Ekselent

Bosch dealer told me Bosch injectors work better in small opening times and more linearly than Siemens Deka.

I asked because why change Manufactory ?.... I could pretty well ask for bigger Siemens Dekas but now when I know I'm gone choose Bosch.

I think Ebay is the cheapest place to buy??? Any Ideas...
Same number but EV14 type of injectors.

Ekselent

Hello Members....

Here is a data log video clip regarding my dyno run. You can follow:

-Boost
-Timing
-Intake temp
-Torque

The intake temp was surprisingly well remained stable throughout the run.
The video going step by step that can be better monitored.
Ambient temp was around 26 C / 78 F.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIF5...ature=youtu.be



Juha

cm60k

Very good info. Juha, didn't know that Bosch has wide opening times than Siemens /Deka, that may one of good reason that MB switch them to Bosch..!,

that dropping power is little bit strange!!,

do you know if ECU data/file reading properly during high ITA with -fuel range..?!?!

ZAYED,,

Ekselent

Hello.
I think it have something do with the emissions???


Honestly I dont now.... IAT vs fuel range
I remember only one thing. I was at top speed with my car and after a while the engine fault code flash up at the speedo and at the same time it shut down one half of the engine. Stopped the car and open the trunk, take of the battery - cable and put It bak after a while. Start the engine and all 12 cylinder run fine.
After that I took the car to Mercedes and they look with the star after fault codes. They found one fault code... The IAT was to high and therefore its cut of 6 cylinders so its dont damage the engine. I had lot of air in the IC systeem.

But as you now at my dyno run :
- boost was lineary and fine all the power range
- IAT was also great
- A/F ratio show to lean.... It was so lean so the tuner wonder if't even possible? At the dyno power curve you can see the power drop a little at the higher rpm and go up again at the last rpm range. I think another 10-15 hp is there at the top when the A/F ratio is adjusted fine....

F1BHP

So no misfire codes on star? It is unusual for it to cut the cylinders as it would just pull timing to deal with the IAT's, then go into limp mode after that but it doesn't drop the cylinders.

It sounds like coils to me, or ignition module. Have you changed either since you started modding?

Ekselent

Honestly I dont remember anything about misfire codes its one or two years ago... I had the tune and coolers and scorpions.
Now I have change :
- both coilpacks.
- al 24 sparkplugs
- Ignition module also ... It was not even broken but I change it also so I can drive with the car without ignigtion probleems in the near future...

Juha

cm60k

Assuming air/fuel ratio need to re-calibrate,

need to see the ECU/file, to make sure everything saved properly in the ECU/E-prom..!!

ZAYED,,

F1BHP

I thought you were saying that these problems were recent, you should be good if you have done all those items.

Ekselent

No not this time.... Now its only the A/F ratio and Im sure when I change bigger injectors the A/F ratio is going to be fine for sure.

Im gone look with the star if it have some info stored about the A/F ratio from my run...
Its strange because the IAT show fine ..... It would heated up the air in the engine if to much lean.....
The engine power dyno run curve show something hapen at the higher rpm??

BTW when are you going to update your thread? Any pictures about your intake setup?

Ekselent

Im gonna look at that with the star if it can show something?

NEMES1S

I would suggest checking fuel pressure all through the power band, could have a dying pump

Ekselent

Im gonna look at that with the star if it can show something?

Ekselent

Yes we also thought it first so we made a fourth run with fuel pressure meeter and a osciloscope to look if the injectors is full open at full boost.
So the pressure was 3,8 Bar but drop a little at higher rpm range... I think it drop a little because al injectors was full open and ECU try to do the best...or fuel began to lather.... The power curve drop a little in same rpm range so it must run to lean.

If you look at the osciloscope display (down ) you can se two line ends approaching each other and finaly take a contact at higher rpm range and its mean the injectors is full open. So the difference between both liene ends show the opening times.
So I think the pump is fine...

Sorry if I don't have show the video clip earlier when we measure it... But here its

F1BHP

I am still trying to get mine back on the road, I got the turbos back today for the third time and they should go in tomorrow. I will see what kind of shots Ivan get of the intake but it is difficult to see them.

BlownV8

What did you have done and why did it take three times?

Ekselent

Three times ?
I would have wanted to se the pipes before they installed them?
It would have been interesting to see how you have solve the fitting problems. What are the pipe size and so on?
When its the dyno day? Have you already dynoed the car with the first two turbo setups?

