Top Hydraulics

The "speaker" is inside the dome light assembly. Taking off the dome light assembly requires tilting out the map light lenses, pulling off the rear view mirror assembly, and then removing four or five Phillips screws. Since most rear view mirrors are quite fragile at this point, and removing the mirror is usually done by pulling down swiftly on the mirror assembly, you are better off avoiding this procedure and simply removing the soft top controller fuse in the trunk (boot). As I wrote in my previous response on March 2nd, there are four top-related fuses in the trunk. Check the label on the fuse box and remove the one responsible for the soft top controller (I believe it is one of the lower ones, but do not remember which). Better yet, tell the forum which one it was.


Let us know how things work out.

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

adrian39

Hi Klaus.
I did take off all the fuses in the trunk,left only the top two for the windows...i did not stop the beeping...funny that..!!!I may need to kill the speaker...
Many thanks for reply

Regards
Adrian

Top Hydraulics

Adrian,

sorry that I gave you the wrong advice - I don't have an early model SL to try this out on. Try the fuse in the engine compartment that powers the horn. I believe it is fuse number 6 in early model SLs. This also powers some of the soft top circuitry. Hope that will do it. If that doesn't help, then I will dig up a photo of which wire needs to be clipped in the dome light assembly.

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

rgp717

So, I bought a 95 SL500, which seems pretty nice. But I've this problem with my driver's window (and I think it affects putting down the softtop). On the passenger side, if I open the door, the window automatically drops about 1/2 inch (and if I close the door, it automatically goes up the 1/2 inch). Unfortunately, this does not happen on the driver's side. Using the center console window buttons, I can put up/down both windows.

I should also mention that the rollbar dual switch blinks when the rollbar is down. Doesn't blink when it's up, only when its down. I tried the trick of putting the rollbar up and holding the switch for a few extra seconds, but that doesn't seem to make a difference in terms of the blinking.

I have the softtop on. So, if I try to put the top down, I flip and hold the top switch, and all kinds of good things happen: The rollbar goes down, the passenger window goes down, the softtop releases its lock, the softtop compartment, opens up ... and then the routine stops. I'm sure the next thing is for the front locks to release and the top to go down.

I suspect that it is my driver's window. It does not go down automatically when I try to lower the top.

Final notes: The previous owner did have a rodent problem! And my comparment behind the passenger seat is not nearly as neat and tidy as the pictures posted here.

Help. What do I check? Fairly handy guy, just not good with diagnostics.

Top Hydraulics

Wow, this is the thread with the tough problems. rgp717, welcome to the forum! I'm afraid I don't have very good advice. You have obviously tried synchronizing the driver side window by holding up the left window switch for several seconds, right?

The top will not release from the front if the soft top controller does not know the position of the driver side window. There is only one relay routing power to that window, and it is inside the soft top controller. If the window goes down with the window button, then the relay and the motor are okay. If the controller on a model year '95+ does not know where the windows are at, it will normally lower them more than 1/2" when you open the doors, as a default to protect the windows and the seals when you shut the doors. I would assume that the controller would still run down the windows for a certain amount of time even if there was no readout from the window motor Hall effect sensor. That's just a guess, but it makes me think there is likely a problem with the controller.

The roll bar lights blinking when the roll bar is down could be a bad lower limit switch (or wire chewed up), or a soft top controller malfunction. The top will not move before the controller knows that the roll bar is down. Problem is, the latter does not explain the window malfunction.

You could try two things before spending money on code reading:

1) Disconnect the (negative pole of the) battery over night. Not just for an hour, but for an extended period. I have had luck with malfunctioning controllers coming back to life after disconnecting the battery for a while, and then repeatedly disconnecting the battery for short times until the controller miraculously worked again. This will probably not work for you, but it's worth a try.

2) After you have disconnected the battery for an extended period and reconnected it afterwards, observe the driver side window. Does it come down any amount when you open the door? If so, then you have made progress...

