SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: Sl600
02-23-2003, 07:29 AM
#2
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The German web-site says it will be available from sometime in the second quarter, so I guess you can assume it will only be available as a 2004 model in the US. It's likely to appear in Germany and the rest of Europe a full year after the SL55 came on stream.
As for differences, think of a SL500 with the V12 from the CL600/S600, same rated power/acceleration as the SL55 but more torque which will make for even more effortless in-gear acceleration. The car has some of the items as standard which are options on the SL500/SL55 but the detail will depend on the target market. Comparable weight and cost.
The are some things unique to the SL600, like the wheels, nasty ruffled leather on the door linings, some additional chrome detailing and V12 badges buried in the side vents replacing the V8 Kompressor badging. It does not have the AMG body kit as standard and the brakes are not cross-drilled.
A recent test in a UK magazine tested the SL600 and the writer was very impressed, apparently preferring it to the SL55. But then he is the sort of mid 50s man who wears his glasses with a cord around his neck. The car is clearly meant to be more of a super luxury GT than a sports car. The SL55 has a harder edge, the SL600 has a softened ride to avoid waking the blue-rinse brigade of Southern Florida. I'm growing old fast enough without having a car targeted for my age group and beyond to prove it.
Finally, every Mercedes V12 in the recent past has depreciated like a stone in free fall and there's no reason to believe the SL600 will be any different. Look for a secondhand previous generation '600 (S, CL, SL), figure the depreciation and ask yourself why it should be any different with the new cars. Used car buyers just do not want V12s which is fully reflected in the resale value.
As for differences, think of a SL500 with the V12 from the CL600/S600, same rated power/acceleration as the SL55 but more torque which will make for even more effortless in-gear acceleration. The car has some of the items as standard which are options on the SL500/SL55 but the detail will depend on the target market. Comparable weight and cost.
The are some things unique to the SL600, like the wheels, nasty ruffled leather on the door linings, some additional chrome detailing and V12 badges buried in the side vents replacing the V8 Kompressor badging. It does not have the AMG body kit as standard and the brakes are not cross-drilled.
A recent test in a UK magazine tested the SL600 and the writer was very impressed, apparently preferring it to the SL55. But then he is the sort of mid 50s man who wears his glasses with a cord around his neck. The car is clearly meant to be more of a super luxury GT than a sports car. The SL55 has a harder edge, the SL600 has a softened ride to avoid waking the blue-rinse brigade of Southern Florida. I'm growing old fast enough without having a car targeted for my age group and beyond to prove it.
Finally, every Mercedes V12 in the recent past has depreciated like a stone in free fall and there's no reason to believe the SL600 will be any different. Look for a secondhand previous generation '600 (S, CL, SL), figure the depreciation and ask yourself why it should be any different with the new cars. Used car buyers just do not want V12s which is fully reflected in the resale value.
02-23-2003, 08:32 AM
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I think someone has got the sour grapes?
BTW, if you do choose to go with the 600, then Renntech have got a package that will liberate this engine to the Maybach specs of 557HP and 900NM of Torque for a very small price.
The exhaust noise sounds very throaty, but not as loud as the SL55.
BlueSl, whats with all the convincing of people to avoid SL600 because of this and that and this?
Are you bored of your SL55 ?
Your posts replying to questions on SL600, always have the negativity of don't buy it, the SL55 is a safer bet. Its not blatantly obviously, it takes time to read the fine print, but the hate is there.
All I ask is why?
BTW, if you do choose to go with the 600, then Renntech have got a package that will liberate this engine to the Maybach specs of 557HP and 900NM of Torque for a very small price.
The exhaust noise sounds very throaty, but not as loud as the SL55.
BlueSl, whats with all the convincing of people to avoid SL600 because of this and that and this?
Are you bored of your SL55 ?
Your posts replying to questions on SL600, always have the negativity of don't buy it, the SL55 is a safer bet. Its not blatantly obviously, it takes time to read the fine print, but the hate is there.
All I ask is why?
02-23-2003, 09:36 AM
#4
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Certainly not bored with my SL55 and nor is it a case of sour grapes. The two cars are essentially the same price, same performance, built on the same line out of (mostly) the same bits but to me, the end results are rather different and the SL55 appeals more to me than the SL600 which is orientated to a market I don't relate to.
