benzokirk

Has anyone had any experience with K-Mac front or rear camber toe kits for our cars?

I was considering their products until I couldn't find anything for our E55's in their catalog. (Since originally posting this, I have found the front and rear E55 fitments.)

I'm trying to alleviate the pain in the **** inner wear on both front and rear tires, now that I've installed an new set of Bridgestone Pole Positions, which ain't cheap. I should also ask, is anyone here interested in ending the inner tire wear on our cars, by using the K-Mac products. If so, there's a group buy query posted here: https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ml#post6025243

The fitments run around $480 USD for front and the same for the rear.

Not sure if the proprietor is interested in such a group buy, but it can't hurt to ask...

SerbNerd

As posted in the non-AMG w210 section, I'm in on this too. Come on AMG guys...lets see if we can get some sort of deal (if any) through KMAC!

mufc

For the front you could try MB crash bolts, they could fix the problem depending on how much your car is out of spec. They will alter camber by about .5 to .75 degrees I think. Rears are generally a simple and cheap fix of adjustable control arms. Speedway motors has all of the parts needed for about $200.00. Search on W140 chassis forum for adjustable rear linkages.
I am sure the K-macs work also but have not used them.

snooozie

I'm not sure if Ghostrider is still in business but he sells adjustable camber kits for our cars. I got a pair from him a few years ago and they are great and very easy to install. Here's the link...

https://mbworld.org/forums/w210-amg/...-kit-sale.html

mufc

See the link below, original post was for W201 chassis but it is almost identical to W210 chassis. Prices listed a old but still will be by far the cheapest option to correct excessive rear camber
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w201...mber-arms.html

mufc

Corrected link below
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w201...mber-arms.html

K-Mac

What we are offering MB World Members USA/Canada for the Month of May is freight cost of $25 FedEx air for one kit or $35 for front and rear kits. FedEx delivery time averages out at 3 days.


With only front and rear Toe adjustment OEM K-MAC front kits (unlike the one only position" offset bolts") allow precise adjustment and twice the adjustment range.


The front patented design bushings at same time replace the four highest wearing bushes. Their 2 axis/self aligning and with twice the load bearing area of OEM bushes.


So precise/quick (single wrench - on car) ongoing adjustment of both Camber and Caster for the first time. Allowing improved tire wear, traction, high speed directional control, steering response and resolving steering pull once and for all.


While rear kits also provide precise Camber adjustment capability and extra Toe to compensate for the new Camber facility.




With the advantages over the alternative "upper adjustable link arms with rigid spherical bearing rod ends" that....


1. The K-MAC patented design moves bottom of the tire in to resolve premature inner edge wear/improve traction. While "upper arms" move top of tire outwards reducing important tire to outer fender clearance.


2. K-MAC elastomer bushings for extended life - having proven themselves over the last 18 years. While anyone in the race industry would point out it is not long before rod ends soon pound out allowing metal to metal contact.

snooozie

These are pretty slick looking DIY camber kits. Seriously, I would definitely get them as they look great and very straight forward. I have the P-1 but since ghostrider no longer produce them, I would definitely go with the DIY ones. A lot cheaper and probably easier to put in just like the P-1.


Thanks for the link!! I took a snap of both the P-1 and the DIY camber kit, they both look almost identical (I like the gold color better IMO)...

benzokirk

I think it's time to reclaim this semi-hijacked thread that was originally posted to determine if anyone has any experience with Kmac products... I say "semi" hijacked because there are some useful, related, posts and links that are helpful, if not to the point of the question. I guess I should assume that no one here has used Kmac corrective camber/caster/toe bushings... Fair enough.

I guess it's also fair to assume that there are only about 2 or 3 of us interested in approaching Kmac for a group buy. So, considering the freight savings offer of what is typically $70 - $80 to the USA, I guess that's about the best I can expect?

If so, that's cool too, that's not a bad offer... I might have to take them up on that offer, especially since they seem to offer a more comprehensive approach to correcting our problem. I'm not really looking for simplicity, but rather complete reversal of the inner tire wear issue while gaining better handling and traction while braking and accelerating.

SerbNerd

Like I said somewhere before, the KMAC kit would push or pull in the bottom of the wheel instead of the DIY arm which would push/pull the top of the wheel. KMAC kit is awesome for anyone who is lowered and running wide rubber...285+ tires.

I'm going to hold out on the KMAC purchase until the end of summer as I'll be abroad but shipping cost is much better...better then paying normal price.

benzokirk

Yeah, I saw that but forgot to respond with what Kmac has posted regarding this:

"The K-MAC patented design moves bottom of the tire in to resolve premature inner edge wear/improve traction. While "upper arms" move top of tire outwards reducing important tire to outer fender clearance."

If this is true, their designs (moving top and bottom - out and in respectively) would be beneficial to my lowered E55 running 245 in front and 275 in the rear, which I believe is stock. Both my front and rear tires are wearing unevenly.


"I'm going to hold out on the KMAC purchase until the end of summer as I'll be abroad but shipping cost is much better...better then paying normal price."

