'99 C43 v. '02 E55 Impressions

[SleepersRock]

Got a couple of thing done at the dealer by my best friend who works there such as the air filters, instrament cluster, and AC recharge. The air filters made a big difference as when we pulled the airbox off, the filters were black and we could scoop handfuls of dirt out of it. The power is much stronger now, and the car pulls much better. Still need to dyno it as I can't yet peel the tires out from a standstill with ESP off and I am concerned that the car isn't making stock power. Anyway, to the point of this thread. My friend at the dealer has a '99 C43 which he graciously let me borrow while my car was in the shop. That C43 is frickin fast, and feels much faster than my E55 up to about 100. After 100 the E feels much faster. From 0-60, I think the C would win it, from 20-80 I think the E would win it. Can't speak for top speed since it wasn't my car I only took it up to 130. Again acceleration after 100 was not on par with the E. Not sure if this is due to enine size or mileage (E-58K C-101K) The steering is much tighter (which I like) versus the E which feels much too loose and jiggly. It almost feels as if the C43 does not have power steering. This makes a huge difference in control while whipping through traffic a high speeds as the C feels more precise and allowed me to carve through much better. Brake response was much more linear than the E. The E brake pedal feels mushy until about half then it really bites down hard. The C brakes were strong but didn't feel as strong, but since its lighter I guess it doesn't have to be. Comfort wise the E beat the C hands down. I'm a big guy (5'10, 230lb with very broad shoulders) and the C felt a little too cramped. The seats were too firm to use as a daily driver for my commute, but would be very nice for short highway/street runs. They are however perfect for my friend who is 6'2 and 160 lbs soaking wet. All in all, it was a fun car and great chance to test the differences between 2 AMGs. Overall, the C feels like a sports car while the E feels like a big sedan with mad power. Do note, that my E is bone stock, but the C had some cosmetic mods and may have had the ECU tuned. Happy driving to all.

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[AndyW210E55]

My 97 E50 could beat a C43. I know what you mean by feels faster though. It's because of its smaller demensions, but trust me my E50 ran 13.8-14.1 constistantly and a friend with a 98 C43 ran 14.4-15.0 consistently. I ran a G tech stock run sunday in the mid low 13s all the time. A lot of it could be the fact that its a just different car and you are used to yours. I got in a friends 03' Mustang GT and it seemed really fast, but when we drag raced we were neck and neck.

The C43 dosen't handle better (matter of opinion), it handles differently. It also depends on the driver. I always made good times on the ring in my E. C43 couldn't touch me on the straight aways.

The steering is tighter. But I have no problem wrangling the W210 amg.

The Cs brakes are not as good as the 210s so when hard cornering there is no advantage. it takes corners better, but brakes earlier.

It would be interesting to run a C43 and E55 on the track with the same driver and see what gets a better time, i still say 55 hands down.

I only got 5 days with my E55. Its a world away from the E50 so i can imagine the e55 would completely stomp the C43. I had to come back to Germany and I won't be back to the US until sept. I already miss my E55.

I was set on a C43 because i wanted something different (never owned a w202) but decided the E55 was better.

ANDY

[Mr Nu]

I think Andy does have some very valid points about the two models... without doubt they are vastly different in terms of driver appeal and dynamics.

I am fortunate to have a W210 E36 and a W202 C43 on the drive and they both appeal in many different ways. The C43, in my scenario is way faster than the E36 (obviously an E55 would be different scenario altogether) and feels more track biased. Very easy to control on the limit with great turn in, great feedback, very tight chassis and amazing brakes – but on the downside it is very harsh in terms of how it rides (bear in mind UK roads are 80% rubbish).

Where as the E36 is still amazingly fast, effortless and extremely comfortable... I wouldn't think twice doing 500 miles in my E' but wouldn't be to pleased to undertake the same route in the C43. I know in the E' I can do massive miles get out the other end and feel as fresh as when I started, the C43 is more focused.

Both are turly exceptional vehicles that I dearly love for different reasons, I guess its a case of what mood you're in i.e. a wolf in sheeps clothing in the E36 or a wolf in wolfs clothing in the C43.

Have to say the temptation of an E55 grows stronger on a daily basis though... for me being 6'6'' and a of solid stature it is perfect, if it combines or betters the pace of C43 then I have found my perfect vehicle!

