SL/R230: SL600 Cold air intake project
08-30-2015, 05:23 AM
#301
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Thread Starter
You said in earlier post that I do not have anywhere near 585 whp and so on...
and NOW you count it yourself for me...
. Thank you...
Thank You
Remember this.....Some peoples don't learn anything....
:
:ladysman :The new winner is..... Juha from "wonderland".
:
Last edited by Ekselent; 08-30-2015 at 05:56 AM.
08-30-2015, 12:49 PM
#302
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V12-Biturbo
Guy ... What exactly is your major malfunction?? Your posts just continue to confirm how off balance you are.. I believe English being your 2nd or whatever tortured language is FAR from your only problem in life.. From your 1st wacky dyno, I said this on Page 10 of this pathetic eye/ear bleeding BLOG/EXCUSE of a Thread.. Go back to Page 10 & read it..
I never contested your 535-533kw = 585 whp, it's no record for your mods, far from it, I ONLY contested you making a legit 900-930 wtq
Post the rest of your Dyno instead of trying to make us believe what you want to by simply regurgitating what you SAY it says???
Everybody in the know realizes DynoDynamics reads/shows the rwtq Plot as well as rwhp so what's the big deal?
World Record tq*Your dyno is literally more screwed up than your claims etc.. What you're seeing is called a torque "Spike" & you made a lol 585hp???? W/all your mods??? Barely 20 hp more than I did on ECU ONLY w/91 octane, bet you had 98-100+ You are so lost it boggles the mind you don't drown while showering/bathing.. Keep on breaking world records prof*Can't wait for that basement 11.00 1/4 mile remember???
Post the rest of your Dyno instead of trying to make us believe what you want to by simply regurgitating what you SAY it says???Everybody in the know realizes DynoDynamics reads/shows the rwtq Plot as well as rwhp so what's the big deal?
Last edited by Thericker; 08-30-2015 at 12:57 PM.
08-30-2015, 01:10 PM
#303
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V12-Biturbo
The Tuner measure it this way and print it out this way....
For me, this is pretty much goes like this.
He also calculate 1 Kw is 1,36 hp. We use this factors here.
I now what I have now and that is enough for me and I'm happy....
More than happy....
Low read dyno..... Its run also to lean....so there is still little power available...
For me, this is pretty much goes like this.
He also calculate 1 Kw is 1,36 hp. We use this factors here.
I now what I have now and that is enough for me and I'm happy....
More than happy....
Low read dyno..... Its run also to lean....so there is still little power available...
Why are you only posting a mere 1/4 or so of the Dyno sheet pic? You even made a video, but refused to show a close up of the computer screen showing the Dyno run?? Who does that??? Hmmm guys who don't like some? or all of the Dyno graph
Do you remember this claim after this new DynoDynamics run?
Dyno Dynamics
Hello members.: ;
I have been at a Dyno Dynamics dyno with my car.. : )
- gear box is not slipping. : )
- engine power 533,7 Kw . 725 hp at about 5200 rpm
- torgue 1170 Nm*
As I have mention several times earlier the power is there!!!!! : ).
And it was.... : ).
Hello members.: ;
I have been at a Dyno Dynamics dyno with my car.. : )
- gear box is not slipping. : )
- engine power 533,7 Kw . 725 hp at about 5200 rpm
- torgue 1170 Nm*
As I have mention several times earlier the power is there!!!!! : ).
And it was.... : ).
08-30-2015, 01:17 PM
#304
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Thread Starter
DynoDynamics show rwtq Plots too... Why are you only posting a mere 1/4 or so of the Dyno sheet pic? You even made a video, but refused to show a close up of the computer screen showing the Dyno run?? Who does that??? Hmmm guys who don't like some? or all of the Dyno graph Do you remember this claim after this new DynoDynamics run?
We already know you think your sl's the record tq holder in Wonderland, how bout in MBworld reality? Where's the graph showing this NEW 1170 Nm
Why are you only posting a mere 1/4 or so of the Dyno sheet pic? You even made a video, but refused to show a close up of the computer screen showing the Dyno run?? Who does that??? Hmmm guys who don't like some? or all of the Dyno graph Do you remember this claim after this new DynoDynamics run?We already know you think your sl's the record tq holder in Wonderland, how bout in MBworld reality? Where's the graph showing this NEW 1170 Nm
What is your best 1/4 mile time and speed?
We want to look at them to be sure you have those hp and torque at your car?
