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Mods: EC Midlength headers, 83mm pulley, HE, split cooling, x-pipe no resonators or cats, RaceIQ TCU and EC ECU.
Problem: After installation of headers and wielding, i got the first set of codes posted below (Lean post catylic codes for both banks)
I took car to my mechanic to retorque downpipes, headers and make sure o2's are in properly.
Took care several times to exhaust shop to rewield and check exhaust leaks (latest today, no leaks anywhere). O2's are not extended, no spacers or elbows, no leaks at bungs.
Took car to dealer to check for vacuum leaks or any other leaks. No leaks.
Flashed stock ecu file: Got the obvious codes for no cats (2nd pic attached).
What should I do now?
I've spent time + money chasing what seems to be a ghost issue.
The variable in this case is the tune. If i had a leak or something wrong with o2's wouldn't i get the lean codes regardless?
I did not.
I have also attached datalogging file i took of a 5 minute drive last night with a few WOT's via euroflash sw
Someone chime in, give me your thoughts.
I was literally at my guys exhaust shop yesterday , while on the phone with Eurocharged, was told not to use the 90 deg elbows
I would get a new exhaust shop or realize that they don't know what they're talking about. Apparently they have no clue what the ECU wants and needs to see satisfy the parameters it is looking for. Just get the 90 degree extensions and be done with it. Oh and not all 90 degree extensions will work either. Good.luck.
I would get a new exhaust shop or realize that they don't know what they're talking about. Apparently they have no clue what the ECU wants and needs to see satisfy the parameters it is looking for. Just get the 90 degree extensions and be done with it. Oh and not all 90 degree extensions will work either. Good.luck.
I've used two diff exhaust shop, but the last exhaust shop ive used 3 times in a row
and for the record Eurocharged is the one that advised not to use 90 degree elbow
Also, is the ECU not set to read wider parameters to avoid a CEL with the Tune?
EC sent me a new tune today, flashed it cleared CEL will complete drive cycle tonight
my understanding is you have 3 choices,
have EC code them out with tune
code them out with STAR
do the O2 extenders
let us know how it gets resolved -- i have a set of headers i want to put on and dont want to have the same issues (post pic of the extender if you go that route - also did you weld in flex connectors ? thx
I've used two diff exhaust shop, but the last exhaust shop ive used 3 times in a row
and for the record Eurocharged is the one that advised not to use 90 degree elbow
Also, is the ECU not set to read wider parameters to avoid a CEL with the Tune?
EC sent me a new tune today, flashed it cleared CEL will complete drive cycle tonight
If you have the rear O2's on then you will get the same codes without using the right O2 extenders. Who at Eurocharged told you that? Are you sure you understand it is the rear O2's that the extensions go into. You are getting theses codes due to the fact that it is reading that there has been no change in the exhaust gas according to the rear readings. Taking the sensor out of the direct exhaust stream will cause the rear to read differently from the primary O2. That's what you need to do. It is really as simple as that. If the rear O2's are turned off then they will never complete their OBD on board emission even though you won't get a CEL.
If you have the rear O2's on then you will get the same codes without using the right O2 extenders. Who at Eurocharged told you that? Are you sure you understand it is the rear O2's that the extensions go into. You are getting theses codes due to the fact that it is reading that there has been no change in the exhaust gas according to the rear readings. Taking the sensor out of the direct exhaust stream will cause the rear to read differently from the primary O2. That's what you need to do. It is really as simple as that. If the rear O2's are turned off then they will never complete their OBD on board emission even though you won't get a CEL.
Yes i understand it's due to the similar readings between front and back.
I cannot recall his name now it was friday afternoon though and i emailed phil and jerry shortly after advising them of this. Again i literally have an email from jerry listing the 5 things that would cause the light, one of them was "spacers of any kind".
from the email:
"1. The ECU was coded to not use REAR 02’s and we were not told.
2. 02 spacers were used on the REAR 02’s (any kind).
3. The REAR 02’s were cut and extended.
4. The 02’s were swapped left to right bank or front to rear.
5. There were leaks in the exhaust system causing false readings."
It's not #1, , its not #2 , not 3, not 4, and not 5 as i've done all my homework thus far
At this point i'm conflicted MBWorld and community tells me one thing and the dealer and EC tells me another
My biggest beef is that there was no expectations set up front, i told them the list of my mods, they are the experts they should of advised before anything of what I will have to go through or do to get rid of CEL.
i'm going to go to my exhaust shop again today (3 times in the last week).
