SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: Update on SL65 Engine Work
11-29-2014, 04:41 PM
#51
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V12-Biturbo
Yeah coolers, intake, billet turbos, ecu/tcu, exhaust in his own thread he stated no trunk tank. Also whats your point I stated in my thread that my shop fabbing up custom top mount intercoolers with the help of World Motorsports that will provide the specs for the top mount intercoolers they did on there CL65 as well as I stated front mount CAI once engine is back and car goes to body shop for kit so I can do a proper CAI.
That's pretty much gonna be the same build as Zax's except with head work. But he clearly posted 680-690 whp on his build
That's pretty much gonna be the same build as Zax's except with head work. But he clearly posted 680-690 whp on his build
Originally Posted by*V12TTenthusiast*
He just said 679.64/879 lbs ft both at the wheel....*
I messaged him a few weeks if he had more dynos of his build which consist of downpipes/intakes/ecu/tcu/HE/transmission and no trunk tank
He just said 679.64/879 lbs ft both at the wheel....*
I messaged him a few weeks if he had more dynos of his build which consist of downpipes/intakes/ecu/tcu/HE/transmission and no trunk tank
Last edited by Thericker; 11-29-2014 at 04:48 PM.
11-29-2014, 04:44 PM
#52
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Wrong, they bumped rev limiter up to 5700 rpm's on the Black. Actually has bigger turbs etc etc.... NO the stksmanifolds are sand cast 1 piece attchd to actual turbs.. they'll split/crumble to bits if porting attempted, the overall size of stk mani's is beyond pathetic to move enough airflow for true700-800 whp.. A tuner in Dubai attempted cutting off small oem turbs, replacing w/larger turbs, reattaching them to stk manifolds, & the new massive airflow backfired into the manifolds/engine creating near catastrophic failure..
Gotta laugh at this thread... V12ttenthusiasts acts like he's reinventing the wheel here.. The CAI he had made is worse than oem in many ways, he utilized SS tubing @ least 3/4 of it is showing in route to stk turb inlets,that just retains/creates higher IAT's those tubes sit inches from the broiling heads & manifolds, then the airfilters are exposed.. They will lose mass hp/tq once hood is shut... & his thoughts on why oem boxes are woefully inadequate have been painfully detailed by dozens of us dozens of times over the past 5-6 yrs... etc Sorry to be curt here, but V12ttEnthusiats, theories/thoughts on FINALLY moving these m275's into 800+whp range while retaining stock turbs/mani's etc is beyond remedial..
Gotta laugh at this thread... V12ttenthusiasts acts like he's reinventing the wheel here.. The CAI he had made is worse than oem in many ways, he utilized SS tubing @ least 3/4 of it is showing in route to stk turb inlets,that just retains/creates higher IAT's those tubes sit inches from the broiling heads & manifolds, then the airfilters are exposed.. They will lose mass hp/tq once hood is shut... & his thoughts on why oem boxes are woefully inadequate have been painfully detailed by dozens of us dozens of times over the past 5-6 yrs... etc Sorry to be curt here, but V12ttEnthusiats, theories/thoughts on FINALLY moving these m275's into 800+whp range while retaining stock turbs/mani's etc is beyond remedial..
Im here to make friends, buttt
I guess you missed "massaged turbos",ill be more aware we have comprehension impared readers. lso its 100% possible to seperate the manifold in 3 pieces, take the clamp off of the 2 flex pipes and the log portion would be accessible. Im aware the turbine housing is cast into the middle section of the turbo manifold, like GTRs and countless Audis etc. The list of differences would be to extensive to list so I I didnt waste my breath. Seems I was called out by the all mighty lol.
My point was a BS still falls off in power after 5, 500rpm regardless of the changes.
Making consistant power to redline would be/is my first point of business, but thats for my build thread to come.
11-29-2014, 05:12 PM
#53
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V12-Biturbo
Im here to make friends, buttt
I guess you missed "massaged turbos",ill be more aware we have comprehension impared readers. lso its 100% possible to seperate the manifold in 3 pieces, take the clamp off of the 2 flex pipes and the log portion would be accessible. Im aware the turbine housing is cast into the middle section of the turbo manifold, like GTRs and countless Audis etc. The list of differences would be to extensive to list so I I didnt waste my breath. Seems I was called out by the all mighty lol.
