assured me he would have had a very difficult life and actually I did the right thing. He never really suffered with his cancer. I would have never guessed that taking Koley to the vet that night for what seemed to be nothing serious would turn into his final night with us. He seemed so normal earlier in the evening he just couldnt go potty. Talk about a shock. I am still looking for him to come around the corner at any moment............

Folks who never had a dog in their life and grew to love and adore it can possibly understand what I am saying. But I am sure you do. It's like losing a child...............

Hey, have a Happy Thanksgiving folks. I'll be out safely delivering all of you to your families over the holiday! Its my job.

Jeff

ohlord

A food manufacturing company for 25 years,for a few years after Viet Nam and the navy as a radarman and electronic warfare tech, I studied veterinary medicine,they always taught us that a dog is so eager to please its master that they will endure anything to keep you from feeling bad when they are ill.
Never question the decision.While no words do for how tough it is on you,you now know the peace she went to.

back to the thread
When the mystrery oil wears off,change the oll in a few weeks and if I remember you said you were using 20w 50 which may be part of the problem,the oil is to thick and is not allowing the cam follower/lifter to do it's job.

citruspilot

To all those who may be experiencing the same valve tap noise. E Class Owner hit the nail on the head. I bought the parts indicated in his post from the dealership. Installed all 8 on the right bank last night and the noise it gone. Not even at start-up. Gone! One of the oil feed tubes had the end pop off. Last one on the right bank. Job took about two hours to do. Not hard at all. The lower right rear valve cover bolt was the hardest part, not much room on the E class compared to the S class as depicted in the article.

Anyway, now I wait until the the left bank starts tapping and do that side. Parts were about $150.00 from Benz...............

Many thanks to E Class Owner again.........

Jeff

vettdvr

YES use full synthetic.

ohlord

to be a common problem on the 420 engine,did you follow the diy on benzworld.org or the one on mercedesshop.com?
glad it is fixed

citruspilot

ohlord, as E Class Owner, his post above, pointed out I used the mercedesshop.com link he provided. The author has an older S420 and thats the same engine. I had the exact same problem as he did. Once I replaced all the oil feed tubes on the right bank problem solved. I did have a failed oil feed tube. The ends pop off with time and heat I guess. It was last one on the right bank, nearest the firewall.

Merry Christmas!

Jeff

dqueend36

You can give this a try it might be cam oil braces
Replacing Cam Oil Line Fittings (Oil Guides)