And the true power at 1/4 mile.....: )
08-30-2015, 06:13 PM
#305
Super Member
Thread Starter
Guy ... What exactly is your major malfunction?? Your posts just continue to confirm how off balance you are.. I believe English being your 2nd or whatever tortured language is FAR from your only problem in life.. From your 1st wacky dyno, I said this on Page 10 of this pathetic eye/ear bleeding BLOG/EXCUSE of a Thread.. Go back to Page 10 & read it..
I never contested your 535-533kw = 585 whp, it's no record for your mods, far from it, I ONLY contested you making a legit 900-930 wtq Post the rest of your Dyno instead of trying to make us believe what you want to by simply regurgitating what you SAY it says???
Everybody in the know realizes DynoDynamics reads/shows the rwtq Plot as well as rwhp so what's the big deal?
I never contested your 535-533kw = 585 whp, it's no record for your mods, far from it, I ONLY contested you making a legit 900-930 wtq
Post the rest of your Dyno instead of trying to make us believe what you want to by simply regurgitating what you SAY it says???Everybody in the know realizes DynoDynamics reads/shows the rwtq Plot as well as rwhp so what's the big deal?
You said following.... Page 10.
You're flat out dreaming you actually made anything close to 900 wtq 585 whp shows this is indeed a Torque Spike + as BlownV8, mentioned your graph doesn't add up as it should cross @ 5252 rpm's etc etc w/your mods you will be lucky to see 700 wtq.. But what do I know Hmm you ran 12.67 @ 117 mph yeah you def DON'T HAVE anything close to 900 wtq.. HP is just a calculation of TQ/power & you def aren't making any new
Last edited by Ekselent; 08-30-2015 at 06:16 PM.
08-30-2015, 07:52 PM
#306
The dyno is reading whp and the tuner/customer are doing a guessestimate calculation of what the crank hp is. Also e85 won't gain you power, it's just doesn't generate knock allowing safer power. So to swap to that you'll have to retune. I'd invest in a killer chiller setup before going ethanol. I'd be curious to know what the tuner had the load setting to on the rollers. Lots of guys gas up there numbers on the dyno having the load rating set to 2000lbs, which in our cars is unrealistic to hope that we could ever get the car that lite, causing the power readout to be high.
08-31-2015, 02:27 AM
#307
Super Member
Thread Starter
The dyno is reading whp and the tuner/customer are doing a guessestimate calculation of what the crank hp is. Also e85 won't gain you power, it's just doesn't generate knock allowing safer power. So to swap to that you'll have to retune. I'd invest in a killer chiller setup before going ethanol. I'd be curious to know what the tuner had the load setting to on the rollers. Lots of guys gas up there numbers on the dyno having the load rating set to 2000lbs, which in our cars is unrealistic to hope that we could ever get the car that lite, causing the power readout to be high.
He dont calculat anything. Its show directly at the display the crank power. ( you can see it at the chart I have show you already... 533.7 Kw)
Only thing he calculate was the hp.... 1 Kw is 1,36 hp. Nothing else.
I can ask what the load rating set was.
Members .... I cant understand why you cant accept my power range.
I have run in two different dynos 1258 Nm and 1170 Nm of torque. Last was it a low read dyno. No tricks here. I have show and have try explain everything but it seems some can accept this or want to do it.... So I wonder Why????
This is not fair play.... Other members show with letters what they have.I must bring everyone to the next dyno so they can stay behind my car and controll the whole run.... : ).
So only bad things.....
For example now..... Nobody have not ask why my engine run to lean ?
Nobody have said a singel word " Juha you have more power in the engine when you fix the A/F ratio to"
Everyone here know if its run to lean its not right and I have more power to get?
Nobody have not even try to calculate how much the Dynojet would show and we all now it would show higher numbers and most of you use Dynojet.....
Cant understand why some of us try all the time downplay my numbers.
Its there and thats it... You must accept this.
You must think more about what I should have when the A/F ratio is in right level....
And its going to show more and for you who want downplay my numbers, I think you must be more concerned about that and how you can sleep well...... May be pills would help.....
I think also the Killer Chiller would be a great uppgrade. At the moment I must look closer at my fuel problem... Ist the pump or injectors which are out or both of them.
For those which behave like Thericker do I must say a word of warning... Its destroy the whole community for sure!!!
If you don't have noticed it yet I must tell that I have....
***V12 Entusiast engine work.
This member start with headwork and so on..... because he want to do it... he have the time and money. .... what do you think happen??... some of you IDIOTS jump on him directly and so on..... ( I mention his engine work is gone be a masterpiece for sure ).
