notatroll

Hello everyone! My question to you is why is the m5 faster than e63s from the roll? Apparently the e63s makes more power but yet it loses in a straight away. We can say the awd has greater power loss to the wheels but even if we look at dyno numbers (correct me if im wrong) but the e63s makes same or more power then m5 at the wheels. So if it makes same power to the wheels, doesn't that take the awd drivetrain loss out of the equation when comparing roll racing? So what makes the m5 faster? Gearing?
Not trying to troll. Just looking for technical answers as to why that is.

nynd

Not sure if it's faster - if you look at the 0-60 times, E is faster from a stand still. Had an M5 before - it is powerful and if someone has that tuned or a JB4 box on it etc, then they'll be a definitely faster. Both are powerful cars - enjoy!

PeterUbers

Not-a-troll

Interesting name and interesting first post ever on this forum

Sounds like you have all the answers you need.

notatroll

That's why I said from a roll though
The e63s is obviously faster from a stand still up to probably 100-110mph

notatroll

Stop trolling

notatroll

Im just trying to get to technical or mechanical aspect of this. I will post this on m5post as well to get some answers from m5 people

TMC M5

Having had an F10 (2013) BMW M5 and now an E63 S, I would say that (stock against stock) the M5 is faster from a roll at speeds where traction is not an issue. I am waiting to confirm this with my vbox. But I only tested the M5 in cool weather, so to be fair, I will wait until similar conditions to test the E63 S. But in low 40 degree fall weather, the M5 ran 60-130mph in 8.57s with just drop-in filters and mufflers (doubtful it added much hp, but I have AFE drop in filters going in the E63 S). I will also test on the same stretch of road (2% decline).

I ended up doing catted down pipes, air intakes and BMS tune on the M5. The colder weather became an issue trying to get a clean 60-130 run as I was spinning at 60+mph. I never got a completely clean run and still ran under 7.8s with those mods.

PeterUbers

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ifference.html

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...uned-14-a.html

There's your technical talk re: same powered rwd vs awd

What exactly are you looking for that you haven't learned already? Gear ratios? 0-30, 0-60, 60-130 data? Videos of the two head to head?

More technical talk

notatroll

I get what you are saying. Two same cars, one awd and another rwd. RWD takes the win, i get that. make a awd m5 vs rwd m5 and RWD will win, sure.
What Im looking at is e63s vs f10 m5 or even m6. Where the AMG makes more power, weights less but still falls back. For example take a look at this video where Chris Harris drag races e63s (RWD) against m6 gc which weights 150lbs more than that e63s. My questions is how can the heavier less powerful car like the m5/m6 be faster?

PeterUbers

The way the engine delivers the power is different, when the torque comes on and how long is stays before it falls off.... The gearing and final drive ratio... The efficiency of the BMW transmission may be superior... Shifting may be faster with the dct, less parasitic and frictional losses in the rwd platform vs awd... The list goes on... Your question is being answered over and over, did you read those links?

Why don't you compare a rwd e63S to an m5 comp package?

TMC M5

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...specs-page-5-2

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...-e63-amg-1.pdf

Maybe the same explanation as to why the heavier M6 GC with supposedly same HP and powertrain is quicker than the M5.

notatroll

I went over the links briefly. Seemed like they are mostly talking about awd vs rwd. The point I was trying to make from beginning is how the more powerful and lighter car falls behind in a race. Which comes down to what you said i suppose. Power range, gearing and final drive. I wouldn't think the transmission plays a big role when comparing these two cars. I mean its not like a manual vs dct difference type of thing.
Is the rwd e63s faster than the m5 cp? Or is the m5 cp faster than the m6 gc in video above? That would answer the first question. And does anyone know what are the actual "technical"l difference between e63s vs m5/m6... gearing, power range etc

notatroll

Great links. Thanks! I will have to go over the numbers when I get time. Or maybe someone who understands those numbers better can explain what they mean.

PeterUbers

The dct is a more efficient transmission than the mct. A more efficient transmission means more power to the wheels and faster shifts

Other variables include drag coefficients, not sure but the m5 may have less drag; those hp and torque numbers are peak, but hp and tq is dynamic and changes per rpm, so they are kind of meaningless sometimes with two very similar cars. In those links is an indepth discussion about how a car can dyno with higher hp and tq numbers but fall on its a$$ on the track against a lower powered car

What's your end game, you looking to buy one of these, already own one, just messing around on the web?

notatroll

I am in fact looking to buy one of two. So i was looking at some facts and this ended up catching my attention the most. How the m5 is faster than e63. Now im not going to decided on which to get by looking at some numbers on the internet but it just got my attention.

EddieK

You should buy the M5.

TMC M5

Some more data for you to analyze from this test:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...-65-7-roa0314/

You will notice that the M5 CP has a lower 1/4 mile trap speed (122.3mph) and slower 60-130mph (9.7s) interval compared to the E63 S (123.1mph and 9.6s). The E63 S has a 2 HP advantage (if you believe the ratings) and is significantly heavier than the M5 CP.

notatroll

Would love to see the results. That would be a good comparison for everyone on forum.

notatroll

Interesting, i think thats the highest trap speed for e63s that i have seen

proxygeek

First off, the standard F10 M5 IS NOT faster than the E63 S AMG 4 Matic. PERIOD.

I am so sick of hearing how some cars are faster, ON A ROLL .

The LAUGHABLE BMW launch control makes M cars very difficult to launch at stoplights, that is unless you're a PlayStation gamer and have every cheat code to Mortal Kombat memorized by heart . The M6 Grand Coupe is a masterpiece of a car (beautiful too) and the E63 S AWD even beats that off the line.

Anyone who can actually drive and can time their paddle shifts well can smoke F10 M5s on the freeway too. You can tell by the 3-honk starts on the freeway that these guys are racing in auto and not manual shift in most of the videos I have seen.

The M5 is a very nice car and I'm certainly not putting it down, but it's not E63 S fast, it's just not.

vikingdiesel

probably some 18yr old kid with an 07 GTI who strokes the forums asking about which car is faster that he can afford 10yrs from now (maybe longer)

proxygeek

Classic DCT is OVERRATED BTW and the MB Speedshift MCT proves it in the numbers the E63 S puts down. Everybody says it's old, it sucks, it's this, and it's that, but then the numbers makes everyone look very stupid. While the MCT isn't a classic DCT, it's most certainly performing dual clutch shifting.

Just saying, another pet peeve of mine. DCT this and DCT that. The MCT tranny is one of the best transmissions in the world and yet we complain like it blows when it's actually a technological marvel.

proxygeek

+1

TMC M5

The cars are very close in speed... the M5 is every bit as fast at speed .. probably even faster. With just drop-in filters and mufflers my M5 went 11.835 @ 120.87mph without using launch control in 2k'+ DA.

http://www.dragtimes.com/2013-BMW-M5-Specs-25676.html

I know you love your E63 (I love mine too), but don't let that blind you to the fact that M5 is a very fast car at speed and at least the E63's equal.

efiftyfizzle

BMW M owners are pretty loyal to the brand and I know for a fact they're finally happy to have a car that they can spin the tires on...

Coming from an E55 AMG, I enjoyed the RWD and crazy torque at the beginning, but once you start modding a little bit, 1st gear becomes so useless. The E63s is so great off the line (with the exception of the throttle delay), and driving from stop light to stop light is very entertaining. To me, the perfect performance car is not the one with the best track time, but rather the one that can be exhilarating around the city and also on the highway. I feel like the E63s does that well and with a tune it does it even better.