The Shoeman

Hi,

I'm going to be starting an engine swap from a 2001 E430 (good engine) to a 2000 ML 430 (bad head gasket). Everything I've read says it's easier to do a head gasket on these engines outside of the engine compartment than inside, and where I have a working M113 engine, I'll just swap them and fix the head gasket some other time.

I've done engine swaps in other makes of cars and I've done a transmission swap on a E430 4-matic. Not too worried about doing this job, i just need to find the time, because I don't work quickly.

My plan is to remove the engine and transmission as a unit and then swap the engines. From what I've read, this will be the easiest to tackle this project.

I guess my questions are:


1. Is there anything I should know or watch out for with this job?

2. What differences are there between the engine set-ups? 3. Has anyone done this swap before that can chime in with some words of wisdom?

Thank you all for anything you can provide for making this job I'm going to start go as smooth as possible.


Bill

kajtek1

You are aware the even those engines share the pistons, the blocks are different?
Motor mounts are different, I believe 4M transmission bolting is different, different engine management and cooling system.
Since you might be the first one doing such job, take lot of pictures and post here.

The Shoeman

Thanks for the thoughts. It's making me think deeper.

I'm pretty sure the blocks are the same though, but I definitely agree with you that the motor mounts are different. It's the motor mount bracket that is the first piece that's different and that will be removed from the Ml430 engine and reused on the donor engine from the E430.

I will continue to research if there are any differences between the two engines where the transmissions mount. I have done a quick comparison of photos online and they both look the same, but that's not a 100% foolproof way of verifying if it fits or not.

What do you mean by "engine management" and how is the actual engine different regarding this concern?

And how is the cooling system different? Is the water pump or thermostat different?

I'm still in 'research mode' for this project so PLEASE continue to give me feedback about the potential swap.

Thank you very much.

I really do appreciate all of the help I get.


Bill

kajtek1

I drove ML few years back, so don't remember the details, but how the front axles clear oil pan?
I think crucial would be transmission bolt pattern, as when that one doesn't match, the whole idea is down the drain.
Talking about software, ML has program to recirculate the coolant after shut down, E does not.
ML has program that applies rear brakes before front, E does not.
I guess gear shifting points are different as well, so depends which computer you use, it will go one way, or the other.
This is going to be lot of fan.

The Shoeman

Ok, I wasn't aware of the issue with the oil pan clearing the front axles. I will definitely look into that. Thank you. I'm guessing I'll just swap oil pans then.

I'm not going to be swapping computers or transmissions or brakes. It'll just the engine. But again, I wasn't aware of what you pointed out with the rear brakes being applied before the front and the recirculation of the coolant after shutdown. That's very interesting to know. Thank you.

So i guess my question would be, are any of the control systems or sensors on the engine itself for what you just mentioned? Or will all that stay with the ML430?

As of right now, it looks as though I will need to change:

1. the oil pan
2. engine mount brackets because different types of motor mounts are used.
3. (possibly) the oil cooler, but I'm thinking not really because I don't plan on towing anything. Let me know if I should change that over for some other reason other than towing.


Thank you.

Bill

kajtek1

I never heard about anybody before doing such swap, so you will have to break the ice and I bet you will find more issues like one I knew from top of my head.
I hope you are good with computers as remarrying the engine to different computers seems to be the biggest task for other engine swaps.

The Shoeman

Maybe I'm being too optimistic but I'm thinking I'm not going to have computer issues because the computers are staying with the ML430 and most other parts seem to be the same from engine to engine...just some different bolt-on items that shouldn't be too difficult to swap once the engines are out of the vehicles.

I'm going to try to take pictures of the job. (No promises though :-) )

Plutoe

You have a very sound project, don't let our biggest spammer and misinformation purveyor discourage you---he frequently drifts over here from an auto dating service to acquire posts!!Be watchful

The Shoeman

I was under the impression that the struggles with other engine swaps and remarrying the computer to the new engine was because the donor engine was very different. Like putting an AMG engine from an E55 into a non-AMG car like a C320.

The Shoeman

Thank you for the heads up. I usually fact check when something new that doesn't really make sense is presented.

Thanks again.

The Shoeman

I am about to start this procedure and have it completed within 3 weeks (I don't plan on rushing through this) I know it shouldn't take this long but I'm doing it at night as well as some weekend days when there's nothing going on in my busy life.

I found this in an eBay listing for a Mercedes engine from a 2000 S430

It took a little to understand where they were going with the information they were presenting, but I think I've figured it out. I think this is just some generic information regarding the M113 engines and what's different between them, but very helpful if it's all good.

So, in my case, I'm taking an engine from a 2001 E430 and plan on putting it into a 2000 ML430. According to this information I found, I will be taking a letter 'E' engine and changing it into a letter 'D' engine.....all that's needed to change is the oil pan (upper and lower pans) and exhaust manifolds

Along with the standard notes he provided.