I'm pretty sure everything have been ready for a long time ago and I have wait for the results and I have hope he get (power range) what he want!
Still nothing but it does not have either if you do not want to specify anything while here, some will behave as behaving.
so all lost here!!!!!!! ME TO!!!
Its sad.
So for example what Thericker do its affect we all lose here!!!!!!
Therefore, none of us gets the knowledge to succeed it or not.....
that is, we do not develop any ....we diminish in same place in the same level Thericker is...
For me Thericker is a "midge" in my house and Im not afraid what he said and so on : ).....
We need to make progress and it only happens in such a way that all of us is not afraid
to say and encourage each other.... don't Jump on a forum member if he want to do something different!!!!
WE ALL LOSE and I'm pretty sure we already have losed many good ideas for sure......
So if somebody don't agree this he can jump in and tell that.....
I HOPE YOU ALL GET IT....
Last edited by Ekselent; 08-31-2015 at 03:44 PM.
08-31-2015, 11:21 AM
#309
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Thread Starter
08-31-2015, 02:08 PM
#311
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Thread Starter
08-31-2015, 05:03 PM
#312
Super Member
Thread Starter
Because when I had nothing to do I decide to calculate few things.
Yes yes yes... I now everyone can do this.... so this is for them who don't.
I now following fact.
- Every 100 hp need 0.13 USg/fuel at min
- So if I have 670 hp at the engine its need fuel following.
(670*0,13)/100=0,88 USg fuel at min.
- From this I can calculate the necessary minimum fuel pump size.
0,88 USg*60 min= 52,8 USg/ hour
- Injectors minimum size :0,88 USg / 12 cyl.=0,0733 USg / min
Because the injectors can't be open al the time we can think max open time is 90%.
(0,0733 USg/90%)*100= 0,0814 USg/min.
- Because Lamda must be 1. (Its mean 0,26 USg fuel need 3,9 USg air to burn).
ECU adjust it al the time vs Lambda sensor at the downpipes.
So in 1 min the engine need air for 670 hp .
670 hp*3,9 USg=3,432 USg. (or Lbs).
I'm not 100% sure If I have think it right...
So is't possible I have so much power at the engine?
I don't now how big our fuel pump is and I don't even now the injectors capacity?
Only thing I now many of you have change bigger injectors. Speedriven told me that I don't need to do it .... and some people tell I must do it.
So who now the SL600:
-Fuel pump capacity?
-Injectors capacity?
If one of these is too small than what I have calculate it means at full power my engine is going to lean.
Because I use metric system at my own calculations and now when I have calculate for you in USg may be I have made mistakes at the conversions..
Yes yes yes... I now everyone can do this
.... so this is for them who don't.I now following fact.
- Every 100 hp need 0.13 USg/fuel at min
- So if I have 670 hp at the engine its need fuel following.
(670*0,13)/100=0,88 USg fuel at min.
- From this I can calculate the necessary minimum fuel pump size.
0,88 USg*60 min= 52,8 USg/ hour
- Injectors minimum size :0,88 USg / 12 cyl.=0,0733 USg / min
Because the injectors can't be open al the time we can think max open time is 90%.
(0,0733 USg/90%)*100= 0,0814 USg/min.
- Because Lamda must be 1. (Its mean 0,26 USg fuel need 3,9 USg air to burn).
ECU adjust it al the time vs Lambda sensor at the downpipes.
So in 1 min the engine need air for 670 hp .
670 hp*3,9 USg=3,432 USg. (or Lbs).
I'm not 100% sure If I have think it right...
So is't possible I have so much power at the engine?
I don't now how big our fuel pump is and I don't even now the injectors capacity?
Only thing I now many of you have change bigger injectors. Speedriven told me that I don't need to do it .... and some people tell I must do it.
So who now the SL600:
-Fuel pump capacity?
-Injectors capacity?
If one of these is too small than what I have calculate it means at full power my engine is going to lean.
Because I use metric system at my own calculations and now when I have calculate for you in USg may be I have made mistakes at the conversions..
Ist the injectors or the fuel pump out at full boost or are they both out??.
***First the pump:
I have two different info about the pump.
One is from my dealer who told me SL600 use a Pierburg pump which flow
230L/h at 3,8 bar. (60 USg/h 14,5 PSI)
OEM.Partnumber : A0014708794
Pierburg number is : 750046500
-If it this pump I have at my car the pump produce fuel following vs hp.
230 L/h /60 min / 0,5L * 100 h p= 760 hp.
(60 USg/60 min / 0,13 USg * 100 hp = 760 hp).
