SLS Black Series

[Jycke]

This oughta be interesting http://www.worldcarfans.com/11109193...ries-confirmed

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[_AMG_]

Probably gonna cost as much as the SL65BS.

[loudandheard]

Read that it was not coming to the US.

[Carac]

Yeah, at least $300k+

[BenzoBoi]

GAME ON!~! :zoom :

[IAA-C63]

Given the price of the regular SLS, you'd think it would already be cranked up to the max. If I had an SLS, I'd be a little pissed to hear that MB "held back" on the SLS and are coming out with an SLS BS. True, even the Veyron has a Super Sport version, but you know what I mean ...

[modoindustries]

Originally Posted by IAA-C63

Given the price of the regular SLS, you'd think it would already be cranked up to the max. If I had an SLS, I'd be a little pissed to hear that MB "held back" on the SLS and are coming out with an SLS BS. True, even the Veyron has a Super Sport version, but you know what I mean ...

Are you upset the iPhone 5 is coming out?

[IAA-C63]

Originally Posted by modoindustries

Are you upset the iPhone 5 is coming out?

A little ... but my point is that a $200K SLS should already be as good as MB can make it.

[Carac]

Originally Posted by IAA-C63

Given the price of the regular SLS, you'd think it would already be cranked up to the max. If I had an SLS, I'd be a little pissed to hear that MB "held back" on the SLS and are coming out with an SLS BS. True, even the Veyron has a Super Sport version, but you know what I mean ...

Black Series are to their AMG counterparts as the GT3 RS is to the 911, they are purpose built track-day cars that just happen to be civil enough to be driven daily. The SLS is a GT car that you can comfortably drive to a track day, be respectable around it (i.e. not meant to be direct competition for the MP4-12C or the 458 Italia), then drive it home. The SLS Black Series will basically be a wide-body road going version of the SLS GT3 that still has creature comforts like Nav, B&O stereo, etc. There's a place for both.

[IAA-C63]

Originally Posted by Carac

Black Series are to their AMG counterparts as the GT3 RS is to the 911, they are purpose built track-day cars that just happen to be civil enough to be driven daily. The SLS is a GT car that you can comfortably drive to a track day, be respectable around it (i.e. not meant to be direct competition for the MP4-12C or the 458 Italia), then drive it home. The SLS Black Series will basically be a wide-body road going version of the SLS GT3 that still has creature comforts like Nav, B&O stereo, etc. There's a place for both.

I see what you mean and you may be right but, in my mind, the SLS is meant to be an all-out performance car which makes very limited compromise to work as a daily driver ... maybe that's not what MB/AMG had in mind when they designed it.

It would be interesting to know what sort of person buys an SLS (besides being affluent).

BTW, I've driven an SLS on the track, and I liked it, but I wasn't blown away to the extent I expected (though the sound is about as badass as a car can get ).

[Carac]

Originally Posted by IAA-C63

It would be interesting to know what sort of person buys an SLS (besides being affluent).

Well, I have one on order so I guess that means me. I wouldn't call myself affluent, just hard working and committed. I have been setting aside a portion of my disposable income for over a year and when I take delivery in Late March/Early April 2012 I will be putting a third or so down on it. Then financing the rest, so my payments won't change much from the CLK Black I have. I consider affluent meaning you're able to just walk into the dealer and cut a check.

The reason for moving to the SLS is that I'm single, child-free, and relatively young compared to most SLS buyers so Carpe Diem. The CLK Black has been a blast but it feels like I bought a Kentucky Derby race horse and only use it run errands, leisurely rides, etc. Kind of feels like a waste since I don't get to track it as much as I would like due to work. Also, it's rarity makes you feel guilty for putting dull interstate miles on it.

I've driven a SLS around Road Atlanta as well as on the street. It's a car I can see keeping for 10+ years and putting 100k+ miles on it (like I did with my E46 M3). I understand why they are doing a Black Series and fault no-one that buys one, but the regular SLS is enough for me. The CLK Black at 507hp already has enough power to get squirrely under WOT passing someone, and to break traction at 70mph on a damp surface if you gun the throttle.