My point was a BS still falls off in power after 5, 500rpm regardless of the changes.
Making consistant power to redline would be/is my first point of business, but thats for my build thread to come.
I guess you missed "massaged turbos",ill be more aware we have comprehension impared readers. lso its 100% possible to seperate the manifold in 3 pieces, take the clamp off of the 2 flex pipes and the log portion would be accessible. Im aware the turbine housing is cast into the middle section of the turbo manifold, like GTRs and countless Audis etc. The list of differences would be to extensive to list so I I didnt waste my breath. Seems I was called out by the all mighty lol.
My point was a BS still falls off in power after 5, 500rpm regardless of the changes.
Making consistant power to redline would be/is my first point of business, but thats for my build thread to come.
11-29-2014, 05:16 PM
#54
You guys are nuts!!!! Let him build his car and then we will see what he actually gets. It seems like you guys forgot how to look at naked ladies on your computer...There is alot more out there on this here internet.LOL Anyway, almost all builds take previous success and try to tweak a little more out of it. Fabricators have their own approach as do tuners, so who knows what the variations will produce. Hopefully we will have trap speeds to compare since all the dyno talk back and forth becomes meaningless and discredited. Good luck with the remainder of the build.
11-29-2014, 06:42 PM
#56
Super Member
Thericker you say you are trying to help but you are just dampening the enthusiasm of a fellow members build. Let's see what the outcome is then we can comment on the results. Good luck to all.
11-29-2014, 07:25 PM
#57
Super Member
You guys are nuts!!!! Let him build his car and then we will see what he actually gets. It seems like you guys forgot how to look at naked ladies on your computer...There is alot more out there on this here internet.LOL Anyway, almost all builds take previous success and try to tweak a little more out of it. Fabricators have their own approach as do tuners, so who knows what the variations will produce. Hopefully we will have trap speeds to compare since all the dyno talk back and forth becomes meaningless and discredited. Good luck with the remainder of the build.
11-29-2014, 07:50 PM
#58
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04 SL600
Gotta love the voice of reason. This is an awesome build and I want to commend the OP for giving the extra effort to even make this thread, really looking forward to the results.
11-29-2014, 11:36 PM
#60
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V12-Biturbo
730 hp / 537 kW of power, 1,320 Nm of top and a top speed of 340 km/h: With the BRABUS SV12 S Biturbo coupe based on the latest Mercedes CL 600 model BRABUS*presents the world’s fastest and most powerful coupe.
At the heart of this exclusive automobile is the BRABUS SV12 S Biturbo engine. It is based on the turbocharged Mercedes 600 twelve-cylinder engine and represents the most powerful street-legal V12 engine in the world. Installing a special BRABUS crankshaft with longer stroke, combined with a bigger bore and correspondingly sized forged pistons, increases displacement from 5.5 to 6.3 liters. Further engine modifications also include precision-machining the cylinder heads and fitting them with four special camshafts.
In addition the engine peripherals are also modified extensively. The modifications include special exhaust manifolds, two larger turbochargers, a high-efficiency intercooler and a high-performance exhaust system with metal catalysts and low back pressure. Extensive bench tests determined the new programming for the engine electronics that not only maximizes power yield but also ensures that the engine meets stringent Euro IV emission limits.
Performance figures of the BRABUS SV12 S Biturbo displacement engine speak volumes: A rated power output of 730 hp / 537 kW at 5,100 rpm is just as extraordinary as a peak torque of 1,320 Nm at just 2,100 rpm. In the car peak torque is limited electronically to 1,100 Nm.
Power is transferred to the rear wheels via a modified five-speed automatic transmission. The optionally available BRABUS locking differential optimizes traction. All BRABUS drivetrain elements are operated with ARAL high-performance lubricants.
Now w/all the extra ultra professional work listed here from Brabus, they made a smoking 730 BHP no way on Gods green earth is V12TTenthusiasts mod list going to even see an HONEST 700 whp.. Maybe on Q16 w/his mod plan but that's it.. These are NOT giant CID high revving engines, they don't respond to these mods the same way...