Nath

[ProjectC55]

Originally Posted by SleepersRock

Got a couple of thing done at the dealer by my best friend who works there such as the air filters, instrament cluster, and AC recharge. The air filters made a big difference as when we pulled the airbox off, the filters were black and we could scoop handfuls of dirt out of it. The power is much stronger now, and the car pulls much better. Still need to dyno it as I can't yet peel the tires out from a standstill with ESP off and I am concerned that the car isn't making stock power. Anyway, to the point of this thread. My friend at the dealer has a '99 C43 which he graciously let me borrow while my car was in the shop.

That C43 is frickin fast, and feels much faster than my E55 up to about 100. After 100 the E feels much faster. From 0-60, I think the C would win it, from 20-80 I think the E would win it. Can't speak for top speed since it wasn't my car I only took it up to 130. Again acceleration after 100 was not on par with the E. Not sure if this is due to enine size or mileage (E-58K C-101K)

The steering is much tighter (which I like) versus the E which feels much too loose and jiggly. It almost feels as if the C43 does not have power steering. This makes a huge difference in control while whipping through traffic a high speeds as the C feels more precise and allowed me to carve through much better.

Brake response was much more linear than the E. The E brake pedal feels mushy until about half then it really bites down hard. The C brakes were strong but didn't feel as strong, but since its lighter I guess it doesn't have to be.

Comfort wise the E beat the C hands down. I'm a big guy (5'10, 230lb with very broad shoulders) and the C felt a little too cramped. The seats were too firm to use as a daily driver for my commute, but would be very nice for short highway/street runs. They are however perfect for my friend who is 6'2 and 160 lbs soaking wet.

All in all, it was a fun car and great chance to test the differences between 2 AMGs. Overall, the C feels like a sports car while the E feels like a big sedan with mad power. Do note, that my E is bone stock, but the C had some cosmetic mods and may have had the ECU tuned.

Happy driving to all.

Excellent write up!


Here is my opinion.

I dropped a 5.5l motor in my C43(akaC55) because to me after driving a W210 E55 I felt it was faster all around compared to the C43. From 0-60 and from 0-100, the engine or should I say W210 E55 just pulled alot more ferociously than my 4.3L motor. I was truly convinced I had to get an E55 or find this motor.

The brakes are from the W210 E50 and the tranny is from the S600. Not a bad combo for a suped up C-class and a serious upgrade from the C36 if you ask me.

I could not afford a 2002 W210 E55 at the time so I figured I'd try something pretty unique. Get a 5.5L motor from an E55 and here you have it,a W202 C43 converted to a 5.5L W202. it is now a true BEAST as was the original W202C55 which were in Europe only. This car is a project still going on as I am now contemplating putting on the Kleeman S/C or just popping off the cylinder heads for a nice port and polish.

The only other mod I would consider is putting on Brembo GT brakes all around.

Finally out of all three I think I'd rather a W208 CLK55 and the W210 E55 would be following 2nd with my C43(due to it's uniqness(5.5L motor) in a whole other class. Perhaps in the same class as the CLK55 luxury sports wise. Now she's built to annhilate E39 M5's and give modded SRT8's a run for the $$$$.

[SleepersRock]

Originally Posted by ProjectC55

Excellent write up!


Here is my opinion.

I dropped a 5.5l motor in my C43(akaC55) because to me after driving a W210 E55 I felt it was faster all around compared to the C43. From 0-60 and from 0-100, the engine or should I say W210 E55 just pulled alot more ferociously than my 4.3L motor. I was truly convinced I had to get an E55 or find this motor.

The brakes are from the W210 E50 and the tranny is from the S600. Not a bad combo for a suped up C-class and a serious upgrade from the C36 if you ask me.

I could not afford a 2002 W210 E55 at the time so I figured I'd try something pretty unique. Get a 5.5L motor from an E55 and here you have it,a W202 C43 converted to a 5.5L W202. it is now a true BEAST as was the original W202C55 which were in Europe only. This car is a project still going on as I am now contemplating putting on the Kleeman S/C or just popping off the cylinder heads for a nice port and polish.

The only other mod I would consider is putting on Brembo GT brakes all around.

Finally out of all three I think I'd rather a W208 CLK55 and the W210 E55 would be following 2nd with my C43(due to it's uniqness(5.5L motor) in a whole other class. Perhaps in the same class as the CLK55 luxury sports wise. Now she's built to annhilate E39 M5's and give modded SRT8's a run for the $$$$.

ProjectC55, I almost bought a W202 conversion similar to the one you had when I was looking for an AMG about a year ago. My friend at MB severely discouraged me from doing so and since he knows MB better than I do I took his advice. I do see your how your car could be a monster though if we took my engine and dropped it into my friends car.