Autocar's Peter Robinson is a bit of an old woman and he can't even do his power-to-weight ratio sums correctly. I'll reserve final judgment until Car or Evo or, better yet, I have had the chance to try the car. My name is on the list for an SL600, it was always my intention to buy an SL500 first and then move on to the SL600, but actually, the SL55 is so good I'm not sure I'm interested.
There's 80 SL600s coming to the UK this year so it's going to be a rare beast. It will be interesting to see if it commands the same premium which the SL55 did. I'd be surprised. When I bought my 129 SL600 in 1996, there were just 75 in the country. And if you don't believe me about resale, ask any Ferrari 550/456, Aston DB7 V12 owner what their depreciation is like and I guarantee they will pull a face like a bull-dog chewing on a wasp.
Anyway Bilal, which SL do you drive?
Autocar's Peter Robinson is a bit of an old woman and he can't even do his power-to-weight ratio sums correctly. I'll reserve final judgment until Car or Evo or, better yet, I have had the chance to try the car. My name is on the list for an SL600, it was always my intention to buy an SL500 first and then move on to the SL600, but actually, the SL55 is so good I'm not sure I'm interested.
There's 80 SL600s coming to the UK this year so it's going to be a rare beast. It will be interesting to see if it commands the same premium which the SL55 did. I'd be surprised. When I bought my 129 SL600 in 1996, there were just 75 in the country. And if you don't believe me about resale, ask any Ferrari 550/456, Aston DB7 V12 owner what their depreciation is like and I guarantee they will pull a face like a bull-dog chewing on a wasp.
Anyway Bilal, which SL do you drive?
Last edited by blueSL; 02-23-2003 at 09:40 AM.
02-23-2003, 11:16 AM
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2005 SL600, 2011 Honda Odyssey Touring Elite
My guess is that the SL600 will have a DVD-based navigation system and the 6.5" LCD screen that has made its appearance in the 2003 S and CL Class when it hits the US.
02-23-2003, 11:26 AM
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Thanks, BlueSL, that was very informative.
I just got my SL55, and it seems to me that its exhaust note is very reminiscent of either a Pontiac Firebird or a Ford F250 truck. Since all three have big-bore V-8's, this shouldn't be surprising, but it wasn't what I expected. (And to my ear, it sounds cheap.) Hence my interest in the SL600.
To me the question of comparison beween the SL55 and the SL600 is one of weight. As you may recall, the previous SL600 was reputed to be fairly nose-heavy, and tended to plow thorugh corners. Does anyone know if the 12 cylinder engine will have the same effect on the new SL?
The year delay you estimated before the SL600 appears in the U.S. doesn't seem unreasonable, but it may scotch my thought of giving back the SL55 and waiting for an SL600. I know Carlsson makes an exhaust system for the SL500; does anyone know whether it will fit a SL55, or what it sounds like?
I just got my SL55, and it seems to me that its exhaust note is very reminiscent of either a Pontiac Firebird or a Ford F250 truck. Since all three have big-bore V-8's, this shouldn't be surprising, but it wasn't what I expected. (And to my ear, it sounds cheap.) Hence my interest in the SL600.
To me the question of comparison beween the SL55 and the SL600 is one of weight. As you may recall, the previous SL600 was reputed to be fairly nose-heavy, and tended to plow thorugh corners. Does anyone know if the 12 cylinder engine will have the same effect on the new SL?
The year delay you estimated before the SL600 appears in the U.S. doesn't seem unreasonable, but it may scotch my thought of giving back the SL55 and waiting for an SL600. I know Carlsson makes an exhaust system for the SL500; does anyone know whether it will fit a SL55, or what it sounds like?
Last edited by White Knight II; 02-23-2003 at 11:32 AM.
02-23-2003, 11:30 AM
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2006 SL55 with 030 Performance Package
I think the SL600 is going to be great for the customer that does not demand unique qualities that AMG brings to the table.