If you knew someone with a model year '95 or younger, you could ask them to let you swap controllers briefly. I doubt that your system would do any harm to the other controller - you want to make sure to have the battery disconnected and to have the controller bolted down before you reconnect the battery (the bolt is electrical ground).

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

rgp717

Thank you Klaus for your reply.

I'll try the disconnect battery trick (I understand I should just pull the negative cable). And I'll check to be sure the controller is bolted down.

In the meantime, I'll start searching the forums for the rollbar sensor. Maybe I can at least get that fixed. The weather has gone cold again, so it may be a few days before I get back ... but I'll post my progress.

Bob

rgp717

OK, so it occurs to me that before we start diagnostics, we should all have a good idea of the damage due to rodent(s). Here are some pictures of the wiring compartment, behind the passenger seat. It's a mess. I guess the first thing is to figure out all the modules/pieces and then find a wiring diagram.

So, here are my pictures (one shows the control module directly wired to the battery (I think).

Top Hydraulics

Ouch!!!

Can you find out from the previous owner what they did there, and what all those relays are for? Maybe they can give you some history of RST (roadster soft top) controller trouble on the car?

rgp717

Oh hell. What are we saying here ... the modules don't belong? Ah crap. I thought there were just out of place. So, I guess the place to start is to figure out the modules and wiring.

Again, any references to wiring diagrams for the 95 SL500?

rorf

Could possible be a module to open and close the soft top with a remote button - looks to be a rather Heath Robinson affair

rgp717

Looking at those 4 modules: So, I put my driver's side window all the way down. If I press the Window switch to lower the driver side window, one of the modules makes a clicking sound. So, I took it apart: With it apart, I can raise the driver's side window, but I can't lower it (press Up, it goes UP, press Down, nothing; press Up, and it goes up some more).

Put it back together and the window "works" -- still doesn't do the automatic 1/2" lowering on opening the door. It is an Omron KC29 relay? Here are some pics. Any ideas?

Top Hydraulics

Sounds like an uphill battle. My guess is that the PO had trouble with the driver side window operation and fashioned a way to have the relays make the driver side window go up and down by manipulating the relays with the driver side console switch. If the soft top controller did not manage to move the driver side window before, then it is probably in bad shape and not able to move the soft top for you. Hope I'm wrong.

Again, try to find out more from the PO, and you may be able to save a lot of time.

The window motors have only two wires for supply voltage going to them, plus the wires for the Hall sensors that count the motor's revolutions. To run the window up, you supply voltage to the motor in one direction. To run the window down, you reverse the voltage. This can indeed be done with four four-pin relays controlled from the console switch. There is also a way to do it with two five-pin relays, but that's another story.

rgp717, you have to take it from here. All wires are color coded, so you can put things back together the way they were. Chances are, the driver window won't work in the OEM setup on account of the controller being faulty. I don't see why else there is such a crazy setup with four relays. You could try to have the controller rebuilt (or buy a used one matching your model year) and put the wiring back to the OEM configuration.

Good luck!

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

rgp717

Thank you Klaus.

So far, your analysis has been correct. PO had issues with driver window (and mouse). So, yesterday was a beautiful day, and what better to do than work on a car? So I removed and exposed the back area, door panel and the center console.

All those modules are specifically tailored to making the window go up and down. I reconnected the old wiring, and the window doesn't work at all. But before I start that work, I found plenty of cut wires ... I'm hoping they are just speaker wires (1 pic at console, 1 pic behind driver door), as the PO replaced the radio.

I'm desparate for a wiring diagram; Bought a DVD off of eBay (pure crap -- do not buy, horrible interface, burdensome software, and useless info).

Here's some pics mostly for entertainment, except the cut wires: Anyone know what that is about?

rgp717

Just a quick note: Window still doesn't work, but now that I reconnected the original wires, my Rollbar button stopped blinking.