FYI, I did the tranny reset last night and man oh man did that make a huge difference with the new filters. I had tried the tranny resest with the old filters, but didn't see much improvement.

I have been complaining in some previous posts that I have not been able to peel out from a dead stop, but that was absolutely no problem last night!! The ESP still kicks in which is weak, but at least I feel the car is doing what it's supposed to do.

I do now feel that my car may be faster at all speed and at all accleration points than my friends C43, but I guess I will just have to re-test.

[NitrogenBalance]

Originally Posted by AndyW210E55

The steering is tighter. But I have no problem wrangling the W210 amg.

The Cs brakes are not as good as the 210s so when hard cornering there is no advantage. it takes corners better, but brakes earlier.


ANDY

Don't they have the same brakes? E50/C43? If so than the C should come to a hault a little quicker due to being a smaller/lighter car. I mean wasn't one of the C43's tradmarks amazing breaking power? When I first bought my car every aspect of it was eclipsed by it's braking power. My car hauls down to a stop very impressivly. I'd be surprised if the E50 stopped much quicker, I could be wrong though.

I personally think the W202 was one of the best platforms that AMG ever used. Especially if you want to build one up. Small car + big motor.

.....C55....been thinking about the 5.5 swap, maybe I'll get an itch this winter.

[SleepersRock]

Originally Posted by NitrogenBalance

Don't they have the same brakes? E50/C43? If so than the C should come to a hault a little quicker due to being a smaller/lighter car. I mean wasn't one of the C43's tradmarks amazing breaking power? When I first bought my car every aspect of it was eclipsed by it's braking power. My car hauls down to a stop very impressivly. I'd be surprised if the E50 stopped much quicker, I could be wrong though.

I personally think the W202 was one of the best platforms that AMG ever used. Especially if you want to build one up. Small car + big motor.

.....C55....been thinking about the 5.5 swap, maybe I'll get an itch this winter.

I see in your sig that your C43 is supercharged. What kind of power figures are you putting down?

[NitrogenBalance]

Originally Posted by SleepersRock

I see in your sig that your C43 is supercharged. What kind of power figures are you putting down?

Last dyno I made 342whp and 370whtq with no other mods. I've had a few things done since then so I would guess a tiny bit more now. Add the 20% or whatever the drivetrain takes out and thats what the car is making at the motor.

[ECTurboGSX]

Originally Posted by NitrogenBalance

Don't they have the same brakes? E50/C43? If so than the C should come to a hault a little quicker due to being a smaller/lighter car. I mean wasn't one of the C43's tradmarks amazing breaking power? When I first bought my car every aspect of it was eclipsed by it's braking power. My car hauls down to a stop very impressivly. I'd be surprised if the E50 stopped much quicker, I could be wrong though.

The C43 braked from 60 mph in ~114ft during road tests when it came out in 1998. That braking distance is better than a Ferrari F355, which was the industry standard at the time.

[NitrogenBalance]

Originally Posted by ECTurboGSX

The C43 braked from 60 mph in ~114ft during road tests when it came out in 1998. That braking distance is better than a Ferrari F355, which was the industry standard at the time.

WERD

[ProjectC55]

I was with SleeperX last nite,I had two 07 RS4's and a 06 CLK55 for dinner last night!! Ran for over a mile WOT!! They were like this and gave me the thumbs up. Cool guys! The W202 was made to have a 5.5L M113 What was AMG MB thinking! Not taking anything away from the 4.3L motor but the 5.5L motor completely transforms the car.

[NitrogenBalance]

Originally Posted by ProjectC55

I was with SleeperX last nite,I had two 07 RS4's and a 06 CLK55 for dinner last night!! Ran for over a mile WOT!! They were like this and gave me the thumbs up. Cool guys! The W202 was made to have a 5.5L M113 What was AMG MB thinking! Not taking anything away from the 4.3L motor but the 5.5L motor completely transforms the car.

Damn. I keep reading this statement and each and ever time I see a 5.5 up for sale I get closer and closer to doing it. This is a problem....

[ProjectC55]

Originally Posted by NitrogenBalance

Damn. I keep reading this statement and each and ever time I see a 5.5 up for sale I get closer and closer to doing it. This is a problem....

LOL! A good problem.

