V12TTenthusiast

So I thought I post some info on my build since I haven't posted much. My car was dropped off 1st week of August for custom top mount intercoolers, billet turbos, and port and polished heads. Project was suppose to take 2 months but instead took more like 4 months.













But I can't complain to much since a lot of this work is going into the unknown. My turbo guy works on garret turbos and didn't find a wheel that was a direct swap so instead of going the precision route he spent about a month making custom wheels that would be a direct swap but maximize airflow with a new design for the blades. From what I notice about the stock wheel and these new billet wheels is that these billet wheels have a much taller blade design









My cylinder heads took about 3 weeks, from what I've been told the intake side was just to match the gasket and smooth out and rough edges, he didn't want to risk messing up the air flow of the intake side and messing up the heads since a pair of 600s run $2000-$2500 and 65s are $3500-$4000 from the junk yard, and $7000-8000+ from MB. The exhaust side had much more work done to them as you can see in the pics.













On the turbos I had them attach a new flange on the exhaust side since the stock flanges are kinda a weird shape and I couldn't find a flange the fit quite right from after market vendors. Plus if I want to go back to stock the turbo outlet can be removed by removing a few screws and swapping another outlet and gasket.





There is also possible mods for the turbo inlet as well since the inlet is only about 2 1/4 inch in size. Also the turbos will be port matched to the gasket so the air flowing will face very little restriction if any.

Right now just waiting another week for MB to deliver all the gaskets/screws/bolts/seals I need. While the engine is out my tech recommended replacing the chain tensioner and the injector seals. All the parts were about 750+ plus shipping but I found a MB dealer in Kansas that offered 25% off parts. If I didn't find a deal for parts this would prob be more like 1000-1100 in parts. I didn't want to cheap out on third party gaskets since if anything went wrong it would be more expensive to fix the mistake then saving on parts.

Just removing the heads of the engine is about 20 extra hours book time and removing the engine is about 20 hours so your looking at about close to 40 hours in labor just doing this whole process.

Looking at the data that's posted on Alldata, there's a lot of steps putting the engine back together, and it's really important the timing chain is lined up correctly. If it isn't your looking at paying 15k+ at least for a new engine (more like 20-25K for my motor since my mileage isn't that high)

All that's left is making custom top mount intercoolers, the guys at World Motorsports that did the top mounts for the CL65, didn't want to make any more sets unless they were sure they could sell a few, but they were very helpful giving the specs needed to make the coolers as well as where they bought there cores. If anyone want's to make there own set of top mounts, its not that expensive just need someone who is experience in wielding aluminium. The cores alone were about 350ish a pop.

Based on the info I gathered from people who have the same performance mods as I do for the 65 (downpipes/intakes/ecu/tcu) the 65 can put down 635-645 wheel which matches up my setup. Add billet turbos and it should jump to 690 based off 2 forum members I asked who has all the mods I mentioned plus the billets. So I have an idea what I need to pass.

Basically the only mod that isn't recorded is port and polish heads since this is where its going into the unknown with the M275 engine.

I'll post more updates as I get them, but almost done now, just waiting on Mercedes to deliver my parts from Germany.

F1BHP

Wow you are really taking that thing apart. Can't wait to see how it does on the strip and dyno. Great to see people going into the unknown. Good luck

RaceHorse

You guys have tackled a very big project which is progressing pretty quickly considering the platform. It should be cool to see what it can do. Hopefully it doesn't turn into a tuning nightmare sending the tranny into a limp mode frenzy.

V12TTenthusiast

Good thing it's winter if the tranny craps out I have time to reinforce it lol. I asked Shardul if he had any tranny issues on his billet S600 and so far none, and I didn't see Dynodaddy running any issues on his S600. So fingers crossed, but if I need the transmission to go under the knife it's fine. I'm at the point where I'm almost done with performance mods.

All I need need is trunk tank and put toe links in. I might do a CF drive shaft that will handle 1400 lbs of torque since I found a vendor willing to make one for about $1800. Too bad there big turbo kit that isn't 100% perfect yet. If one ever comes up I'll do it, but I would think a standalone ECU would be needed

V12TTenthusiast

Plus my LSD should help out alot lol, just intake and exhaust caused the traction control to go crazy, once the LSD was installed putting power to the ground was alot easier.