So the pump max flow suffice to about 750-760 hp.
-The second info is that SL65 AMG pump is also a Pierburg but bigger than the SL600.
OEM.Partnumber : A0014706594.
Pierburg number is : 700228510.
Its pump about 320 L/h. at 5 bar /13,5V. (84 USg / 72,5 Psi)
320 L/h/60 min / 0,5L * 100 hp = 1060 hp
(84 USg/60 min / 0,13 USg * 100 hp = 1060 hp
So the max flow suffice to about 1000-1060 hp
So If I have about 700-730 hp at the engine it is on the borderline that the SL600 OEM will be enough.
Everyone have mention I must change also the bigger injectors ( SL65 AMG ) thank you for that and Im pretty sure the problem is there.
Now I believe it and Im gone change them.*** Second the Injectors.
I have no info yet about SL600 OEM injectors or SL65 AMG injectors how much they flow but maybe tomorrow.
I want to calculate this also to be sure.... When I now SL600 injectors flow capacity and if it show after the calculating its to small then its strengthen the A/F ratio curve and power curve which also shows the same that they are to small because my engine run at full boost to lean.
Is also strengthen that when I change to the bigger injectors I also get more power... everything what the engine can produce with the boosted air flow the engine get now.
Juha
Last edited by Ekselent; 09-01-2015 at 03:26 PM.
09-01-2015, 05:39 AM
#314
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As i think; SL600 uses "External" fuel pump, while fuel pump in SL65 "In tank",,
but why MB switched injectors from SL600 "Siemens/Deka" to "Bosch" in SL65..??
ZAYED,,
but why MB switched injectors from SL600 "Siemens/Deka" to "Bosch" in SL65..??
ZAYED,,
09-01-2015, 05:50 AM
#315
Super Member
Thread Starter
You are right the pump is in the tank.
I found the SL65 AMG Pump specs.
SL600 pump specs.....haven't find anything yet.
Look at page 6/8 and the pump number 1 and curve 1. The curve show about 320L/84USg at 5 bar / 13,5Volt.
Last edited by Ekselent; 09-01-2015 at 06:36 AM.
09-01-2015, 03:27 PM
#317
Super Member
Thread Starter
Today I have start to find out my fuel problem...
Ist the injectors or the fuel pump out at full boost or are they both out??.
***First the pump:
I have two different info about the pump.
One is from my dealer who told me SL600 use a Pierburg pump which flow
230L/h at 3,8 bar. (60 USg/h 14,5 PSI)
OEM.Partnumber : A0014708794
Pierburg number is : 750046500
-If it this pump I have at my car the pump produce fuel following vs hp.
230 L/h /60 min / 0,5L * 100 h p= 760 hp.
(60 USg/60 min / 0,13 USg * 100 hp = 760 hp).
So the pump max flow suffice to about 750-760 hp.
-The second info is that SL65 AMG pump is also a Pierburg but bigger than the SL600.
OEM.Partnumber : A0014706594.
Pierburg number is : 700228510.
Its pump about 320 L/h. at 5 bar /13,5V. (84 USg / 72,5 Psi)
320 L/h/60 min / 0,5L * 100 hp = 1060 hp
(84 USg/60 min / 0,13 USg * 100 hp = 1060 hp
So the max flow suffice to about 1000-1060 hp
So If I have about 700-730 hp at the engine it is on the borderline that the SL600 OEM will be enough.
Everyone have mention I must change also the bigger injectors ( SL65 AMG ) thank you for that and Im pretty sure the problem is there. Now I believe it and Im gone change them.
*** Second the Injectors.
I have no info yet about SL600 OEM injectors or SL65 AMG injectors how much they flow but maybe tomorrow.
I want to calculate this also to be sure.... When I now SL600 injectors flow capacity and if it show after the calculating its to small then its strengthen the A/F ratio curve and power curve which also shows the same that they are to small because my engine run at full boost to lean.
Is also strengthen that when I change to the bigger injectors I also get more power... everything what the engine can produce with the boosted air flow the engine get now.
Juha
Ist the injectors or the fuel pump out at full boost or are they both out??.
***First the pump:
I have two different info about the pump.
One is from my dealer who told me SL600 use a Pierburg pump which flow
230L/h at 3,8 bar. (60 USg/h 14,5 PSI)
OEM.Partnumber : A0014708794
Pierburg number is : 750046500
-If it this pump I have at my car the pump produce fuel following vs hp.