Also don't get me wrng those RS4's (V8) are quick as hell out the hole and run pretty good top end. The 06 W209 CLK55 was quick also. But when you put the 5.5l motor in the lighter W202 body(C43) you have created a tru monster to me that makes me forget all about wanting to own the W210 E55. The only car I'd take over mine is a W208 CLK55 or I'd have to drop the 5.5l motor in a W208 CLK 430. Which I am highly considering to do if I pic one up as a 2nd MB. Just have to locate another 5.5l motor.

[JamE55]

Originally Posted by ProjectC55

This car is a project still going on as I am now contemplating putting on the Kleeman S/C or just popping off the cylinder heads for a nice port and polish.

The only other mod I would consider is putting on Brembo GT brakes all around.

You might be hard pressed in finding the s/c kit for this application since Kleemann has discontinued it and the company who mfgs the s/c is no longer in business.

P & P is another way to go. I've been experimenting on this for a while but don't have time for it. If you do the P & P can you let me know what your before and after dyno is. Would really appreciate it.

Brembo GT's =

[ProjectC55]

Originally Posted by JamE55

You might be hard pressed in finding the s/c kit for this application since Kleemann has discontinued it and the company who mfgs the s/c is no longer in business.

P & P is another way to go. I've been experimenting on this for a while but don't have time for it. If you do the P & P can you let me know what your before and after dyno is. Would really appreciate it.

Brembo GT's =

Yes I heard that the original S/C used by Kleemann is not produced anymore unfortunately!

However the only other option I might have is to go centrifical.

As far as the P&P is concerned I'll definitely keep you posted. This would more than likely be the next thing I do and the cheaper alternative I have for now. There is a big thread in the C32 section where a fellow over there got a nice P&P job and seems to be having driveability issues perhaps due to tuning. I don't think this will be such a big problem with my N/A application.

PTE will be the man to watch on this as he is going with a KLEEMANN S/C setup on his W209 CLK55 and using Ported and polished heads. I just have to chk with PTE on this. One of my concerns would be the A/F ratio and ECU tuning afterwards. Staytuned.

[SleepersRock]

Originally Posted by ECTurboGSX

The C43 braked from 60 mph in ~114ft during road tests when it came out in 1998. That braking distance is better than a Ferrari F355, which was the industry standard at the time.

Thats pretty damn impressive. Anybody know what the rotor sizes on the W210 E55 and C43's?

[ECTurboGSX]

Originally Posted by SleepersRock

Thats pretty damn impressive. Anybody know what the rotor sizes on the W210 E55 and C43's?

Alright, since you asked for numbers, I dug through my stash to find some numbers.

1998 C43
Front Brakes: 13.2"
Rear Brakes: 11.8"

Claims:
Mercedes 62-0 mph : 131 ft.
FantasyCars.com 60-0 mph : 112 ft. (The images are of a C36, so I don't know that I trust this site)

Some comparos:
Car and Driver 70-0 mph
1999 C43 : 159 ft.
1999 E55 : 156 ft.
1999 Ferrari 360 Modena : 173 ft.
1997 Lotus Esprit V8 : 165 ft. (This has 4-pot Brembos)
1999 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 : 160 ft.

Road and Track 60-0 mph | 80-0 mph
1998 C43 : 123 ft. | 219 ft.
2000 E55 : 122 ft. | 208 ft.
1997 Ferrari F355 : 122 ft. | 219 ft.
1999 Ferrari 360 : 110 ft. | 188 ft.
2001 Lamborghini Diablo 6.0 120 ft. | 203 ft.
1995 Porsche 993TT : 116 ft. | 199 ft.
1999 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 : 126 ft. | 207 ft.
1999 Porsche 911 GT1: 98 ft. | 154 ft.

Car and Driver Sports Sedans Test (September 1999)
70 - 0 mph braking:
Audi S4 169 ft.
BMW M3 167 ft.
Merc C43 159 ft.
Saab 9-3 Vig 172 ft.


Someone else can chime in on the rotor size for the E55.

[ProjectC55]

Hmmm,I'm surprised the braking distance for the 55 is shorter than the 43's.

Here's something I thought about. If in 1998 AMG had sent the W202C class here with 5.5L motor the car would have set a tremendous benchmark back then. Yes or No?

BMW would have had some serious thinking to do for the M5 back in 98 when they thought of putting the 5.0L V8 in their E39 car and selling it here in the US in late 2k. The E39 m5 was pretty much an after thought when they developed the 540i. They thought this car was going to be it till MB came out with the E55 in 1998. Then they said the V8 5.0L motor was a go ,for the E39 body.