I love the brutal and authoritative sound of the M156/157 engine. So much so that I find R8's, 911's, etc lacking in the powerful sound department. Don't get me wrong, they sound great, just not the same as a large-displacement AMG V8.

The only thing that really interests me about the prospect of the SLS Black is the wide-body. I love wide-body cars. Otherwise the standard SLS is everything I want in a supercar, including daft doors.

[Sher Judge]

Will this be one of the "Baddest" Benzes after the SLR?

I wonder?

[abiazis]

Thought the "end all" was the SLS AMG......

A thought......Maybe ALL future AMG cars should be the "end all" and built like the Black Series cars going forward as far as specs and become more limited in production and higher priced for exclusivity.......

Higher pricing/profit for MB would be realized per unit sold, better resale for owners, less depreciation over time, real instead of hyped exclusivity, etc..

People would be more attracted to the AMG brand versus other limited production performance brands, pay more if AMG was really exclusive and held its value better.....

It is not like Mercedes doesn't sell enough cars......and total AMG car sales must be a small percentage, albeit more profitable due to higher price points, I would guess.

They are also "halo cars" that are "walking advertising" for MB performance expertise, if you will...and would be more so, if AMG was at the very top of the MB product portfolio.........

AMG owners wouldn't be disappointed when a Black Series supersedes their expensive purchase and makes their AMG essentially a midrange or run of the mill MB for lack of a better word.......

There are more positives for AMG owners with more exclusivity and also it would be better for MB in the long run as far as having an upscale performance division that really stood out by itself and was more coveted, instead of diluting the AMG brand with more models within a model range.....

It would be interesting to analyze the repeat sales for AMG, or whether people flee to another marque due to feeling deceived when a Black Series in their model is launched or getting killed on depreciation because the exclusivity is not really there versus another marque, etc...

But maybe the recent Ducati alliance is supposed to do the trick for making AMG a more revered brand from MB marketing experts........but it certainly doesn't address the ongoing shortcomings of AMG ownership.....

[Jakpro1]

Since this is supposed to be "the best of the best" from Benz (since SLR is gone) I would have liked to see a TT 6.3 with mid to upper 600s hp wise.

Just dreaming though.

[CL600CK60]

My thoughts exactly. Not even a V12 under the hood for $200k.

Originally Posted by IAA-C63

A little ... but my point is that a $200K SLS should already be as good as MB can make it.

[AugustWest]

I have now put 11k miles on my SLS, so it is very broken in. I drive it fast. 0 to 60 is 3.5s on my clock and the wheels can spin in first and second gear, even though I have already replaced the rear tires. My point is that the car is really fast. Much faster would make the car kind of dangerous. So I am really happy with the car as is. Even in LA, this puppy stands out against the crowd, but in a subtle sophisticated way. The silly door are actually very practical, as the don't stick out far when opened.

On another note, I've been pulled over four times for speeding, but issued zero tickets!! You just can't give a ticket to the bat mobile, I guess. It's kind of blowing my mind. Time to slow down, probably.

[callmiro]

[Ferri]

Originally Posted by abiazis

Thought the "end all" was the SLS AMG......

A thought......Maybe ALL future AMG cars should be the "end all" and built like the Black Series cars going forward as far as specs and become more limited in production and higher priced for exclusivity.......

Higher pricing/profit for MB would be realized per unit sold, better resale for owners, less depreciation over time, real instead of hyped exclusivity, etc..

People would be more attracted to the AMG brand versus other limited production performance brands, pay more if AMG was really exclusive and held its value better.....

It is not like Mercedes doesn't sell enough cars......and total AMG car sales must be a small percentage, albeit more profitable due to higher price points, I would guess.

They are also "halo cars" that are "walking advertising" for MB performance expertise, if you will...and would be more so, if AMG was at the very top of the MB product portfolio.........

AMG owners wouldn't be disappointed when a Black Series supersedes their expensive purchase and makes their AMG essentially a midrange or run of the mill MB for lack of a better word.......