Anyone got a wiring diagram? How many wires should be going to the driver window switch? There are 5 going to the passenger side window switch but only 4 going to the driver side window switch?

rgp717

2 more observations:
1. I removed all the relays and crap, and I think I have all the wires back to where they belong. Rats, my rollbar switch is back to blinking (still works, just blinks in down position) and the driver window does not work.
2. On my driver's window switch, is it true the brown wire is the ground? I think it is bad; if I ground it out to a grounding pin, then I get power at the switch. Do I need to chase the brown wire back to the controller? or can I just ground it anywhere?

I really feel like I'm making progress.

Top Hydraulics

I'm glad you are making progress. As a common courtesy, would you please keep the language clean in a thread that will be read by thousands?

Brown is ground. The controller grounds directly to the chassis, which is why it is important to keep it bolted down when it is connected. I don't recall if the window switches are resistive (different resistance for up vs down switching, as opposed to open/closed).

Good luck.

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

JarvisAutosport

Hey all. This seems to be the right place for help. I have a 1997 SL500 with a convertable top problem. Everything seems to work correctly putting the top down, and latching/unlatching the hardtop. Th eproblem comes when trying to pu the convertable top up, it will fail to lock into the front latches. Here is where it gets really odd. Inside the storage compartment for the top, there is a white pressure switch, I assume this is to tell the controller that the top is stored away. If while holding the top control switch forward, I then press that large white switch in the storage compartment quickly (just a tap will suffice) it then will ock the front latches and complete the sequence as normal. Again, putting th etop back down is not a problem. Can you tell me the purpose of the switch in the storage compartment, and give me an idea what may be going on here? Thanks in advance.

Top Hydraulics

Welcome to the forum. This has indeed become the thread of unusual soft top questions for die-hard DIYers. It is interesting that you found the combination of pushing the convertible top button on the console forward (with the top up) and pushing the white switch assembly in the storage compartment. Basically, you are simulating to the controller that the hard top is being put on while you do that (the controller does not check for signals from the tonneau cover at that point).

The whole story would suggest a problem with the magnetic sensor above the windshield in your '97, which detects the soft top being near the front locks (in model years '95-'02 only). By chance, has work been done to your front locks, or has your soft top been replaced?

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

JarvisAutosport

Wow you are really on it! I love the quick response!
No work has been done to the front locks or th ewcover itself. When I got this project the car was leaking fluid from the battery area. I replaced the hydraulic cylinder in the right rear for the lock there, and then found a leak in the one that locks the vinyl cover for when the top is stored away. I wish I would have known about you before I shelled out $230 each (my cost as a shop) for the cylinders from the dealer. As far as I know there has never been any other work done besides those 2 cylinders. Another interesting note is that the one for the cover has a superseded part with a larger bore and bigger piston, so I had to drill and tap the latch mechinism to accomodate it else buy a whole new latch. What I do know is that the car had the hard top on it for years and the owner never used the convertable top. Sorry I can't be of more help, I just don't have a clear history on the car besides what I have done. Eagerly awaiting another quick response so i can figure this darn thing out.

JarvisAutosport

Ok, I got it. I was following up on the advice about the magnetic sensor above the windshield, and I looked at the top itself first. I saw the small plastic panel that I assumed would house the magnet. I took it out and behold, no magnet! One of the clips had broken and the magnet had pulled itself up into the frame! I took it out and glued it into the plastic cover with some epoxy. It still isnt working with it in, but I can lay the magnet flat on the panel above the windshield and it works. It just seems to not be strong enough or not in range when it is installed in the top. I found out there is an elongated screw on the sensor that allows some adjustment so that is where I am headed next.
Just wanted to say thank you so much for the advice, it sent me exactly where I needed to go. I'd like to repay you somehow, and I have these 2 cylinder cores here. Would you like me to ship them to you?
You sir, are a god among men.

Top Hydraulics

You replaced the rear lock cylinder 1298002172 and the tonneau lock cylinder 1298000072. You got lucky that you had to replace only the cheap cylinders so far. Main lifts 1298000272 and bow extensions 1298001772 or 1248000272 are close to $1000/ea, even for dealers.