I''m going to have him install elbows to give a diff reading for the rears.
Your first set of codes could be an exhaust leak before the rear O2's that is letting in air which is a definite possibility. The 2nd set of cat codes cannot be corrected unless the exhaust leak is fixed. If the cat codes are still present after the exhaust leak is found and corrected then the 90 degree elbows will work. Are the rear o2's after a slip fit on your exhaust? What is your exhaust set up and where are the rear O2's situated? We'll get this figured out sooner or later. Have faith!
Your first set of codes could be an exhaust leak before the rear O2's that is letting in air which is a definite possibility. The 2nd set of cat codes cannot be corrected unless the exhaust leak is fixed. If the cat codes are still present after the exhaust leak is found and corrected then the 90 degree elbows will work. Are the rear o2's after a slip fit on your exhaust? What is your exhaust set up and where are the rear O2's situated? We'll get this figured out sooner or later. Have faith!
I look at it like a scientific experiment. If the leak was consistent and "real", then the codes for the running lean would be persistent regardless of the variable (the tune). It is not, the running leak codes magically disappear when on stock ECU.
the second set of cat codes are obvious because i have no cats ( on stock ecu file, on tuned file the deficiency cat codes disappear)
Im going back to the exhaust shop right now, going to slap some 90 degree elbows on it and see.
Ahmed - You can clearly see the exhaust leak in the pictures you sent us. Please just code them out with STAR and be done with the issue (see attached pic).
Meet back up with the first guy you met and we can show you how to not get the error you got above.
We will need to provide a tune with the 02 sensors ON if you are going to try spacers. They MAY work today and not work tomorrow. Some work better than others.
I understand you may feel that it is our responsibility to tell you up front all of the issues you MIGHT have. However, there are hundreds of 55's on this forum with your EXACT mods purchased from us with NO codes. You say the anomaly is our tune, but it isn't true. The less than par exhaust work is the anomaly since we have hundreds of 55's running around with these mods.
I've told you how to fix the issue once and for all and now you're choosing to try spacers. Don't be surprised if they don't work and leave the OEM file on the car for up to 100 miles to ensure the issue is gone. If by some chance it is, then let me know and I will make a NEW TUNE with the rear 02's on. The current tune file will not work with spacers.
Ahmed - You can clearly see the exhaust leak in the pictures you sent us. Please just code them out with STAR and be done with the issue (see attached pic).
Meet back up with the first guy you met and we can show you how to not get the error you got above.
We will need to provide a tune with the 02 sensors ON if you are going to try spacers. They MAY work today and not work tomorrow. Some work better than others.
I understand you may feel that it is our responsibility to tell you up front all of the issues you MIGHT have. However, there are hundreds of 55's on this forum with your EXACT mods purchased from us with NO codes. You say the anomaly is our tune, but it isn't true. The less than par exhaust work is the anomaly since we have hundreds of 55's running around with these mods.
I've told you how to fix the issue once and for all and now you're choosing to try spacers. Don't be surprised if they don't work and leave the OEM file on the car for up to 100 miles to ensure the issue is gone. If by some chance it is, then let me know and I will make a NEW TUNE with the rear 02's on. The current tune file will not work with spacers.
Ahmed - You can clearly see the exhaust leak in the pictures you sent us. Please just code them out with STAR and be done with the issue (see attached pic).
Meet back up with the first guy you met and we can show you how to not get the error you got above.
We will need to provide a tune with the 02 sensors ON if you are going to try spacers. They MAY work today and not work tomorrow. Some work better than others.
I understand you may feel that it is our responsibility to tell you up front all of the issues you MIGHT have. However, there are hundreds of 55's on this forum with your EXACT mods purchased from us with NO codes. You say the anomaly is our tune, but it isn't true. The less than par exhaust work is the anomaly since we have hundreds of 55's running around with these mods.
I've told you how to fix the issue once and for all and now you're choosing to try spacers. Don't be surprised if they don't work and leave the OEM file on the car for up to 100 miles to ensure the issue is gone. If by some chance it is, then let me know and I will make a NEW TUNE with the rear 02's on. The current tune file will not work with spacers.
