kamilclk430

I think its a great idea and it should have been done already. Consider me in on this test as soon as my car is complete. I will keep you updates as to when car will be good to go and try to log some IATs asap.

We can also set cruise control for a few specific IATs to see what happens under the hood at certain speed without getting much inthe throttle.

Thanks

Kamil

Benz-O-Rama

Absolutely, post em up, and don't forget to log OEM vs modded box IATs. Be great to have all this info in one thread.

kamilclk430

Prob is I wont be able to get OEM ones since my coolers are going on and intakes I can try to see if there is a local car with stock boxes that can do this.

Benz-O-Rama

That post was for ttboost, since he's still running stock boxes.


I'll dig up some of my IAT logs for reference. Should be known that I'm running the upgraded OEM Bosch 010 intercooler pump. Although, I didn't see any difference in IAT vs the old pump...

kamilclk430

IATs wont change from the pump for sure. But my bad I didnt know who the post was for I will work on my end to show results of te Scorpions

Thericker

Kamil, I've used/modded/dynoed the v12tt nearing 6 yrs now, trust me when I say the Scorpions may have been a great Metal band back in the day but... That sadly isn't the case for the Metal tubes in your engine bay... The 4 filters don't double the airflow in the least, all that intake is good for is possibly a coat rack in your Man Cave..

I too was overwhelmed when 1st installed them (it was in colder weather & in combination w/Misha widebody vented hood) it took me a couple months to realize & admit to myself, after any regular driving/heatsoak the bottom end grunt was anemic at best vs OEM airboxes, but def wakes up after 45-50 mph in COLDER weather only. In any mid to hi 70's ambient air you will quickly see sub par perf in both low & high end of rpm band vs single intakes or even restrive oem setup.

It's NO fault of Speedriven or Marcin, he didn't invent/design them a shady kat named Vadim, cooked up the design & he TOLD me exactly why there are 4 intakes vs 2? PURELY cosmetics, to better fill up the engine bay after adding big coolers, or w/oem coolers the peg leg singles look goofy plain & simple. The extra tarantula legs directly facing eng block are grabing NOTHING but broilng air rising up from the exhaust manifolds sitting few inches below them.

I tested BOTH the quads & a 1-off dual cone 3.00" setup, the duals worked better but still fell on it's face in any warm/hot ambient air. The quad setup is awesomei n looks dept & bov sounds but that's it. There's a reason why Marcin recently fabbed up that dual cone 1-off setup that exits engine bay ie it works & quads don't.. Please don't take my reply as an insult etc it isn't meant to be harmful to you or Speedriven, I'm STILL Marcin's #1 fan.. Im just adding my experiences from using EVERY concievable option available to me or made by me..

kamilclk430

Hey Sean,

I don't take things on here as insults the more info the better. Did you ever log any IATs on those scorpions? would heat wrap around those tubes benefit me at all? I will log some IATs either way to see how it works since I already have the intakes.

Thanks

Kamil

ttboost

Probably a waste of time, but here is what I did. I cut out the inside of my (spare) airboxes, to eliminate that restriction. Obviously the air box tubing coming up from the turbo isn't exactly optimum either, but cutting the "roof" off that tubing, inside the air box, would seem to eliminate some or all of that restriction, but obviously you now need to eliminate the air filter. I originally cut the air filter, thinking I could use that as a "gasket", but clearly that plan needed some rethinking, as it seems obvious to me that it will get sucked into the turbo. I do plan to seal the airbox, probably with a light bead of silicone on the outer lip, so as not to potentially suck that in as well. My other thought was this: at the track, I can remove the air filter, and install the factory intake tube so I could run this modded air box at the track with no filter, thus getting "cold" air in through the original intake tubing through the modded, unfiltered air box, just no filter for the runs. I am using a Uni Air filter. It seems to be the only filter that will fit without obstructing anything else, and wearing a hole in it. From a square inch perspective, it is a smidge bigger than the factory paper filter, which I don't think was much of a problem anyway...

RaceHorse

I thought I'd add my own personal experience. I had the opportunity to make a few passes with a set of loaner gutted stock air boxes with no filters(as shown in the post above). I was able to run a 10.98 but that was slower than 3 other passes made that same day with stock air boxes and no filters. To me, trying to find the largest tubing to fit like Sean did will make it easier for air to be drawn in from the inlet of the turbo. Eurocharged is increasing them on their upgrade turbo package which forced me to take a closer look. With the airboxes off the turbo inlet is only a 2" diameter ID / 2.25" diameter OD (when sliding silicone tubing over). Opening up intake tubes to 4" diameter will allow the little wheel to draw air in with much less resistance. There are some cheap 2.25-4" silicone 90s and 45s fittings on ebay that may work without having so many connections. Only thing is they look thin and I don't know how they will handle the heat when attached to the turbo housing. I'm hoping to install my downpipes this weekend, and then address intake next. I'm thinking flat cone filters or maybe 2 wedge shaped filter boxes right in front of the grille connecting to the stock ovaled openings with some form of 4" diameter flexible tubing. When it happens pictures will follow.