Indeed, Mercedes will only sell p/n 1298002172 if you want to buy a replacement for 1298000072, and then you have to tap a larger hole into the tonneau cover latch. Crazy. There is no justification from a technical standpoint for that, just policy. As you said, you can avoid tapping a larger thread into your lock tonneau cover lock 1298001674 if you buy a whole new lock assembly for a lot more money. Note that even brand new tonneau locks are being shipped with 1298000072s in them, and connect the dots. Top Hydraulics offers rebuild service or core exchange for all Mercedes convertible cylinders, making them truly better than brand new ones. We replace and upgrade all seals, which includes the important port seal (where the line go in) and piston seals. For example, if you have remnants of Stop-Leak additives in your hydraulic system, then the brand new Mercedes cylinders will fail again after 1-2 years. Conversely, Top Hydraulics' advanced seals hold up well to such additives.

It is hard to give a remote diagnosis on a car for which you have no repair history.

Since one of the rear lock cylinders and the tonneau cover lock cylinder were leaking, it is almost certain that the front lock cylinders 1298001672 have been replaced already. The front lock cylinders usually fail first, and as soon as you see a leak in any of the nine or ten rear cylinders (as you did), ALL cylinders with original seals are ready to fail.

For the odd latching behavior in the front, take the trim panel off the windshield header (carefully, without pulling on the wires for the magnetic sensor in the middle) - follow these instructions: http://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/R129...%20Removal.pdf.

Then check if the wires on the magnetic sensor may be shorting to ground anywhere. If that's not it, consider taking the car to an indie or a dealer and have codes read.

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

rgp717

Klaus, I rechecked my language ... pretty high standards, but it's your forum and I' happy to abide.

So, I grounded out the driver switch. Now if I put a voltmeter on the following wire combinations, I get 12V (but the window still doesn't budge):
brown & black/white
brown & green/white
blue/grey & black/white
blue/grey & green/white

Those wires just don't look of sufficient guage to supply voltage to the window motor. What is the sequence of events? I'm guessing something like this:
Press window button
window button sends signal to controller
Controller sends power to window motor

What's next?

rgp717

Beautiful day in Columbus Oh. So, I spent it checking wire continuity, etc. I've come to one of two possibilities:
1) The controller is bad. Is there a way to check it/have it checked?
2) Is it possible the driver's window motor is drawing too much power. The PO setup had a 35 amp fuse in there. When I try to work the window, it immediately blows the #1 fuse in the trunk. Anyway to check the window motor?

Jamrue

I'm having issues with soft top on 97 SL320. Top does not go down. When I push the control button backward, red light stays on until windows get about half way down and continues to blink. Windows go down but at the point in the cycle when the top mechanism should begin its routine, nothing but silence.

I had top replaced recently and replaced battery when I got the car home but did not attempt to lower top until recently. I unhooked negative battery lead, let it set for 24 hrs, then followed procedure to synchronize windows but still no response with top except for windows lowering.

Anyone have other suggestions?

rgp717

Fabulous weekend of weather and real progress. Not sure if anyone cares, but here it is: Using a multimeter, I verified all wire integrity, from the switch to the controller (small green/white, small black/white, small blue/grey), verified large current carrying wire integrity (large green/white and large black/white wires).

And a dozen fuses later, I have figured out that the "down" of the window works just fine; it lowers the window. The "up" causes an immediate blown fuse.

Motor works fine in both directions; put a battery on it and flipped the positive/negative back and forth to get the window to go up and down.

So, I guess it comes down to the controller. Anything I can do to check/fix/text the controller? I hate to shell out $$$ for what appears to be a bum relay in the controller.

I really think the breakthrough was finding the bad ground on the switch. that allowed all other testing. Again, using the multimeter, I have concluded that the black/white wires are the DOWN, and the green/white wires are the UP.