I've asked you numerous times for a reference to someone or a "partner" in the area with STAR since i do not have access to it. I've done my due dilligence to find STAR locally and no indy will do it.
I went back to the exhaust shop today, that is not a leak in the photo, it was just from the wield as there was no air coming out during inspection with the stethoscope , I also have documentation from the dealer that no exhaust leak exists between headers and rear o2's, the exhaust shop then did another inspection and found none between the two points either.
I had elbows put on today and flashed original ECU file from August sent to me by Jerry, if this won't work with the elbow, please advise me which file it is i'm supposed to flash (i've gotten 3 so far).
A business should set expectations of any product sold for the application it was sold for. Frustration is due to the length of time this is taking to resolve this, time and money I have spent so far chasing this.
Please, logically, and mechanically, explain to me, educate me, if you can, how I am not getting the same codes on stock ecu if I truly have an exhaust leak?
I've asked you numerous times for a reference to someone or a "partner" in the area with STAR since i do not have access to it. I've done my due dilligence to find STAR locally and no indy will do it.
I went back to the exhaust shop today, that is not a leak in the photo, it was just from the wield as there was no air coming out during inspection with the stethoscope , I also have documentation from the dealer that no exhaust leak exists between headers and rear o2's, the exhaust shop then did another inspection and found none between the two points either.
I had elbows put on today and flashed original ECU file from August sent to me by Jerry, if this won't work with the elbow, please advise me which file it is i'm supposed to flash (i've gotten 3 so far).
A business should set expectations of any product sold for the application it was sold for. Frustration is due to the length of time this is taking to resolve this, time and money I have spent so far chasing this.
Please, logically, and mechanically, explain to me, educate me, if you can, how I am not getting the same codes on stock ecu if I truly have an exhaust leak?
We don't have anyone in the area with STAR except the person you posted about above. We have asked you numerous times to send us the ECU so we can code them out with our STAR but you refused to send in the ECU. I understand it's a daily driver, but a $26 a day car rental seems like a ton less than what you've spent chasing the issue to date.
Please, logically, and mechanically, explain to me, educate me, if you can, how I am not getting the same codes on stock ecu if I truly have an exhaust leak?
You won't get the fuel trim codes because the check engine is already set for catalyst efficiency fault and the particular subroutine will not run until that issue is fixed.
I'll be happy to take a look at a few things via TeamViewer / EuroFlash but you'll need to provide me access to your laptop / car for a bit while I test.
We don't have anyone in the area with STAR except the person you posted about above. We have asked you numerous times to send us the ECU so we can code them out with our STAR but you refused to send in the ECU. I understand it's a daily driver, but a $26 a day car rental seems like a ton less than what you've spent chasing the issue to date.
Please, logically, and mechanically, explain to me, educate me, if you can, how I am not getting the same codes on stock ecu if I truly have an exhaust leak?
You won't get the fuel trim codes because the check engine is already set for catalyst efficiency fault and the particular subroutine will not run until that issue is fixed.
I'll be happy to take a look at a few things via TeamViewer / EuroFlash but you'll need to provide me access to your laptop / car for a bit while I test.
Got Elbows installed yesterday, cleared codes, drove home, this morning did remote team viewer with EC, new ecu file flashed, drove 120 miles today, no codes, and emissions systems showing as ready.
Got Elbows installed yesterday, cleared codes, drove home, this morning did remote team viewer with EC, new ecu file flashed, drove 120 miles today, no codes, and emissions systems showing as ready.
If you have the rear O2's on then you will get the same codes without using the right O2 extenders. Who at Eurocharged told you that? Are you sure you understand it is the rear O2's that the extensions go into. You are getting theses codes due to the fact that it is reading that there has been no change in the exhaust gas according to the rear readings. Taking the sensor out of the direct exhaust stream will cause the rear to read differently from the primary O2. That's what you need to do. It is really as simple as that. If the rear O2's are turned off then they will never complete their OBD on board emission even though you won't get a CEL.
I needed to disable in both STAR and used the 90* extenders. Turning them off in STAR and leaving them on in the tune file will result in a NA or not available; not a NR or not ready.
12-02-2016, 05:44 PM