For me the choice is simple AMG always overtakes a non AMG, AMG cars have a special touch that is hard to explian, if you like a more performance oriented feel AMG is the only way!
I looked at the SL600 at the Detroit Auto show, Its a SL500 with a BI-Turbo V12 and some wheels, I am sure its great but its no AMG.
The SL600 will have a softer ride and normal exhuast and that is exactly what some customers want, MB does there homework they know there customers, As I said before the SL600 is going to be liquid smooth acceleration and soft ride, kind of cool combo, that is why it will sell too!
Now the SL65 AMG will be one hell of a car for the customer who demands A V12 and that special touch AMG adds.
It sounds to me like BlueSL just loves his SL55 AMG, I would too!
AMGBENZ
2003 SL55 AMG (should be on a truck to the dealer this week)
2000 ML430
For me the choice is simple AMG always overtakes a non AMG, AMG cars have a special touch that is hard to explian, if you like a more performance oriented feel AMG is the only way!
I looked at the SL600 at the Detroit Auto show, Its a SL500 with a BI-Turbo V12 and some wheels, I am sure its great but its no AMG.
The SL600 will have a softer ride and normal exhuast and that is exactly what some customers want, MB does there homework they know there customers, As I said before the SL600 is going to be liquid smooth acceleration and soft ride, kind of cool combo, that is why it will sell too!
Now the SL65 AMG will be one hell of a car for the customer who demands A V12 and that special touch AMG adds.
It sounds to me like BlueSL just loves his SL55 AMG, I would too!
AMGBENZ
2003 SL55 AMG (should be on a truck to the dealer this week)
2000 ML430
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02-23-2003, 11:39 AM
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2006 SL55 with 030 Performance Package
White Night how many miles do you have on your SL55?
The exhaust sound should change a bit with some miles on the car as goes into its heat cycles.
AMG had a special company design the exhaust system so it would sound great, you would think it would sound good.
One mans music could be another mans noise!
I will have my sl55 this week and find out.
AMGBENZ
The exhaust sound should change a bit with some miles on the car as goes into its heat cycles.
AMG had a special company design the exhaust system so it would sound great, you would think it would sound good.
One mans music could be another mans noise!
I will have my sl55 this week and find out.
AMGBENZ
02-23-2003, 12:40 PM
#9
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"The SL55 exhaust note sounds cheap!" Now there's a first...
You're certainly correct that the SL55 sounds like a big bore V8 and the powerful injection of exhaust gases into the exhaust system creates that characteristic noise which has been likened to a World War 2 fighter plane - the Spitfire for example used a supercharged Rolls-Royce Merlin engine. Personally I love it, especially with the roof down.
A V12 has more cylinder detonations per second for the same RPM so the frequency spectrum of what comes out of the tail pipe shifts upwards; in a V8 Ferrari, there is a flat plane crank which changes the ignition timing and again alters the sound to that more nervous, highly strung, buzz which turns into a wail at 8500 rpm.
I think you would find the SL600 altogether more polite during normal driving but from all accounts, the V12 is no shy retiring wall-flower when provoked! My (old) SL600 is much quieter than the SL55 at idle and on the move. To my mind the sound of that V12 engine is great at low RPM but becomes rather ragged as the RPM rise, too much going on maybe.
Other things:
It might be the SL600 will have the new DVD navigation but since they are all made on the same line and Richard has previously indicated the changes are quite extensive to the car's electronics, my guess is that it's more likely to by synchronised to a change of model year when other engineering changes can be introduced.
Weight. The Supercharger weighs alot in the SL55 and it turns out the SL55 and SL600 are almost identical weight, so there's probably not much difference. The SL55 feels a bit nose heavy but it's much better disguised by the steering and ABC than in the older cars. The SL55 also had to have the rear subframe made of steel because the torque available tore the aluminium alloy one used in the SL500 to bits; I assume the same steel version is used for the SL600.
AMGBENZ, look forward to hearing your impressions, great your car is arriving after all this time.
You're certainly correct that the SL55 sounds like a big bore V8 and the powerful injection of exhaust gases into the exhaust system creates that characteristic noise which has been likened to a World War 2 fighter plane - the Spitfire for example used a supercharged Rolls-Royce Merlin engine. Personally I love it, especially with the roof down.