230 L/h /60 min / 0,5L * 100 h p= 760 hp.
(60 USg/60 min / 0,13 USg * 100 hp = 760 hp).
So the pump max flow suffice to about 750-760 hp.
-The second info is that SL65 AMG pump is also a Pierburg but bigger than the SL600.
OEM.Partnumber : A0014706594.
Pierburg number is : 700228510.
Its pump about 320 L/h. at 5 bar /13,5V. (84 USg / 72,5 Psi)
320 L/h/60 min / 0,5L * 100 hp = 1060 hp
(84 USg/60 min / 0,13 USg * 100 hp = 1060 hp
So the max flow suffice to about 1000-1060 hp
So If I have about 700-730 hp at the engine it is on the borderline that the SL600 OEM will be enough.
Everyone have mention I must change also the bigger injectors ( SL65 AMG ) thank you for that and Im pretty sure the problem is there.
Now I believe it and Im gone change them.*** Second the Injectors.
I have no info yet about SL600 OEM injectors or SL65 AMG injectors how much they flow but maybe tomorrow.
I want to calculate this also to be sure.... When I now SL600 injectors flow capacity and if it show after the calculating its to small then its strengthen the A/F ratio curve and power curve which also shows the same that they are to small because my engine run at full boost to lean.
Is also strengthen that when I change to the bigger injectors I also get more power... everything what the engine can produce with the boosted air flow the engine get now.
Juha
- SL65 AMG injector produce 445 cc /min. at 3 bar. ( 0,94 cc/min / 43,5 Psi)
0,445 L/min * 12 (injectors) / 0,5 * 100 hp * ,85% = 900 hp.
0,94 USg/min * 12 (injectors) / 1,05 USg * 100 hp * ,85% = 900 hp.
So the max flow suffice to about 900 hp. The 85% means injector max opening time. ( this is how it reported from the manufacturer)
I have not still found any info about SL600 Siemens Deka injectors???
- SL600 injector produce ??? cc /min. at 3 bar. ( ??? cc/min / 43,5 Psi)
???? L/min * 12 (injectors) / 0,5 * 100 hp * ,85% = ??? hp.
???? USg/min * 12 (injectors) / 1,05 USg * 100 hp * ,85% = ??? hp.
So we are not so far away anymore.... : )
Juha
Last edited by Ekselent; 09-08-2015 at 05:27 PM.
09-01-2015, 04:23 PM
#319
Super Member
Thread Starter
I also thought to myself that it can go by pump flow specs...
same formula as 65AMG ...it sounds reasonable fair
I wait until tomorrow.... I have ask info from Siemens Deka again....
09-01-2015, 04:35 PM
#320
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Yeah, i think it's correct,,
SL600 "Siemens/Deka" are (377cc), while SL65 "Bosch" are (424cc), both are (72.5 psi) at (5) bar..!!
ZAYED,,
SL600 "Siemens/Deka" are (377cc), while SL65 "Bosch" are (424cc), both are (72.5 psi) at (5) bar..!!
ZAYED,,
09-01-2015, 04:43 PM
#321
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Thread Starter
Finland / Bosch dealer info was 445cc at 3 bar.... More bar more flow....
Are you 100% sure about those numbers?
As you now... my SL600 fuel pressure is 3,8 bar.
Last edited by Ekselent; 09-01-2015 at 04:46 PM.
09-01-2015, 06:12 PM
#322
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I took these info. from my friend Juha, he had 2008 SL600 about 4 years,
SL65 injector #: "0280 156 233"= 424cc,,
but honestly; not that accurately sure, can you ask your Bosch dealer, if Bosch injector # is correct or not..!!
ZAYED,,
SL65 injector #: "0280 156 233"= 424cc,,
but honestly; not that accurately sure, can you ask your Bosch dealer, if Bosch injector # is correct or not..!!
ZAYED,,
09-02-2015, 01:18 AM
#323
Super Member
Thread Starter
I have send an e.mail now to the Bosch dealer in Finland..... / "wonderland"
Are you sure about the SL600 injector ?
Juha
09-02-2015, 03:30 AM
#325
Super Member
Thread Starter
I got the answer....
That is a SL65 AMG injector. ( Bosch 0280156233 ).
That injector flow 443cc at 3 bar.
Its an old modell of injector, type EV6.(family) ( --->5.2006)
New modell (5.2006 --->) is type EV14 (family) which have same specs but it's much better. (more accurate and faster)
Here is the info about that injector.
http://www.finjector.com/verkkokaupp...61mm-p-2447-7/
Juha