"Hollander Interchange Notes:
Flywheel may need to be included. Inspect bolt pattern.
Change induction and electrical systems as necessary.
Oil pans will differ."



Please ANYONE, let me know if this is inaccurate or incomplete.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

INTERCHANGE:
A: MERCEDES C-CLASS 98-00 202 Type; C43
B: MERCEDES E-CLASS 98-99 210 Type; E430
C: MERCEDES CLK 03 208 Type; (Conv), CLK430
C: MERCEDES CLK 99-02 208 Type; CLK430
C: MERCEDES S-CLASS 03-06 220 Type; S430
D: MERCEDES ML-CLASS 99-01 163 Type; ML430
E: MERCEDES E-CLASS 00-02 210 Type; E430, RWD
F: MERCEDES E-CLASS 00-02 210 Type; E430, AWD
G: MERCEDES S-CLASS 00-02 220 Type; S430

Hollander Interchange Notes:
Flywheel may need to be included. Inspect bolt pattern.
Change induction and electrical systems as necessary.
Oil pans will differ.
10:1 ratio.
|A| thru |G| interchange as shown in notes.
A -----------
MB 1130105905 block $13370
Mercedes C43.
4266cc, 302 H.P.
AMG.
M113.944.
Exact fit only.
B -----------
MB 1130105905 block $13370
MB 1130100800
Mercedes E430.
4266cc, 275 H.P.
113.940.
|C| fits by changing exhaust manifold.
|D| fits by changing exhaust manifolds and timing cover.
|E| & |G| fit; difference is timing cover, water pump & exhaust manifolds.
C -----------
MB 1130105905 block $13370
MB 1130300401 crankshaft, thru eng. #30 573006 $3300
MB 1130301001 crankshaft, from eng. #30 573007 $3300
MB 1130101920 R, head $3700
MB 1130503501 R, cam $1040
MB 1130101820 L, head $3700
MB 1130503401 L, cam $1100
MB 1131400701 intake manifold $1640
MB 1120100633 timing chain, thru eng #30 000206 $482
MB 1120100733 timing chain, from eng #30 000207 $482
MB 1130140102 upper oil pan $410
MB 1130141402 upper oil pan, S430 RWD $525
MB 1130140702 upper oil pan, S430 AWD $515
MB 1130100328 lower oil pan, S430 AWD $142
MB 1120100628 lower oil pan $140
Change oil pan as necessary.
Compare timing chain covers when interchanging.
Mercedes CLK430.
4266cc, 275 H.P.
113.943.
|B| fits by changing exhaust manifold.
|D| & |F| fit; differences are exhaust manifolds and oil pan.
|E| & |G| fit; differences are timing cover, oil pan & exhaust manifolds.
D -----------
MB 1130105905 block $13370
Mercedes ML430.
4266cc, 268 H.P.
113.942.
|B| fits by changing water pump, timing cover and exhaust manifolds
|C| fits by changing exhaust manifolds and oil pan.
|E| & |G| fit; differences are oil pan & exhaust manifolds.
E -----------
MB 1130105905 block $13370
|B| fits; difference is timing cover, water pump & exhaust manifolds.
|C| fits; differences are timing cover, oil pan & exhaust manifolds.
|D| fits; differences are oil pan & exhaust manifolds.
|F| fits; differences are timing cover & oil pan.
|G| fits; difference is oil pan.
F -----------
MB 1130105905 block $13370
|B| fits; difference is oil pan.
|C| & |D| fit; differences are oil pan & exhaust manifolds.
|E| & |G| fit; differences are timing cover & oil pan.
G -----------
MB 1130105905 block $13370
|B| fits; difference is timing cover, water pump, oil pan & exhaust manifolds.
|C| fits; differences are timing cover, oil pan & exhaust manifolds.
|D| fits; differences are oil pan & exhaust manifolds.
|E| fits; difference is oil pan.
|F| fits; differences are timing cover & oil pan.


Huge thanks to this eBay member http://www.ebay.com/usr/expressauto3...p2047675.l2559 for a very informative auction listing.

(I don't know who this is, I only found his information that I thought I would share)

kajtek1

Take the ebay fitment information with huge grain of salt.
I had it coming automatically when I listed seat adjustment switch.
I did not take the time to check if my switch would fit the 50 or so models that were added to my listing, so I deleted the option.

The Shoeman

This isn't the 'eBay fitment' info. This is information directly from the seller.

I'm not 100% certain of his information, which is why I'm posting it here to double check to see if it's accurate.

I'm just trying to do my homework....it appears that the eBay seller has done his, just don't know how well of a job he did.

Klaus Klaus

Hey my friend? Did it end well? Because i want to do myself an engine swap s430 to ml430?