A V12 has more cylinder detonations per second for the same RPM so the frequency spectrum of what comes out of the tail pipe shifts upwards; in a V8 Ferrari, there is a flat plane crank which changes the ignition timing and again alters the sound to that more nervous, highly strung, buzz which turns into a wail at 8500 rpm.
I think you would find the SL600 altogether more polite during normal driving but from all accounts, the V12 is no shy retiring wall-flower when provoked! My (old) SL600 is much quieter than the SL55 at idle and on the move. To my mind the sound of that V12 engine is great at low RPM but becomes rather ragged as the RPM rise, too much going on maybe.
Other things:
It might be the SL600 will have the new DVD navigation but since they are all made on the same line and Richard has previously indicated the changes are quite extensive to the car's electronics, my guess is that it's more likely to by synchronised to a change of model year when other engineering changes can be introduced.
Weight. The Supercharger weighs alot in the SL55 and it turns out the SL55 and SL600 are almost identical weight, so there's probably not much difference. The SL55 feels a bit nose heavy but it's much better disguised by the steering and ABC than in the older cars. The SL55 also had to have the rear subframe made of steel because the torque available tore the aluminium alloy one used in the SL500 to bits; I assume the same steel version is used for the SL600.
AMGBENZ, look forward to hearing your impressions, great your car is arriving after all this time.
02-23-2003, 12:50 PM
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2007 CL 550
OK everybody, may I suggest to stop philosophising and hear my Me Tarzan You Jane sunday afternoon statement:
The SL 55 is for the young and sporty, yet requiring more confort than the 996 turbo. In brief, a car to drive around with.
The SL 600 offers the ultimate in ride confort, for those who want to be driven around.
I am prepared to bet that the percentage of people installing Distronic in the SL 600 will be much higher than in the SL 55. Converselly, few SL 600 drivers will bother joining a car nut forum like this one.
What will I do? I'will stick to my SL 55: I owe it to my 12 Porsches heritage. If I want to see a lot of SL 600s, I will catch a flight to Miami, and look at the parking lot of Fisher Island senior residences.
The SL 55 is for the young and sporty, yet requiring more confort than the 996 turbo. In brief, a car to drive around with.
The SL 600 offers the ultimate in ride confort, for those who want to be driven around.
I am prepared to bet that the percentage of people installing Distronic in the SL 600 will be much higher than in the SL 55. Converselly, few SL 600 drivers will bother joining a car nut forum like this one.
What will I do? I'will stick to my SL 55: I owe it to my 12 Porsches heritage. If I want to see a lot of SL 600s, I will catch a flight to Miami, and look at the parking lot of Fisher Island senior residences.
Last edited by davidegai; 02-23-2003 at 12:54 PM.
02-23-2003, 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by blueSL
"The SL55 exhaust note sounds cheap!" Now there's a first...
You're certainly correct that the SL55 sounds like a big bore V8 and the powerful injection of exhaust gases into the exhaust system creates that characteristic noise which has been likened to a World War 2 fighter plane - the Spitfire for example used a supercharged Rolls-Royce Merlin engine. Personally I love it, especially with the roof down.
.
"The SL55 exhaust note sounds cheap!" Now there's a first...
You're certainly correct that the SL55 sounds like a big bore V8 and the powerful injection of exhaust gases into the exhaust system creates that characteristic noise which has been likened to a World War 2 fighter plane - the Spitfire for example used a supercharged Rolls-Royce Merlin engine. Personally I love it, especially with the roof down.
.
Right now, I cannot imagine why anyone would choose an SL600 over a 55. Debadge a 600 and it looks (and almost sounds) like a 500 or a 350. In the UK SL600 and SL55 are similar price. So why pay SL55 price for SL350 appearance?
02-23-2003, 03:07 PM
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I think someone has thrown all their toys out of the pram. boo hoo mr. blue.
White knight, why didn't you test drive the SL before you bought it?
Or buy a ferrari or Aston Vanquish since they are "better" cars
I mean who'd even think about buying an SL600 only for people to think "oh, my Lord, its not an AMG SL55, but its a normal Sl600"
last time I checked, people don't even know what an AMG is. All they think when they see an SL, is oh look a Mercedes convertible!