F1BHP

I might be in for a drive shaft if you go that route. Group buy get the price down.

Thericker

Hopefully I'm wrong but a previous Tuner Vadim, who pioneered big coolers/Scorps did a port/polish on heads ON a SL65, only gained 20-whp.. These aren't high revving engines, and even though they're V12's there not huge Displacement motors, and wont gain same kinda hp you see on big CID N/A BUIDS we top out at 5500- 5700 rpm's ETC.. Hope the entire combo makes you happy though

V12TTenthusiast

Even if its 20-30 rwhp, I'll be happy to be honest, I want to hit somewhere around 720-730 rwhp but even if I hit 710+ on 93 octane I wont complain. I want to hit that 830-840 with Q16/C16 and hit 1000 crank hp as my end result. So trying to be as creative as possible finding ways into squeeze more hp.

This is basically where trying to squeeze out any additional horsepower beyond simple mods start costing $$$. I was trying to see if maybe I could do something like a 90 mm TB or bore out the stock 82 mm tb, but I could prob only get maybe 2 more mms. The intake manifold wont let you go to 90 mm as the 55 guys are able to do since the tb goes straight into the intake manifold.

I just really wish there was a working big turbo kit that didn't add just 100 rwhp for the 65s. IMO 798 on a mix of pump/race gas that Speedriven had on that SL65 didn't seem worth the cost. I was kinda hoping after 3 years they made at least 900 rwhp on there kits cause I was ready to buy one. But who knows maybe in another year they will have one ready and I'll buy it or just start trying to make my own when I buy a 911 turbo next fall so I can have my SL65 sitting in the winter while I have another performance car to drive with AWD in case of any snow lol.

Plus if a big turbo kit does come out, those heads will maximize those gains so that's a plus lol, but just going into the unknown on this car will at least be fun to see what happens plus will give other people insight if the heads turn out to be a good mod to do if you have everything else done on the M275

Thericker

The guy w/ALL those mods I spoke of included upgraded turbs, he barely made a true 650-675 on correctly set dyno on 91 pump..

For 109-q16 you need much bigger turbos to reach 800 rwhp anything.. Sorry buddy, If it were that easy we'd ALL have 830-840 whp on q16 or 1000 BHP.. LOL REALITY hurts sometimes, mods don't just keep adding up it's give n' take.. Speedriven made 850 rwhp w/much bigger turbs & custom manifolds that are actually shorty headers.. OUR stock manifolds are the NEXT major bottleneck in making 1000 hp combined to turbs you need to move a ton more air IN & OUT..

V12TTenthusiast

I don't think 700 bhp isn't a far reach for 93 octane, a lot of people using such as myself and racehorse using the downpipes/intakes/ecu/tcu on a 65 AMG are hitting 635-645 with the same dyno parameters with ecu tune giving 565 with just ecu tune. I was talking to zak a few days ago about the downpipe/intake/ecu/tcu/billet turbos Speedriven did for him on his S65 AMG and he hit up to 690 rwhp on 93 octane so I could see a 700+ with port/polish heads on top of that.

As for Q16 who knows whats gonna happen but its worth to find out and see what needs to be done after that.

euphoriaDSM

Love seeing guys actually dig into these cars, GOOD JOB!!!!!!


I'm curious why no one has attempted building a new manifold then actually getting a normal (hotside turbo not built into the mani) turbo setup? Is there something preventing people from going that route? Going that direction opens the door to GIANT power. I've already talked to my friend that owns a local fab shop about dropping the car off in January when I start to travel again to build them for me and then run twin BorgWarner s374s.

V12TTenthusiast

Well there's little room in there from what I've seen, plus the turbo and manifold are a single piece so if your gonna use a new turbo you need to make new headers as well.

I've see three options done to the turbos

A few years back someone put a GT35 compressor wheel into a stock 600/65 housing, but he had so many issues running the turbo that he had to scrap it.