Too bad the W202 C55 was not mass produced to really stir things up for BMW.

[PJmak]

Originally Posted by AndyW210E55

My 97 E50 could beat a C43. I know what you mean by feels faster though. It's because of its smaller demensions, but trust me my E50 ran 13.8-14.1 constistantly and a friend with a 98 C43 ran 14.4-15.0 consistently. I ran a G tech stock run sunday in the mid low 13s all the time. A lot of it could be the fact that its a just different car and you are used to yours. I got in a friends 03' Mustang GT and it seemed really fast, but when we drag raced we were neck and neck.

The C43 dosen't handle better (matter of opinion), it handles differently. It also depends on the driver. I always made good times on the ring in my E. C43 couldn't touch me on the straight aways.

The steering is tighter. But I have no problem wrangling the W210 amg.

The Cs brakes are not as good as the 210s so when hard cornering there is no advantage. it takes corners better, but brakes earlier.

It would be interesting to run a C43 and E55 on the track with the same driver and see what gets a better time, i still say 55 hands down.

I only got 5 days with my E55. Its a world away from the E50 so i can imagine the e55 would completely stomp the C43. I had to come back to Germany and I won't be back to the US until sept. I already miss my E55.

I was set on a C43 because i wanted something different (never owned a w202) but decided the E55 was better.

ANDY

my friend who owns a w211 E55 and has driven a c43 says that his E55 would get owned in the twisties


also 210 E55 and c43 have same brakes, I saw the road test video of a c43 and the car took 95 feet to stop from 60 mph which is damn impressive


I dont see a big boat like w210 E55 stopping that fast(no offense, I actually love those cars)
also C43 is only one second slower around nurburgring then a 02 E55


your extra 40-50 hp doesnt mean much?


acording to the stats, the E should only be better in a straight line, yea you might run around the track faster but only a little bit faster which doesnt mean that much


Ive heard people say that they were able to get into high 13s with their stock c43s, first chance I get Im gona swap in a 5.4L


sorry to bump a probably old thread btw

[SleepersRock]

Originally Posted by PJmak

my friend who owns a w211 E55 and has driven a c43 says that his E55 would get owned in the twisties


also 210 E55 and c43 have same brakes, I saw the road test video of a c43 and the car took 95 feet to stop from 60 mph which is damn impressive


I dont see a big boat like w210 E55 stopping that fast(no offense, I actually love those cars)
also C43 is only one second slower around nurburgring then a 02 E55


your extra 40-50 hp doesnt mean much?


acording to the stats, the E should only be better in a straight line, yea you might run around the track faster but only a little bit faster which doesnt mean that much


Ive heard people say that they were able to get into high 13s with their stock c43s, first chance I get Im gona swap in a 5.4L


sorry to bump a probably old thread btw

The C43 would out run the E55 "in the twisties" I've driven both and the C43 can be pushed much harder through turns.

As far as the brakes go, they are much larger in the W210 E55 and were some sort of new racing technolgy (2 piece floating rotor or something like that?) vs. the C43 which is why stopping distance was less despite the added size and weight.

As far as the C43 being slower by only 1 second around the ring I could see that given how many turns there are in that track. Anyone have videos of these cars going round that track?

[PJmak]

Originally Posted by SleepersRock

The C43 would out run the E55 "in the twisties" I've driven both and the C43 can be pushed much harder through turns.

As far as the brakes go, they are much larger in the W210 E55 and were some sort of new racing technolgy (2 piece floating rotor or something like that?) vs. the C43 which is why stopping distance was less despite the added size and weight.

As far as the C43 being slower by only 1 second around the ring I could see that given how many turns there are in that track. Anyone have videos of these cars going round that track?

all reviews on the C43 that I read said it had the same brakes as the big brother(the E55)

maybe the latest model(02 model) has some updated brakes??

here is the video of the c43 stopping from 60 in 95 feet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNqg8...e=channel_page

[ProjectC55]

Originally Posted by PJmak

all reviews on the C43 that I read said it had the same brakes as the big brother(the E55)

maybe the latest model(02 model) has some updated brakes??

here is the video of the c43 stopping from 60 in 95 feet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNqg8...e=channel_page

Nope,the C43 has the brakes from the AMG E50. I'd also say that the 98 to 99 E55 might have the brakes from an E50 AMG as well. 2k to 2k2 I'd say has bigger better brakes and rotors than both.

[trinitony]

Interesting thread.....