White knight, why didn't you test drive the SL before you bought it?
Or buy a ferrari or Aston Vanquish since they are "better" cars
I mean who'd even think about buying an SL600 only for people to think "oh, my Lord, its not an AMG SL55, but its a normal Sl600"
last time I checked, people don't even know what an AMG is. All they think when they see an SL, is oh look a Mercedes convertible!
02-23-2003, 05:20 PM
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Both the SL55 and the SL600 have been well described on this board, I suppose with the exception of the SL55 exhaust note; I just love the sound and disagree with the comparison of a Pontiac or a Pick-up truck. Not because they are cheap, but because they sound different 
Whoever buys these cars will enjoy having them, but with the SL600 just plan to buy for keeps. I agree with BlueSl on the resale value of the V12's, seen that happen to with many friends and no bi-turbo engine is going to change that pattern. Sad but true
Wolfman
Whoever buys these cars will enjoy having them, but with the SL600 just plan to buy for keeps. I agree with BlueSl on the resale value of the V12's, seen that happen to with many friends and no bi-turbo engine is going to change that pattern. Sad but true
Wolfman
02-23-2003, 09:05 PM
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2005 SL600, 2011 Honda Odyssey Touring Elite
Isn't one of the "problems" with the previous V12 engine that it uses a process to automatically deactivate six cylinders when maximal power is not needed? I hear that wasn't a popular feature and hypothesize that this could be the reason for the more rapid depreciation. Was this feature eliminated on the new bi-turbo V12?
02-24-2003, 07:00 AM
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To Bilal:
1. I didn't test drive an SL55 because they aren't held in dealer stock; they are sold out for years to come. How could you not know that?
2. As to your suggestion that I buy an Aston-Martin or a Ferrari, an inspection of the signature line on any of my messages will show that I currently own one of each.
To Jack Straw:
I doubt that the six cylinder shut-down feature on the S600 is the cause of any decline in value. I have an S600 with that feature, and the shutdown is completely undetectable, except that I occasionally get 22 mpg on long trips, whereas the older S600 I had could never do any better than 18 mpg. Recently while driving my S600 I reminded myself that this feature exists - it is so unnoticeable that I had forgotten about it. It certainly does not affect the performance of the car - full power is ready whenever you want it.
And to AMGBENZ:
My SL55 currently has about 950 miles on it.
1. I didn't test drive an SL55 because they aren't held in dealer stock; they are sold out for years to come. How could you not know that?
2. As to your suggestion that I buy an Aston-Martin or a Ferrari, an inspection of the signature line on any of my messages will show that I currently own one of each.
To Jack Straw:
I doubt that the six cylinder shut-down feature on the S600 is the cause of any decline in value. I have an S600 with that feature, and the shutdown is completely undetectable, except that I occasionally get 22 mpg on long trips, whereas the older S600 I had could never do any better than 18 mpg. Recently while driving my S600 I reminded myself that this feature exists - it is so unnoticeable that I had forgotten about it. It certainly does not affect the performance of the car - full power is ready whenever you want it.
And to AMGBENZ:
My SL55 currently has about 950 miles on it.
Last edited by White Knight II; 02-24-2003 at 02:59 PM.
02-25-2003, 06:02 PM
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CLK55 Cab
Actally I went to plaza motors in St. louis MO and they have an Sl55 in their showroom with a price tag of 155,000$ on it. I sat in it simply so I could tell my friends I sat in one. It is one of the most beatiful and comfortable cars I have ever been in. I also hear its pretty quick
02-26-2003, 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by White Knight II
I just got my SL55, and it seems to me that its exhaust note is very reminiscent of either a Pontiac Firebird or a Ford F250 truck. Since all three have big-bore V-8's, this shouldn't be surprising, but it wasn't what I expected. (And to my ear, it sounds cheap.)
I know Carlsson makes an exhaust system for the SL500; does anyone know whether it will fit a SL55, or what it sounds like?