There are more positives for AMG owners with more exclusivity and also it would be better for MB in the long run as far as having an upscale performance division that really stood out by itself and was more coveted, instead of diluting the AMG brand with more models within a model range.....

It would be interesting to analyze the repeat sales for AMG, or whether people flee to another marque due to feeling deceived when a Black Series in their model is launched or getting killed on depreciation because the exclusivity is not really there versus another marque, etc...

But maybe the recent Ducati alliance is supposed to do the trick for making AMG a more revered brand from MB marketing experts........but it certainly doesn't address the ongoing shortcomings of AMG ownership.....

I would understand your frustration as an owner, but a business is about generating as much volume and profit as possible with each line. If they could have sold 3,000 SL Black Series in 2009, they would have. They just knew the market could not take more. Probably there are going to be just 300 SLS Blacks, at $350k each at least. The press will be split on them and probably consider them great at the track, but in the end, the regular one would make much more sense due to practicality and still one hell of a muscle. Making every AMG in the caliber of Black Series would alienate probably 80 percent of current AMG customers (and satisfy only fans who read forums and rarely buy new). AMG owners still want a Mercedes, just one with more of everything.

[abiazis]

You are probably right that 80% of the current AMG owners would not want a Black Series type of vehicle.....so selling more cars via added differentiation within a brand probably is valid as far as increasing sales on the short term...

It also might be that a majority of AMG owners buy an AMG from the perspective of separating themselves from the regular Mercedes owner, primarily for the snob appeal of owning a higher priced MB, for lack of a better word.......not for the performance difference......

I also wonder if most AMG owners actually know what the capabilities of their cars actually are and probably would be satisfied with a regular Mercedes for their everyday driving purposes....

If Mercedes did sell 3,000 SLSs in the US in the first year versus the approximate 500 or so they did, I think the car would not be perceived to be as special and I don't think Mercedes would want that at all........

I would also hope that people would not want to spend $ 220K for a car, that was not so exclusive, at 3,000 units, depreciating to $ 125K in 3-4 years and as a result they certainly would not want to buy another special series from Mercedes.......

Used SLSs in the US at a limited production of less than 500 cars are now are selling for $ 180K with less than 3,000 miles........

It will be interesting to see how many SLS owners buy another Mercedes for their next special car purchase......

The other factor is that people that buy SLSs at that price point only want the newest thing to stand out from the crowd.

SLS buyers are not probably not ultimately as brand loyal as the base MB customer and will go buy a Ferrari California - "Platinum Series" for their next purchase, etc...

It seems that further differentiation within a brand or model is going on with all upscale and performance manufacturers, i.e. Porsche, Bentley, Ferrari, etc...and Mercedes is also in the fray with their Black Series cars.....

[93 Octane ABC]

Can't wait to see how the SLS Black series will do! It should be faster than the Lambo Gallardo LP560 and Ferrari 458 Italia from all speeds! Maybe even the SLR Mclaren?

[Carac]

Originally Posted by abiazis

You are probably right that 80% of the current AMG owners would not want a Black Series type of vehicle.....so selling more cars via added differentiation within a brand probably is valid as far as increasing sales on the short term...

It also might be that a majority of AMG owners buy an AMG from the perspective of separating themselves from the regular Mercedes owner, primarily for the snob appeal of owning a higher priced MB, for lack of a better word.......not for the performance difference......

I also wonder if most AMG owners actually know what the capabilities of their cars actually are and probably would be satisfied with a regular Mercedes for their everyday driving purposes....

It will be interesting to see how many SLS owners buy another Mercedes for their next special car purchase......

The other factor is that people that buy SLSs at that price point only want the newest thing to stand out from the crowd.

SLS buyers are not probably not ultimately as brand loyal as the base MB customer and will go buy a Ferrari California - "Platinum Series" for their next purchase, etc...

It seems that further differentiation within a brand or model is going on with all upscale and performance manufacturers, i.e. Porsche, Bentley, Ferrari, etc...and Mercedes is also in the fray with their Black Series cars.....

