Thericker

Sorry, just noticed it

Thericker

Some people have to learn things the hard way.. Funny he notes he'd rather trust/use his untested "Theories" Vs my hard earned "Facts" That was obviously, already his chosen path, so why ask my opinion that he says he values? I previously noted the same info when he 1st asked me 1-2 pages ago Well I tried

When I 1st tested the singe tube intake nearly identical to his, I was in love w/the NEW louder BOV/Diverter valve noises, & the streamlined looks.. It took me 2-3 months to finally be honest w/myself & admit the intakes were a big failure, I was/am merely trying to spare him the same outcome. When he tries to hammer it from a dead stop & the car falls flat on its face, in the hotter summer temps coming he will change his tune

NEMES1S

I would be interested in seeing someone get an air temp reading inside the pipe just before the turbo of a silicone setup and a pipe set up. I agree that insulating is a good idea but I would be nervous the silicone would deform under high boost. I am also thinking about most fully built racecars and there are a ton of metal intake pipes that source air from outside of the engine bay but they also don't use as many crazy sensors. When I was running scorpions, they were pretty sluggish off the line because of the hot under engine air but I would have to think the additional air flow helped somewhere. I should have done dyno pulls with both setups

Ekselent, I was going to ask if you did anything with the little sensor that everyone likes to just zip tie somewhere under the hood.

F1BHP

I am going with 4 x 3" aluminum intakes with Teflon coating. 2 from the stock location and 2 from the fog light area. Not sure how it will work but I think the theory is good. I will wait and see.

BlownV8

You want as short an intake as you possibly can. Stick with one pipe. Two will cause unneeded turbulence.

F1BHP

I think the sheer volume of cold air that will be available should overcome the piping issues.

I like to learn the hard way also.

I have not seen this setup tested so I will give it a go.

The good thing about intakes is that they can always be changed if they don't work out.

BlownV8

Anything should be an improvement over the HAI you have on the car now.

F1BHP

Ok, so the 4 pipes did not work as they still had problems to get to the fog light area.

I cannot cut and widen the current space as the crash sensor is in that area on my car.

So I am having a custom radiator built with space left open to bring a much larger pipe to the front grille. Trying for a 5"-6" opening to the front and create more of a ram air setup with a filter that will allow air from the front facing end.

Ekselent

Hello Members...
I'm back...
I saw lot of Ranges Rovers in Spain, much more than X5 / X6...
Last night I have install the cold air intake at the car.
Tomorrow front pumper and so on

Even though it is in my car and the kit made by me I must tell it's looks really, really good!
The pipe solution, clambs, reducers filters looks like Mercedes have made them.
I call my friend today and told him to look at my engine room. I ask him "can you see something I have made and install "here"... No no... I asked to look closer. Still he couldn't see what I have done. Then I show him which my finger which parts is my parts. He don't believe it....

Tomorrow I can take few pictures and I hope I have time also to explain why this pipe setup is better than silicons tubes.... I'm sure I have right..

F1BHP is on the same line as I do but I want to tell you in more theoretically details.
After that everyone gets to determine itself what is the best solution ... aluminum pipe or Silicon tube with joiners.
The purpose is not to start a fight but to give a different perspective about this cold air intake.

Juha

Ekselent

Few pictures.

F1BHP

Love it, looks very clean. Do you think that it will block a lot of air to the radiator?

I am going to try to bring my filters straight out so as not to curve in front of the radiator.

Ekselent

Thank you...
I'm not 100% sure about that but my opinion it's gone work fine.
The air is gone flow through the filters and if it block the fan is gone start to cool it down. Therefore the fan is there.
If you have think narrow the radiator you must narrow the another radiators also.
Today, have not had time to install the pumper maybe tomorrow....

Ekselent

Al parts is on now..... Start the engine and after 1/2 min its shut down again the right cylinder bank... Al 6 cylinders in same time.
Have change the ignition module and it dosn't help. Every time I took of the minus cable of the trunk battery the engine start with al 12 cylinders but after a while its shut down right cylinder bank. I had this problem before I install the cold air intake... : (.
I read the fault codes with the Star and got following fault codes:
P2050
P2051
P2052
P2053
P2054
P2055
P2056
Any ideas? For me its impossible to understand that al 6 coils broke at the same time...

F1BHP

Have you ever changed the coils? The original coil packs fail all the time once the car is tuned and the after market ones now give a lifetime warranty, so best to change both sides now and be done with it.

It is only 2 coil packs one each side which is why you are getteing the multiple failures.

Ekselent

Thats explain a lot..... I thought every cylinder have own coils.

Yes... I think I must do that. I have found the new OEM part numbers.
Old ones have last three numbers
- 480 ( Right )
- 580 ( Left )

New ones
- 680 ( Right )
- 780 ( Left )

I have look at ebay and there I can find used new model half of the price.
Where can I find after markets?

Thank you.

Juha

Ekselent

Hello my friends.

So here is a short opinion why I decide to use 3” aluminum pipe at the kit.

* First of all 3” outside dia was the max restriction of the pipe.
* V12 Bi-turbo engine with turbo pressure 1,4 bar required flow of 1260 cfm / min at 5500 rpm. Its’ a lot of air!

1. At the picture you can see aluminum pipe vs Silocon tube.
- Aluminum pipe outside dia 3” inside 2,875”. Wall thickness 0,0625 ”

- Silicon tube ( At the picture it's not a 3” tube because I don’t have it but you can see what I mean).
Outside dia 3” inside 2,75”. Wall thickness 0,125 ”

Because I don’t need to use joiners with the aluminum pipe the pipe hole is 2,875” al the way to the turbo inlet.
If I use 3” Silicon tube I need at least 2 joiners/ inlet (maybe 3). The joiners inside dia is about (wall thickness 0,0625”+0,0625” = 0,125”). 2,75”-0,125” = 2,625”.
Joiners further reduced the Silicon tube inner dia to 2,625”.
It’s about 10% smaller than Aluminum pipe and the joiners made turbulence at two (or 3) places in the Silicon tube.