I just got my SL55, and it seems to me that its exhaust note is very reminiscent of either a Pontiac Firebird or a Ford F250 truck. Since all three have big-bore V-8's, this shouldn't be surprising, but it wasn't what I expected. (And to my ear, it sounds cheap.)
I know Carlsson makes an exhaust system for the SL500; does anyone know whether it will fit a SL55, or what it sounds like?
http://www.burnsstainless.com/Crosso...rossovers.html
A little eye candy from the Burns site for those that enjoy beautiful exhaust craftmanship... Ferrari V10 Inconel headers
http://www.burnsstainless.com/TechAr...l_article.html
Last edited by JBrady; 02-26-2003 at 05:48 PM.
02-26-2003, 09:36 PM
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JBrady-
Thanks for the tip on the exhaust system. Unfortunately, I doubt that I'm adventurous enough to be the first one to try this.
But I'm intrigued - any idea what it costs to do it?
Thanks for the tip on the exhaust system. Unfortunately, I doubt that I'm adventurous enough to be the first one to try this.
But I'm intrigued - any idea what it costs to do it?
02-27-2003, 02:05 AM
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The part itself is about $250. Installation depends on the actual exhaust configuration as additional 304 stainless mandrel bent pipe and possibly flanges may be required. There are also access and design considerations. I would say $500-1000 would be a good target. If properly designed, it should be completely possible to return the car to OEM condition if the need arose. This would probably raise the price relative to your requirements. A benefit would be a power increase along with the change in tone and volume of the exhaust note.
02-28-2003, 06:52 AM
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Here's a message I sent to a close friend who reported that our dealer is quoting much shorter delivery times for an SL600 than for an SL55:
OK, I have more time now. Having now driven the SL55 more than 1,500 miles, here’s my impressions:
1. The SL55 is something of a kid’s car. The noise that comes out of the back really does sound like a truck or a Firebird. I’m starting to get used to it, but I still feel like a teenager when I put the pedal down.
2. The car is VERY heavy. It ain’t no sports car. When I see you I'll describe in great detail a near death experience I had yesterday controlling the car when someone pulled out in front of me on a deserted road when I was going 80 mph.
3. Despite the above, it is very comfortable and very well thought out. It has a sedan-like smoothness on the freeway, and it is quite comfortable (indeed enjoyable) to drive for long periods, e.g., from SFO to Palm Springs.
4. The top is only slightly short of miraculous. Yesterday I put it up (and down) several times during a trip over the Palm Springs mountains in order to deal with alternating snow, rain, sand and good weather.
5. And yes, the acceleration is quite good. It would be very interesting to see if it is better than the Aston-Martin. It doesn’t feel like it, but this kind of “seat-of- the pants” impression can be quite wrong.
I think what sells the SL55 is exactly what I don’t like about it – it is a kiddie car. It sounds good to a kid (or an aging kid), the buyers are not knowledgeable enough to understand the impact of the weight, and they have little or no experience with true high-end cars.
All of this leads me to the following conclusions/comparisons/questions regarding the SL600:
1. Does the SL600 weigh more than the SL55? The old 600SL was considerably heavier than the 500SL, and all the increased weight was in the front. As a result, the 600SL was reputed to corner very poorly, particularly when compared to the 500SL. I never personally experienced the comparison, but that was the story.
2. If they weight the same, why are the 0-60 times the same when the SL600 has considerably more torque?
3. Does the SL600 have the same massive brakes as the SL55?
4. Does the SL600 have the same transmission (and steering wheel controls) as the SL55? (And if the steering wheel transmission controls aren’t on the SL600, I wouldn’t worry much about it. You can still move the gearshift lever from side to side ands get exactly the same result.)
If you got the right answers to these questions, I would order the SL600, because:
1. I would expect that the noise that comes out the back would be much better. This would be coupled with “smoother” power, although, in the last analysis, I think this just gets down to the noise that comes out the back. It either goes or it doesn’t go – it isn’t going to be jerkier.
2. There would be much greater choice in interior colors.
3. The SL600 would be “plusher,” particularly on the inside.
4. The initial cost difference would be insignificant, although based on past experience, the depreciation on the SL600 would be quite a bit greater than the SL55. But this differential would become pretty insignificant over a long period of time.