I would argue that all of the "special editions" of models some manufacturers are rolling out tend to dilute the meaning of the word "special." For example, there are at least 10+ different versions of the Gallardo. The first of which was actually called the "Special Edition" back in 2005 during the initial production year, of which they made 500 with a black roof and special rims. How many people do you hear saying "God I want a 2005 Gallardo SE" right now? At one point I believe there were close to 40 different versions of the 911 available to order from a dealer. There is something to be said for moderation. Which is why I commend AMG for their past stance of "we're building this many, for one model year, and that's it" with Black Series cars. It's what has kept the CLK Black's resale value about the same since Spring 2010.

I believe the production numbers for the 2011 SLS were at 1200+ made by summer this year and as we can see, a good portion of those most recent orders have been made by dealers, not by customers, hence the inventory.

As far as my brand loyalty goes, if AMG stays on their current course, I will not be jumping ship for a while and plan on keeping the SLS for the foreseeable future. The fact that they don't feel the need to fiddle with it or release special editions every 3-4 months increases this feeling of wanting to retain it for a long time.

AMG has stated that they only plan to build the SLS for 3 years, 4 if you include the E-Cell version. Which is just fine with me.

[Jakpro1]

HEY, nowwwww we're talking. All rumors coming out this week are that AMG is gonna crank up the 6.3 to 650hp!!!

Now THAT is gonna be come car!

Can't wait to hear it!

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/repo...000-79237.html

[dharrar]

I read August West's comment about spinning the wheels in 1st & 2nd gear. Is this using race start? I am asking since aside of using RS I cannot spin my wheels, even from a dead stop. I did have the transmission control module upgrade done that largely eliminated the hesitation. But even with traction control off, the wheels do not spin. I will be interested in hearing more from him.

[Carac]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11110193...rst-time-spied

[AMG Dictator]

Originally Posted by abiazis

You are probably right that 80% of the current AMG owners would not want a Black Series type of vehicle.....so selling more cars via added differentiation within a brand probably is valid as far as increasing sales on the short term...

It also might be that a majority of AMG owners buy an AMG from the perspective of separating themselves from the regular Mercedes owner, primarily for the snob appeal of owning a higher priced MB, for lack of a better word.......not for the performance difference......

I also wonder if most AMG owners actually know what the capabilities of their cars actually are and probably would be satisfied with a regular Mercedes for their everyday driving purposes....

If Mercedes did sell 3,000 SLSs in the US in the first year versus the approximate 500 or so they did, I think the car would not be perceived to be as special and I don't think Mercedes would want that at all........

I would also hope that people would not want to spend $ 220K for a car, that was not so exclusive, at 3,000 units, depreciating to $ 125K in 3-4 years and as a result they certainly would not want to buy another special series from Mercedes.......

Used SLSs in the US at a limited production of less than 500 cars are now are selling for $ 180K with less than 3,000 miles........

It will be interesting to see how many SLS owners buy another Mercedes for their next special car purchase......

The other factor is that people that buy SLSs at that price point only want the newest thing to stand out from the crowd.

SLS buyers are not probably not ultimately as brand loyal as the base MB customer and will go buy a Ferrari California - "Platinum Series" for their next purchase, etc...

It seems that further differentiation within a brand or model is going on with all upscale and performance manufacturers, i.e. Porsche, Bentley, Ferrari, etc...and Mercedes is also in the fray with their Black Series cars.....

IMHO, you may not know other AMG owners as well as you think you do.

You comment that SLS's with 3,000 miles are selling for $180K and make that sound like a bad thing? Many of the SLS's sold with a sticker between $190K and $200K.

Let's be honest, a 5 to 10% hit on a 200K AMG? I don't know how you can't be happy with the way these cars are holding up when a 200K SL65 like you have was worth $150K or less with 3K miles.

Seems you might be a bit bitter on this subject. Every SLS owner that I know appears to be very happy with their purchase.

Just my .02