At the heart of this exclusive automobile is the BRABUS SV12 S Biturbo engine. It is based on the turbocharged Mercedes 600 twelve-cylinder engine and represents the most powerful street-legal V12 engine in the world. Installing a special BRABUS crankshaft with longer stroke, combined with a bigger bore and correspondingly sized forged pistons, increases displacement from 5.5 to 6.3 liters. Further engine modifications also include precision-machining the cylinder heads and fitting them with four special camshafts.
In addition the engine peripherals are also modified extensively. The modifications include special exhaust manifolds, two larger turbochargers, a high-efficiency intercooler and a high-performance exhaust system with metal catalysts and low back pressure. Extensive bench tests determined the new programming for the engine electronics that not only maximizes power yield but also ensures that the engine meets stringent Euro IV emission limits.
Performance figures of the BRABUS SV12 S Biturbo displacement engine speak volumes: A rated power output of 730 hp / 537 kW at 5,100 rpm is just as extraordinary as a peak torque of 1,320 Nm at just 2,100 rpm. In the car peak torque is limited electronically to 1,100 Nm.
Power is transferred to the rear wheels via a modified five-speed automatic transmission. The optionally available BRABUS locking differential optimizes traction. All BRABUS drivetrain elements are operated with ARAL high-performance lubricants.
Now w/all the extra ultra professional work listed here from Brabus, they made a smoking 730 BHP no way on Gods green earth is V12TTenthusiasts mod list going to even see an HONEST 700 whp.. Maybe on Q16 w/his mod plan but that's it.. These are NOT giant CID high revving engines, they don't respond to these mods the same way...
End of point... you want 800+ whp on a V12tt add real shorty style mani's & some gt30-35 turbs*NOT trying to put anyone down, just trying to help him really reach his goal vs being nickle & dimed to death for maybe @ best 700 whp on Q16 w/solid tune.
11-30-2014, 01:11 AM
#61
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04 SL600
Seems like more than a few of us think your a pest. Just copy and paste a few more spec sheets and leave out your comintary from now on.
You know who you are.
You know who you are.
11-30-2014, 03:05 AM
#62
Senior Member
Sean, please take a deep breath and calm down a little bit.I see your points but v12ttenthusiasts first goal with 700whp is optimistic but not totally out of the world. Brabus made their 730bhp package more than 10years ago out of the 5.5liter when there was NO competition even no SL65. Thir goal was not to break the tranny to get trouble with rich customers. Look what GAD Motors from Germany made out of this package with Mo's Brabus Bullit. 136-137mph trapping car, with pump gas.And this was first attempt 900bhp with the restrictive 600 Heads and cams.They have much better coolers now and I think on 65 Engine the gains would be even more. So its possible to make good power, its only a question of how much you are going to spend...Lets wait and see :-)
11-30-2014, 01:20 PM
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V12-Biturbo
Yeah, I know little to nothing on modding the m275 are you from TX by any chance Mr 9 posts? "We know who you are" lol STFUKupAMG-Driver, we clearly see eye to eye on a lot of subjects.. Just trying to add some facts on what actually really makes mass hp/tq on these V12's
The latest V12 packages from Brabus consists of same basic recipe, though they made a far better CAI, it's listed in my CAI threads.. the reason I brought up the 600 being bored to 6.3 in Brabus mod list was/is due to 65 having less material to bore. Brabus did it more for bragging rights as the extra .3 liter didn't really do squat pef wise. And V12enthusiasts mentioned boring the 6.0 as a possibility in making more hp...Even the latest Brabus 65 2014 builds utilize 600 bored to 6.3 w/new CAI they gained 50+rwhp etc etc their latest ouputs on ALL these mods are now up to 800-BHP. Not just bigger turbos but forging internals etc etc that 800 BHP IN REAL WORLD MB DTL% is 18% that means ALL mods discussed only NET 700 rwhp... Last time I'll repeat this, much larger turbs/real shorty manifolds are what's needed to crack 840-850 rwhp... Don't you think if Speedriven who's made the MOST rwhp to date on the V12tt would've added Cams/ported-polished heads etc etc & added them to the package IF they made more rwhp? Speedriven also upgrades tranns & has no failures I've heard of.. Think abouti it..