RaceHorse

Here is another filter setup that hasn't been discussed, Something in line for the 230 boys.

http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-co...bye_hello8.jpg

ttboost

So as Sean says, (and seems to have proven) it seems that a couple of 3.5" or 4" silicone elbows (that transition to the turbo) and a filter will flow better than any air box configuration?

RaceHorse

Modified stock air boxes didn't seem to do anything for me. In theory the larger tubes should make it easier to feed the turbos.

Thericker

All you'll ever need & more, I bought everything but header wrap on Frozenboost.com
Header wrap @ eBay get highest heat # & color of choice, soak in bucket of water & wrap intakes after final form taken etc..

PS I truly gutted airboxes, take out ALL the plastic channeling, then sand it smooth, itll be much more free flowing this way, I used foam cone filters butted up to oem holes it's my 2nd choice in order of perf gains, 1st choice by a country mile being on my sl now above.. PS that cl design has been discussed before it was a 1 off disaster where if you look closely, they just recreated stock airboxes outtve MILD steel & added heavy lame filters. It showed hp/tq losses as I remember it..

More curious what were your trap speeds? Stock vs no filter semi gutted boxes? ET's can be changed by myriad of other variables, traps are hp..

ttboost

I think I will do my testing at the track, not the dyno. Takes 5 minutes to change boxes...

RaceHorse

No change in traps. only decent pass was a 10.98 with gutted boxes,while I ran 10.94, 10.92 all mid to high 126.xx mph. PB was hot lapped also with stock boxes, no filters for all runs. Quicker times resulted in slightly faster traps. I know what your thinking more power bad launch may not give the faster time, but it wasn't the case.


ttboost, Its worth trying maybe the computer needs time to make adjustments to the slight difference in air flow who knows. The launch is where you will see the biggest gain since you already have a nice MPH. I guess every little bit helps.

ttboost

I would think all things being equal (60ft time), I could pick up 1-2mph and maybe a tenth or so. My best 60ft is only 1.68, so I definitely have room for improvement. Hoping for 10.70's with a better launch and these stupid air boxes...

Zax63

Alright...all this talk about the sucky-ness of the scorpion intakes has caused me to ask the boys at Speedriven to use a solution similar to TheRicker, two larger tubes running to the front of the car, hogging out some of the plastic from the radiator surround for more volume, and doing two CAIs in the front of the car. Hope you all are correct. I figure since Marcin is writing the tune, he might as well tune to whatever solution he comes up with rather than changing to a new intake in a few months while running a tune written for the scorpions...I'm not sure if there is any difference but what the hell...

V12TTenthusiast

Speedriven had a setup where they put a CAI in front of the radiator for there GT30 kit but it was not offered as a mass production kit, its an in house job if you want those intakes

ttboost

They must only do it on the newer front ends or modify all the hoses that are in the way...

kamilclk430

I can't wait to get my car to test all this. I will be running the Scorpions at the track and on the dyno. Marko went 10.7 with intercoolers and scorpion intakes plus IC pump and exchangers. This was before the rear tank.

ttboost

I have a front mount HE and a Bosch pump with a stage 2 flash and I think a 10.7 is very possible without any intake mods. I'm hoping the intake mods will give me another couple mph and a half a tenth or so. I went 10.99 my first time out with DR's. Street tires are useless at this level.

Benz-O-Rama

I'd still love to hear/read Speedriven's technical findings on their quad setup. Not sure why they haven't been forthcoming with pre/post IAT as well as pre/post hp/tq gains with their intake only. They've posted plenty of dyno graphs with their top mounts/intake/HE/tune setup, but why not the parts individually? Every other performance company does this. They'll state X horsepower gain, or Y torque gain, for individual components. Seems Speedriven only will make claims for hardware packages only. Unless I'm missing something. Has anyone else seen them state claims for individual components?

Zax63

I seem to remember them making a claim on the downpipes but I may be wrong. I also think you'd have to do additive claims, not individual, because for example the top mounts may not do much without the tune. So maybe you do a dyno with just a tune, then tune and intakes, then tune, intakes, top mounts, then tune, intakes, top mounts, down pipes. I also have seen many tuners claim absurd numbers from each part that would add up to a much larger number than what they see from all of the parts working together. We have all seen the ads in the back of car and driver claiming "34 hp with just an intake on your Charger"... I think Speedriven makes the claims on packages because the stuff is designed to work together. But like I said above, I just moved away from the scorpions to a CAI system because I suspect that in the real world the Scorpions wouldn't add a lot.

Benz-O-Rama

I'm speaking specifically about their quad filter intake. Why no published data or gains on that? That's something people would buy a la cart. Especially in the past before people like Sean did their own work and shared their findings. Years ago I inquired about purchasing their intake. I was told that it was not for sale without the top mounts. I then inquired again about purchasing, roughly a year after that. They hired a guy (can't remember his name) that did more of their forum and social media stuff and was very active on this forum. I got zero response. And this was AFTER I purchased a Speedriven TCU tune. Go figure...

Their website is, and has always been a joke. But if you ask anyone, that Marcin has laid his hands upon their car, they speak of him as a deity. I'm sure his mechanic skills are superb, but his customer facing and retail marketing skills leave much to be desired.

But, that's what these forums and threads are for. We, the membership, will engineer our own god damned solution if the vendors ignore us.

ttboost

Well said...