Ekselent

Today I tested my X6M first time at the mile.
I got 156,8 mph / 250,88 Km/h.
Ist a good speed or bad?

Juha

F1BHP

I have 4 x 3" CIA pipes.

The first set of turbos was an upgrade of the sl600 turbos which have a very unusual turbine wheel size, with two different sizes. The compressor wheel we used was very large and caused blowback issues while trying to be tuned. Two things may have been the problem. One the manifolds could not get the air out quick enough or. Two the size relationship between the compressor wheel and the turbine wheel may have caused issues.

The second time the sl65 turbo was used, we used a slightly smaller billet compressor wheel upgrade than the first time along with the sl65 has bigger evenly sized turbine wheels. We started to tune the car as Eurocharged USA has sent 2 guys over to do my tune. They had the car over 700BHP with A/F still peaking in the 11's at this point a squeak was starting to be heard so we had to stop. All the normal pulleys and belts were checked and the noise seemed to be coming from the drivers side turbo.

So now the turbos have been rebuilt again however when they were pulled apart they said they saw no evidence of any issues. So third time lucky. I hope the turbos were installed today and we will do the final dyno runs and tune on Monday.

Jerry from Eurocharged USA was very keen to keep going and said he thought close to 800BHP was within reach, we shall see. This dyno is also the lowest reading dyno around us so I will probably do a few different dyno pulls once the tune is finalized.

Ekselent

Okay thank you.
Sound very interesting and I hope you get what you want.

BlownV8

The problem you will find and you have already experienced is the exhaust manifolds won't flow the air out from the increased flow. You really need to increase the interior size of the manifolds or.fab entirely new manifolds.to see the benefits you want. From what I understand, 800 hp is the most you will possibly see from the stock manifolds.

Ekselent

Tomorrow we will see if he achieve the target.... we all hope so...
In my opinion 800 BHP or HP is a lot.

Juha

F1BHP

I do not think that it will get to 800hp, this was a comment made by the tuner however I will be very happy with 750hp.

As I have said before for me the goal was not peak hp as a different turbo setup would probably have been used. I want power that comes in early with little lag and will stay strong for a long track session, I have no interest in creating short term power.

If I can get 750hp with those perimeters I will be satisfied, anything more would be a bonus.

I do have the original turbo and manifold from the 600 which I may have a play around with to see if a solution to all our problems can be achieved however right now I just want the car back on the road.

Ekselent

Hello Members.

Today I have been contact with Marcin regarding the fuel pump.
Marcin told me Mercedes use two different pump pressures. 3,5 bar and 4,0 bar.
So my pump (3,8 bar) is week ( as Blown mention earlier) or the filter is dirty or my pump is 3,5 bar pump.
Im gonna look which pump is at my car.

Second thing.... When I change the bigger injectors I need also a new tune from Speedriven.
Im very happy because Speedriven respond fast....

Juha

Ekselent

No info from Siemens Deka.
So we try with same formula as we use at AMG 65.

Injector flow.
230L/60 min/12 cylinders=0,319 cc / min.

So the injector flow 0,319 cc / min.

- SL600 injector produce 0,319 cc /min. at 3 bar. ( 0,68 cc/min / 43,5 Psi)
0,319 L/min * 12 (injectors) / 0,5 * 100 hp * ,85% = 650 hp.
0,67 USg/min * 12 (injectors) / 1,05 USg * 100 hp * ,85% = 650 hp.

So the (STOCK) max flow suffice to about 650 hp. The 85% means injector max opening time. ( this is how it reported from the manufacturer).

Now when I have an Speedriven tune the opening time has also been changed for sure. How far I do not know.. Maybe to 90% to 95%???
If it so then we have following suffices
- 90% = 690 hp.
- 95% = 727 hp.

These calculations also strengthened my engine power... I now my engine run to lean and my calculations confirm this also. The injectors is not big enough.
These calculations are only indicative but I think over these values can not go. These is MAXIMUM values and in practice these values can not be achieved when there are so many variable factors, but the indicative yes.

I have done these calculations according to the hope that someone has learned something about these things and this is the way they do in practice,...

Juha

Ekselent

Hello Members.

Today I have ordered a new fuel filter.
- MANN (Manufacturer)
- WK 720/1.

Im gone change this first and measure the fuel pressure again.
If this does not help then Im gonna buy a new pump.
I need the 4 bar also.