Funny Brabus is making a V8 Biturbo version now, stk 5.5 they bore out to 6.0 & make between 800-850 BHP.. Though much less tq..
Last edited by Thericker; 11-30-2014 at 11:39 PM.
11-30-2014, 01:41 PM
#64
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V12-Biturbo
looks like a 10 yr old build huh
That = 700 rwhp on 98 RON octANE only set you back about$900k-$1,000,000.00
Since you love cut/paste here's THE LATEST 800 hp EXTENSIVE list EMPLOYED ON ALL v12 TT 6.3 ENGINE BUILDS..
SpecificationsEdit
Brabus begins with the the 5.5 liter twin-turbo V12 and replaces it with a 6.3 liter twin-turbo V12. All the extra*displacement*is courtesy of a longer stroking*crankshaft, larger cylinder bore, lager*pistons*and new piston rods. The*air intake*and twin turbo system were developed and tuned in house by Brabus. The set up includes custom headers as well as four water-to-air intercoolers. Brabus completes the package with a free flowing high-performance stainless steel exhaust.
Brabus also tuned the electronic components of the car. Reprogramming the mapping for ignition and injection ensuring performance and emission standards are met. All the power produced by the engine is transferred to the rear wheels via a five-speed automatic transmission. To keep the car safe to drive Brabus equipped a limited-slip differential and a stability control program.
Brabus has made it their trademark to make powerful models outside Mercedes-Benz product range., The engine was heavily tuned and was much more powerful than the original.
Brabus begins with the the 5.5 liter twin-turbo V12 and replaces it with a 6.3 liter twin-turbo V12. All the extra*displacement*is courtesy of a longer stroking*crankshaft, larger cylinder bore, lager*pistons*and new piston rods. The*air intake*and twin turbo system were developed and tuned in house by Brabus. The set up includes custom headers as well as four water-to-air intercoolers. Brabus completes the package with a free flowing high-performance stainless steel exhaust.
Brabus also tuned the electronic components of the car. Reprogramming the mapping for ignition and injection ensuring performance and emission standards are met. All the power produced by the engine is transferred to the rear wheels via a five-speed automatic transmission. To keep the car safe to drive Brabus equipped a limited-slip differential and a stability control program.
Brabus has made it their trademark to make powerful models outside Mercedes-Benz product range., The engine was heavily tuned and was much more powerful than the original.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO
Last edited by Thericker; 11-30-2014 at 03:24 PM.
11-30-2014, 03:44 PM
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V12-Biturbo
& lighter curb weight. Forgettaabout new tech inside too..
Last edited by Thericker; 11-30-2014 at 03:48 PM.
11-30-2014, 03:44 PM
#67
I am interested in this thread and the OP's progress, but if I hear anymore talk of "HP" goals, I'm gonna puke. I want to see trap speed gains. THAT is pretty universal. I don't recall seeing any "real world" performance numbers from the OP, but I seem to recall he has/had the same EC tune, and similar mods as I have. I trapped almost 128 (127.6 actually). I would be flat impressed if he went 135mph with his proposed mods. I think you need 50whp to gain 5mph.
11-30-2014, 04:45 PM
#68
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V12-Biturbo
I am interested in this thread and the OP's progress, but if I hear anymore talk of "HP" goals, I'm gonna puke. I want to see trap speed gains. THAT is pretty universal. I don't recall seeing any "real world" performance numbers from the OP, but I seem to recall he has/had the same EC tune, and similar mods as I have. I trapped almost 128 (127.6 actually). I would be flat impressed if he went 135mph with his proposed mods. I think you need 50whp to gain 5mph.
to @ least to trap 135 + Chk Dragtimes only kats trapping 135+ are either both in super negative DA, or have huge turbs/supporting mods Speedrven route..