In the last analysis, whatever the SL55 has over the SL600, I doubt that it’s worth waiting years for, unless the weight differential is truly significant.
OK, I have more time now. Having now driven the SL55 more than 1,500 miles, here’s my impressions:
1. The SL55 is something of a kid’s car. The noise that comes out of the back really does sound like a truck or a Firebird. I’m starting to get used to it, but I still feel like a teenager when I put the pedal down.
2. The car is VERY heavy. It ain’t no sports car. When I see you I'll describe in great detail a near death experience I had yesterday controlling the car when someone pulled out in front of me on a deserted road when I was going 80 mph.
3. Despite the above, it is very comfortable and very well thought out. It has a sedan-like smoothness on the freeway, and it is quite comfortable (indeed enjoyable) to drive for long periods, e.g., from SFO to Palm Springs.
4. The top is only slightly short of miraculous. Yesterday I put it up (and down) several times during a trip over the Palm Springs mountains in order to deal with alternating snow, rain, sand and good weather.
5. And yes, the acceleration is quite good. It would be very interesting to see if it is better than the Aston-Martin. It doesn’t feel like it, but this kind of “seat-of- the pants” impression can be quite wrong.
I think what sells the SL55 is exactly what I don’t like about it – it is a kiddie car. It sounds good to a kid (or an aging kid), the buyers are not knowledgeable enough to understand the impact of the weight, and they have little or no experience with true high-end cars.
All of this leads me to the following conclusions/comparisons/questions regarding the SL600:
1. Does the SL600 weigh more than the SL55? The old 600SL was considerably heavier than the 500SL, and all the increased weight was in the front. As a result, the 600SL was reputed to corner very poorly, particularly when compared to the 500SL. I never personally experienced the comparison, but that was the story.
2. If they weight the same, why are the 0-60 times the same when the SL600 has considerably more torque?
3. Does the SL600 have the same massive brakes as the SL55?
4. Does the SL600 have the same transmission (and steering wheel controls) as the SL55? (And if the steering wheel transmission controls aren’t on the SL600, I wouldn’t worry much about it. You can still move the gearshift lever from side to side ands get exactly the same result.)
If you got the right answers to these questions, I would order the SL600, because:
1. I would expect that the noise that comes out the back would be much better. This would be coupled with “smoother” power, although, in the last analysis, I think this just gets down to the noise that comes out the back. It either goes or it doesn’t go – it isn’t going to be jerkier.
2. There would be much greater choice in interior colors.
3. The SL600 would be “plusher,” particularly on the inside.
4. The initial cost difference would be insignificant, although based on past experience, the depreciation on the SL600 would be quite a bit greater than the SL55. But this differential would become pretty insignificant over a long period of time.
In the last analysis, whatever the SL55 has over the SL600, I doubt that it’s worth waiting years for, unless the weight differential is truly significant.
02-28-2003, 07:29 AM
#24
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That's all reasonable Ted. I'm pretty sure depreciation will be a big factor with the SL600, but the noise issue I can relate too.
Same thing re SL350/500 in a way. Another review this week says the 350 has as much go as the 500, not so much torque so not so good for overtaking, but still equally as quick point-to-point.
But the reviewer then concludes he'd rather have a V8 burble than a V6 rasp - if it comes down to that for U$15,000 difference, I'll take the rasp.
I'm for a quiet life, but do like the effort when required, so if it's a matter of liquid smooth power it would be a 600 without depreciation by choice....
By the way, are you happy with your colour choice?
Same thing re SL350/500 in a way. Another review this week says the 350 has as much go as the 500, not so much torque so not so good for overtaking, but still equally as quick point-to-point.
But the reviewer then concludes he'd rather have a V8 burble than a V6 rasp - if it comes down to that for U$15,000 difference, I'll take the rasp.
I'm for a quiet life, but do like the effort when required, so if it's a matter of liquid smooth power it would be a 600 without depreciation by choice....
By the way, are you happy with your colour choice?
Last edited by Mustard; 02-28-2003 at 07:32 AM.
02-28-2003, 08:06 AM
#25
MBWorld Fanatic!