Then there was a few people doing completely new turbos and headers, dynodaddy did a custom precession setup and hit around 830+ whp if I remember right and managed to get a 10.6 on his CL600 but I haven't seen any updates after that run. Soulsearcher and V12speedgod did the old speedriven turbo setup and got around 750 rwhp on there 600s. Problem with this setup is tuning can take awhile to get right.

Finally the last option is use a billet wheel which Zaks, Shardul, Dynodaddy's S600, have used. From what I read this is the easiest setup up to do without the headache.

I'll glady do big turbos but I won't be the guinea pig on that project lol. I personally think a standalone ECU should be used to tune a big turbo kit on our cars.

I did head work cause I figured 1. if the engine has to come out for turbos might as well do heads while the engine is out and 2. if I ever do big turbos, these cylinder heads will maximize any gains.

I kinda wish there were cams I could put into the car to push out more power since the heads are off anyways, but I haven't seen anyone with a mod for our cars that replaced the cams.

AMG-Driver

Good Luck with your project and thanks for the pictures!

Please keep us updated with your Dyno-Run.

ttboost

Congrats on your build. I admire your enthusiasm. I have since lost the desire to keep modding my car. While I'm sure there is a 10.7/130 in it, as it sits, with the tune, it's WAY to heavy. You need exponentially more power to make this car go fast. I'd rather start with a lighter car. If I had bigger turbos and only went 10.6, I would crush my car. I think that you should have a different goal in mind for your target, rather than HP. In reality, all you have to do, when you are done, is tell your dyno operator how much power you want to make, make a pull, and he can print you up a sheet. I would think you would have a trap speed, etc, goal. Regardless, good luck and I am anxious for your results as well!!!

Havoc

Great project!!

Why not go with larger valves as well??

V12TTenthusiast

I know I could have done bigger valves but I figured for head work I should take it one step at a time since this is really going to unknown territory on the M275. I'm was thinking do a basic port/polish job 1st and see how it does with the billet turbos / downpipes / intakes / ecu / tcu / coolers since no one tried it with this combo.

Also I figured if I did it by steps I can track my progress better so if anyone else wanted to do head work on there 600/65s they at least have some info before tackling the project, but also its incase if a head was ever messed up. You know how the saying is bigger isn't necessarily better and could mess up the flow of the car. Plus replacement heads even from the junk yard isn't cheap but I have noticed they have dropped in price more.

I'll prob do more on them if I can remove them from the top without dropping the engine which looks like it is possible. If that is the case I'll save it for next winter. But if that ins't the case I'll prob do them in 2 years when I'm due for engine mounts again. Also by then I'll have another performance car and might pick up a 2009+ SL65 since these cars tank in prices year after year. If that's what happens I'll let my tuner start working on a big turbo kit and let the car sit as long as it needs to if no one has developed a big turbo kit with the tune 100% worked out.

But as of right now all I have planned is finishing up the current work on the car, get the black series kit that's been sitting in storage for months now waiting to be installed, re-barrel my 3 piece wheels to fit the new kit and trunk tank and toe links.

Only 3 extra mods I'll look to do is a carbon fiber 3 spoke steering to match the carbon fiber trim I ordered from FX last spring, a new driveshaft seeing how racehorse and I had the same mods putting 640-645 rwhp with downpipes/intakes/ecu/tcu/lsd and his driveshaft ripped apart at Atco, and a rear backup camera (I was browsing renntech's website a few days ago, looks like they managed to integrate a front and rear camera system to our older command units 03-08. Here's the link if anyone is curious: )

http://www.renntechmercedes.com/www/node/1338
http://www.renntechmercedes.com/www/node/1340

I'm prob gonna drive it a bit once the engine is ready depending how bad weather in DC gets, and then put the tank and links in since it shouldn't take long. But if weather is anything like last year I'll give it to the body shop but the kit in and wait till the snow and salt is gone and drive the car only during non winter months.

Even with all the other spare cars, I still prefer driving my SL65 the most and I drive it any chance I can get putting 15-20k miles on it per year, so even being close to 4 months without driving it is tough on me since personally I don't think any car delivers like a 65 AMG. But hopefully next year when I pick up either a good AWD performance car I'll have something to at least keep a smile on my face while the SL sits during the winter.