- Aluminum thermal conductivity is about : 204 Watt ( m.K)
- Silicon (rubber) thermal conductivity is about : 0,24 Watt ( m.K). Because the silicon tube wall thickness is about 1/2 thicker than aluminum it’s insulate very well vs Aluminum pipe + the thermal conductivity is about 100 time "better".

BUT

However, at some point the engine room heat achieve nearly same temperature inside the silicone tube and that happen at the aluminum pipe also BUT the cold air ”cool down” the aluminum pipe more than 200 times faster vs Silicon tube because the wall thickness + thermal conductivity.

- the Silicon tube joiners made turbulence . (Aluminum pipe made not nearly
none turbulence).

- 10% smaller inlet dia. Because the engine need so much air (1260 cfm) and 10% difference in inlet hole + the turbulences made air flow restriction together much more than 10% vs aluminum pipe.

- When the cold air flow better/faster it have less time to warm up and therefore, I do not even want to believe that the temperature of the air build up a lot of the tube ….
different thing is if the air nearly stops to flow,restriction + turbulence. Therefore aluminum pipe is also better.

- The look it’s not as good as aluminum pipe.

So this follow things make me to do the cold air intake at aluminum.

PS. As you can see at the picture the different of wall thickness is much more than half but I use the half at the calculations..

BlownV8

Yes, aluminum does transfer heat quickly but where do you thi k that heat is going. The pipe is acting as a heat exchanger from the super hot engine bay heat right into your intake tract. At least wrap it in silicone or header wrap to insulate. In the aviation world there is jacketed silicon tubing you can use as a great insulator. Would work wonders for you.

Ekselent

Thank you...

Hmm...
I wonder why you think is gone happen this way.
Yes of course the heat is going first at the inlet of the turbo at both case but when pipe and silicon tube have achieve same temperature which one of this is cooling down 200 times faster... the pipe for sure.
You forget that at both cases at some point pipe and tube achieving the engine room temperature. Pipe faster but is also cool down 200 times faster.
The airflow is inside the pipe or tube not outside. So when the air start to flow then at the same time is start to cool down the pipe / tube wall FIRST from inside to outside ( engine room). Same time is cool down engine room temperature also.
If I insulated the pipe as many of you recommend to do I insulated the pipe so it's can't cool down faster.

You can put your hand on the intercoolers also even the engine room is hot! If the cooler is made from "Silocon" is gone be HOTTER inside the cooler and outside the cooler and you can't put the hand on it.
You must think where the flow is.. is not at the engine room is at the inside of the pipe.

I'm gone measure this at two points when I have more time to do it.
One front of the radiator and one before the turbo inlet and I'm pretty sure the difference is not big because it's flow so much air (1260 cfm) and FAST inside the pipe.

Juha

Hope additional ones are welcome to their opinions to. I'm not tell that I'm 100% sure about this but but

Ekselent

Yesterday I ordered both side of coil packs... 2700 Eur.. : (.
Im also gone change the spark plugs.
But after this I dont need to be worry its gone happen again in near future : )

BlownV8

it is cooling down because the cold air coming in is cooling the pipe. That cold air is being turned I to hot air due the super heated pipe. What you have created is a heat exchanger but in the opposite way you need. Now, if the pipe were insulated it would not get hot. Hot moves to cold and not the other way around. The pipe is not getting cooler from the engine bay so that heat is going into your intact tract. Get it?

NEMES1S

I think someone needs to just get a few cheap temp sensors and run it with the different set ups

BlownV8

Use this. It will really help you.
http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/au...maflect-sleeve

Thericker

Ok I'll try 1 last time maybe this will help you better understand just how bad your SS intake is vs a 90% Silicone setup (other 10% SS joiners) Simple test anyone can do w/only your hand after 10-20 min driving time, get out pop hood & please try & place your entire hand on your setup esp towards the back where most heat accumulates IE by the engine heads & your actual turbo inlets, try & place any part of your hand on that section of piping guarantee if you left your hand there for more than a few sec you will be @ the ER Burn unit @ local hospital shortly after. VS try touching ANY silicone part on your engine bay? Or if like me you've tested several intakes & have a Silicone setup, you could actually rest your cheek on it not kidding... Silicone does NOT conduct heat anywhere close to a pure SS setup..

Take a guess on which Biturbo CAI setup will be ingesting cooler air temps???
Though you'll prolly continue to deny such fact & just regurgitate worthless quotes on how you believe it works scientifically..

And why not try ACTUAL back to back dyno testing like I have done?? You'll see your SS HAI is heatsoaked & robbing gobs of hp/tq in 10-20 min of Dyno time, & after a half hour your car will not even be able to break the tires loose from a stand still let alone 50mph rolling burnouts I could do w/Silicone intake w/superior 5" diameter piping.. PS why do you think NOT 1 of the major auto manufacturers uses your approach in making their CAI systems??? Ummm because SS metal intakes are giant power robbing heatsinks period.. They use PVC Plastics/Rubber & Silicone in OEM CAI setups..

Ekselent

Thank you all....
I must measure it.... then I know for sure.
Without insulate and with insulated pipe... at two points.
That insulate idea is interesting
http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/au...maflect-sleeve

Ekselent

Sebastian..
I saw your setup.... and I wonder if I saw right.
It seems that you don't use any air filter?