Ted
At the risk of getting up Bilal's nose, can I give you my 2 cents worth?
1. The SL600 is almost exactly the same weight as the SL55; actually 5kg lighter. Compared to the SL500, the SL600 has the extra weight of the V12, the SL55 has the extra weight of the supercharger and both cars have the extra weight of the steel rear subframe (alloy in the SL500). The SL600 will appear similarly nose heavy though I think that weight is well disguised by the ABC compared to the older SL600 which had a much more basic adaptive damping setup. The older SL600 was no miracle around corners.
2. Engine power or more specifically power to weight ratio is the chief determinant of 0 - 60 times; the torque of an engine indicates the instantaneous twisting force available from the engine to drive the car and the torque through to the back wheels depends on the gearing. A lower torque can always be compensated for by changing gear.
My Ferrari has much less torque than the SL55 but achieves similar performance because it has the same power to weight ratio.
3. The SL600 does not have the same brakes as the SL55 although it does have the same SBC "brake by wire" system. I would expect the brakes to be just as good overall, perhaps not as resistant to fading.
4. Don't know about the steering wheel shift buttons but as you say, it's not the most important.
A few other points:
SL's are heavy, period. That's the price you pay for the mix of build quality, luxury and performance. The Mercedes has all three but if you want a lighter car, you have to compromise somewhere. Your Aston Martin may be lighter and as luxurious (primitive roof excepted) but it is not as well made nor does it have the performance. A 360 Modena is lighter and has better performance but luxurious it is not and if you put 15k miles on it a year, it will fall to bits.
The SL600 will definitely have a quieter exhaust note to suit the market it's designed for. I think you can characterise the SL600 as a loaded SL500 with SL55 performance. The SL600 is built on the same line as all the other cars and will have essentially the same choice of colours as the SL500 - the two interior colours which are missing in the SL55 are a rather vile blue and a light sand. These's always designo to choose from too. The only interior difference I can see is the ruffled leather on the door inserts which you may or may not like. Whether it will be plusher is debatable, same carpets, same seats as the SL500 (with same seating options), same leather options.
At the risk of getting up Bilal's nose, can I give you my 2 cents worth?
1. The SL600 is almost exactly the same weight as the SL55; actually 5kg lighter. Compared to the SL500, the SL600 has the extra weight of the V12, the SL55 has the extra weight of the supercharger and both cars have the extra weight of the steel rear subframe (alloy in the SL500). The SL600 will appear similarly nose heavy though I think that weight is well disguised by the ABC compared to the older SL600 which had a much more basic adaptive damping setup. The older SL600 was no miracle around corners.
2. Engine power or more specifically power to weight ratio is the chief determinant of 0 - 60 times; the torque of an engine indicates the instantaneous twisting force available from the engine to drive the car and the torque through to the back wheels depends on the gearing. A lower torque can always be compensated for by changing gear.
My Ferrari has much less torque than the SL55 but achieves similar performance because it has the same power to weight ratio.
3. The SL600 does not have the same brakes as the SL55 although it does have the same SBC "brake by wire" system. I would expect the brakes to be just as good overall, perhaps not as resistant to fading.
4. Don't know about the steering wheel shift buttons but as you say, it's not the most important.
A few other points:
SL's are heavy, period. That's the price you pay for the mix of build quality, luxury and performance. The Mercedes has all three but if you want a lighter car, you have to compromise somewhere. Your Aston Martin may be lighter and as luxurious (primitive roof excepted) but it is not as well made nor does it have the performance. A 360 Modena is lighter and has better performance but luxurious it is not and if you put 15k miles on it a year, it will fall to bits.
The SL600 will definitely have a quieter exhaust note to suit the market it's designed for. I think you can characterise the SL600 as a loaded SL500 with SL55 performance. The SL600 is built on the same line as all the other cars and will have essentially the same choice of colours as the SL500 - the two interior colours which are missing in the SL55 are a rather vile blue and a light sand. These's always designo to choose from too. The only interior difference I can see is the ruffled leather on the door inserts which you may or may not like. Whether it will be plusher is debatable, same carpets, same seats as the SL500 (with same seating options), same leather options.