V12TTenthusiast

I'm sure you can get a 10.6 on an ECU/TCU tune alone, I mean there's CL65s doing 10.7-10.8 with much more weight. Your right horsepower isn't my only goal, I want to take it to the track as well but I wanted to do something not maybe people did on this platform. I personally love the engine of this car and I'll drive it till the wheels drop. But I know what you mean going with the lighter car option. I use to have a 996 911 C4 about 4 years ago, and thinking about looking for an RS Audi since I never owned one before or an early 997 911 Turbo and tinker with one of those and have something AWD for light snow.

Thericker

Now you're jumping all over the place 1st you thought you'd easily see710-730 rwhp on 93 pump w/above mods??? w/ BHP? yes NO prob.. then you figured 830-840 rwhp & hit 1000 BHP on Q16?? NOT w/your mod list above period.. now you changed ALL this to.. I WOULDN'T disagree w/that projection for said mods whatsoever.. I guess you just misspoke w/WHP vs BHP

Either way, good luck I hope you reach your goals!

V12TTenthusiast

What I was trying to say is 700+ whp on 93 octane I don't think is a impossible with this setup seeing that Speedriven got 690 whp on the S65 they did for Zaks recently, but my end goal is trying to hit 830-840 whp. Even with Q16 I don't think I'll hit that number but at least it will give me an idea how much closer I need to hit that number and look for other ways to squeeze out more hp. Being realistic Q16 may only give me really high 700s and maybe if I'm lucky break 800. But who knows what better flow with billet turbos and heads will do.

I'm not a machine or engine expert but from what I've been reading and asking people who do head work, cylinder heads act more as a multiplier and supports other mods, cause heads alone won't do much unless there's other mods putting more air in.

But to be clear 710-730 whp on 93 octane I wouldn't be that surprised, I'm thinking it will be 710-720 but who knows as for what Q16 will do I don't think it will hit close to 830-840 but once I see everything in action and see what race fuel does I'll look for those last 50-70 whps I need to hit my goal.

Thericker

trust me you should lower your expectations.. comparing cars that use dif dynos dif weather etc etc.. But you'll see I've been studying these v12tt's for 6+ years your expectations aren't realistic.. Speedriven made 840-850 w/custom shorty manifolds, gt30 turbs 22-23 psi full speedriven Big Cooler kit, dwn pipes, no cats, RACE fuel/mix rear reservoir, full exhaust, ECU/TCU, CAI ETC ETC .. you wil see 600-640 on 93 & 675-690 tops on Q16

Billet turbo cartridge swaps add at most on 65 engine 45-50 whp...

As I said ported/polish heads on low revving motors don't do squat compared to 6500-8000 rpm N/A builds just hate seeing guys add all the mods together thinking it's a linear type of hp gain after they pay the bill.. then run it on a 3rd party dyno or track & see no where near 800 anything whp wise.. Even on Q16

ttboost

Agreed. And porting and polishing forced induction heads is all but a waste of time. I mean it won't hurt, but you'll never see or feel the results. Turn the boost up 1/4 of a PSI and that will over come any flow issues...

AMGfan

Good luck to you on your quest...I'm personally happy with the stock power and even happier with the mild ECU/TCU upgrade. Just love the power delivery...

More power to you (pun intended )...I know where you are going as far as uncharted territory...been there and can appreciate your patience and perseverance...you need both with the time and money you will invariably wave goodbye to...

PS I don't think guys here are giving you a hard time...just folks looking out for you. In the end...your car and money. All the best.

Thericker

Exactly..

AMGfan

Sean...I already went full on insanity on my GTR so having a "nearly stock" SL65 is a blessing. Being at 1600whp is scary fun but is always a ticking time bomb EVEN if you think you have all bases covered. Now I'm just lightening up the build by 400lbs with a GTR with every body panel dry pre preg carbon fiber.

Thericker

Jon, you've paved new roads on soo many platforms Driving a 1600 whp GTR is def bucket list territory