Or Renntech setup Ferarri,, Carbon Cramic Rotors, Carbon Fiber Driveshaft, blk Series turbos w/custom 1 off cai.. & skinnies up front on lightweight Bogart or the like rear drag setup, full exhst, larger IC'S tuned for, 100-109-q16 tunes, interior lightening ie SEATS for racing versions rear reservoir packed w/ice.. etc etc http://www.dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Be...lip-20351.html though this run was so far ahead of restt in Florida heat, it's heavily rumored he utilized Nitrous to acomplish this.. jody has since bought all SGC old owner who set this records mods & is supposed to see if indeed these Traps/ET's are possible w/out Nitrous??? Jury's out..
An older member Stephen ran ECU/TCU drags/skinny's full exhaust 104 octane n his w220 S600 and addded 150-200 shot nitrous ran 10.58 @ 132 mph if mem serves.. The massive Curbweight kills these wonderful machines
Last edited by Thericker; 11-30-2014 at 04:56 PM.
11-30-2014, 05:01 PM
#69
Super Member
I had this on a different post but I would like to know what you guys think.
Do you guys think that wider tires of the same type and compound will mean lower 60 times?
It seems that traction off the line becomes an issue as the power levels get up with our Mercedes, so would a wide body with wider wheels and tires net a faster time?
Do you guys think that wider tires of the same type and compound will mean lower 60 times?
It seems that traction off the line becomes an issue as the power levels get up with our Mercedes, so would a wide body with wider wheels and tires net a faster time?
11-30-2014, 05:12 PM
#70
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V12-Biturbo
I had this on a different post but I would like to know what you guys think.
Do you guys think that wider tires of the same type and compound will mean lower 60 times?
It seems that traction off the line becomes an issue as the power levels get up with our Mercedes, so would a wide body with wider wheels and tires net a faster time?
Do you guys think that wider tires of the same type and compound will mean lower 60 times?
It seems that traction off the line becomes an issue as the power levels get up with our Mercedes, so would a wide body with wider wheels and tires net a faster time?
if you need links to source these parts LMK
11-30-2014, 06:03 PM
#71
Super Member
I do understand that smaller wheels with bigger side walls is the way to go however assume you cannot go smaller as in my case due to Brembo BBK will wider such as 345mm wide tires hook better than 285mm in the same compound and type?
11-30-2014, 06:27 PM
#72
Jody's full speedriven pkg made a true 128 mph http://www.dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Be...lip-17970.html
to @ least to trap 135 + Chk Dragtimes only kats trapping 135+ are either both in super negative DA, or have huge turbs/supporting mods Speedrven route..
Or Renntech setup Ferarri,, Carbon Cramic Rotors, Carbon Fiber Driveshaft, blk Series turbos w/custom 1 off cai.. & skinnies up front on lightweight Bogart or the like rear drag setup, full exhst, larger IC'S tuned for, 100-109-q16 tunes, interior lightening ie SEATS for racing versions rear reservoir packed w/ice.. etc etc http://www.dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Be...lip-20351.html though this run was so far ahead of restt in Florida heat, it's heavily rumored he utilized Nitrous to acomplish this.. jody has since bought all SGC old owner who set this records mods & is supposed to see if indeed these Traps/ET's are possible w/out Nitrous??? Jury's out..
An older member Stephen ran ECU/TCU drags/skinny's full exhaust 104 octane n his w220 S600 and addded 150-200 shot nitrous ran 10.58 @ 132 mph if mem serves.. The massive Curbweight kills these wonderful machines
to @ least to trap 135 + Chk Dragtimes only kats trapping 135+ are either both in super negative DA, or have huge turbs/supporting mods Speedrven route..
Or Renntech setup Ferarri,, Carbon Cramic Rotors, Carbon Fiber Driveshaft, blk Series turbos w/custom 1 off cai.. & skinnies up front on lightweight Bogart or the like rear drag setup, full exhst, larger IC'S tuned for, 100-109-q16 tunes, interior lightening ie SEATS for racing versions rear reservoir packed w/ice.. etc etc http://www.dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Be...lip-20351.html though this run was so far ahead of restt in Florida heat, it's heavily rumored he utilized Nitrous to acomplish this.. jody has since bought all SGC old owner who set this records mods & is supposed to see if indeed these Traps/ET's are possible w/out Nitrous??? Jury's out..
An older member Stephen ran ECU/TCU drags/skinny's full exhaust 104 octane n his w220 S600 and addded 150-200 shot nitrous ran 10.58 @ 132 mph if mem serves.. The massive Curbweight kills these wonderful machines
Hmmm, interesting. I have no idea what a "full Speedriven Package " is, but my car, which is basically a car with a flash, went 128ish. I have stock cats only (no mufflers, resonators, etc), front mount HE & Bosch pump (doesn't add power, but helps me keep what I have) and a "Stage 2" Eurocharged ECU/TCU tunes. I'm pretty sure with a few more runs, I could have gotten into the 10.70's with my car, maybe 130 or so. My only flashed passes were 11.20 and 10.99, both spinning pretty bad. (1.78 60ft on the 11.20 & 1.68 60ft on the 10.99 pass) do your own math. This was on wasted 18 DR's.
As I said, I seem to recall the OP's car and mine were nearly identically modded before he started this quest, so trap speed will be the deciding factor with regards to results.
...and I agree on the curb weight...that's why I am quitting here. I need exponentially more power to go as quick as I want to, with the weight...not willing to spend that much loot on this turd to do it. I'd rather start with something 1000lbs lighter...it will be just as fast...with less power...
Last edited by ttboost; 11-30-2014 at 06:29 PM.
11-30-2014, 06:47 PM
#73
I tried to settle the tribes, but little did it work. LOL I have ran 127.xx with stock cats, stock intercoolers and stock wheels up front. It was a full weight pass. Tunes have improved, and Speedriven is not the only one out there with V12TT tuning success. Jody's pass is from 5 yrs ago. My Eurocharged tune, along with Dr. Matt's and ttboost will hold its one in similar conditions. I feel confident that even with stock intercoolers my car would trap 129-130 mph in cool weather, with my CAI, downpipes and some MS109. I was ready to, but didn't get the chance. We all know the V12TT manifold is a choke point, but if some other work, that has not been done before, nets some good power, it will be an asset to us all to know. I praise the OP for spending his money and his willingness to share it with us.
265/40/18s are all you need for traction, wider are heavier and not necessary. A day at the track with decent prep will make it obvious. For the street wider will help.
265/40/18s are all you need for traction, wider are heavier and not necessary. A day at the track with decent prep will make it obvious. For the street wider will help.
11-30-2014, 06:51 PM
#74
Ultimately keep up the work and progress V12TTenthusiast!! You're one of a very small pool of guys even willing to get into these cars as far as you have. In the end however I agree with Thericker that to get the big power that people are seeking you'll have to go with one off exhaust manifolds and normal hot sided turbo setup and be in the 70mm+- turbine wheel sizes.
11-30-2014, 06:55 PM
#75
I tried to settle the tribes, but little did it work. LOL I have ran 127.xx with stock cats, stock intercoolers and stock wheels up front. It was a full weight pass. Tunes have improved, and Speedriven is not the only one out there with V12TT tuning success. Jody's pass is from 5 yrs ago. My Eurocharged tune, along with Dr. Matt's and ttboost will hold its one in similar conditions. I feel confident that even with stock intercoolers my car would trap 129-130 mph in cool weather, with my CAI, downpipes and some MS109. I was ready to, but didn't get the chance. We all know the V12TT manifold is a choke point, but if some other work, that has not been done before, nets some good power, it will be an asset to us all to know. I praise the OP for spending his money and his willingness to share it with us.
265/40/18s are all you need for traction, wider are heavier and not necessary. A day at the track with decent prep will make it obvious. For the street wider will help.
265/40/18s are all you need for traction, wider are heavier and not necessary. A day at the track with decent prep will make it obvious. For the street wider will help.
Ultimately keep up the work and progress V12TTenthusiast!! You're one of a very small pool of guys even willing to get into these cars as far as you have. In the end however I agree with Thericker that to get the big power that people are seeking you'll have to go with one off exhaust manifolds and normal hot sided turbo setup and be in the 70mm+- turbine wheel sizes.