Agreed...

bbirdwell

I looked at K-Mac...their offerings are well-engineered and a solution for many, if not all, Mercedes camber/caster/toe-in issues.


Having said that, and as a new Mercedes owner with a stock but formerly way out of whack suspension, here is my opinion (everyone has one).


Front suspension:
- Use the "eccentric" alignment bolts. Not really eccentric but the front will give you +/- 0.33 degrees camber adjustment. You can trade caster for another ~+/- 0.33 degrees caster.
-If you need more than 0.67 degrees adjustment in camber, get the K-Mac kit.
-If you lower your car, just plan on buying the K-Mac kit. You're going to need it.


Rear suspension:
-Assemble your own adjustable camber bars. Mine cost $98 delivered plus my tools and time.
-If you want the K-Mac mystique, purchase the K-Mac parts. Good stuff but I believed I could do it just as well. If you are not mechanically inclined, just buy the stuff from K-Mac or get a friend to do it for pizza and beer. If you don't have a friend, buy it from K-Mac.

Also, autocrossers recognize that one does not necessarily want wider rubber as it does not translate into faster times. The tire doesn't have time to heat up to proper temperature for maximum traction on a run.

As far as the argument that the K-Mac pulls the lower edge of the wheel inboard so the upper edge does not interfere with the fender edge, it may actually be cheaper or look better to push the upper side of the tire outward and have fender flares installed. Personal choice.


K-Mac makes good stuff. But everything has a cost/benefit curve. Decide where the two meet.


FWIW.

benzokirk

+1 Much appreciated opinion!

K-Mac

worth pointing out to MB World members that with the current K-MAC front Camber and Caster adjuster kits when compared to the only alternative "industry standard" - slot or fluted bolts - provide 4 times the adjustment range!


Plus unlike the slot bolts they are not - hit or miss - one position. But allow precise full adjustable/fine tuning of both Camber and Caster.


With ongoing adjustment just a single wrench on car, no disassembly required each time when wanting to alter suspension height, tire size or for curb knock damage.


Alternatively in the race industry K-MAC front kits are used to actually increase negative Camber (and track width) to gain faster lap times. In the ongoing pursuit to lower times, get onto the front row of the grid, set pole position!


It is all about front end traction allowing to go deeper into the corners and being able to hit corner apex's every time. While K-MAC rear kits also allow full adjustability (of both Camber and Toe) to fine tune and get power to the ground/traction.

bbirdwell

@ K-Mac representative...


I fully concur you make a quality product. If I was lowering my car I would purchase your product; it's well-engineered and good stuff. I can't complain about the cost because I work in a R&D organization; quality design and work costs money.


May I recommend you design a front camber/caster kit that does *not* require replacing the front bushings? A lower cost kit for those of us with a *stock* ride height who just want the ability to adjust our alignment? If your company had a lower cost kit available for my situation, I would have purchased it even at a slightly higher (10%? 20%? 30%) cost compared to the underwhelming "groove and slot" bolts. I'm an Engineer; the "groove and slot" bolts work in an very simplistic way but they could be better and I'm willing to purchase a product that appeals to me.


Understand I come from decades of driving Mazda Miatas with true eccentric bolts; very easy to set my alignment exactly where I want it without having to spend hundreds of dollars of hard-earned money. How about you provide an "in-between" solution for those of us transitioning into the Mercedes mystique?


It's not as lucrative as your top-of-the-line kits but it captures those of us on the borderline. Then we might transition into your top-of-the-line kits with further profit for you.


You can also apply this to the rear camber kits. Full-cost kit with upper and lower control arm bushings for those who want it all. A somewhat lower cost (but still profitable for you) kit for those who just want to bring their camber back in line while keeping their stock wheels and tires. If you had assembled the upper camber bars into a ready-to-order kit for me, I would have gladly purchased them from you rather than spending 8-10 hours of my time researching the information. My time is worth money to me.


If you don't go for it folks like me will just spend money elsewhere. Look at your product sales distribution versus Mercedes sales distribution. Are you selling 20% of your product where only 8% of Mercedes are sold? If so, you're missing on a large market.


No disrespect intended. I hope your business strategists see where I'm going....


May your business prosper and make my Internet searches much less time consuming!


:-)

bbirdwell

Heck, while I'm brainstorming, how about you come up with a way that folks could pull their old lower control arm (LCA) bolts but your product holds the LCA in place so the new bolts can be inserted with less time and trouble than it took for me to do mine?


I have some ideas but the intellectual property belongs to my employer, not me. You're on your own but good luck!

benzokirk

Okay then, before I pull the trigger... my indie shop tells me that these bushings could very well make my car run a lot harder and that's the trade-off with stiffer bushings that last longer. Is that true with your elastomer bushings?

K-Mac

At K-MAC we have been manufacturing suspension bushings now since 1964. This 50 years of ongoing design and development keeps us at the forefront in bush technology.


Your indie shop is actually pointing out what is normal in the industry - super hard urethane or delrin type bushing with virtually no give and besides go-kart ride in many situations, especially with today's multi-link suspension arms mounting at many different angles actually worsens wheel hop and lack of traction. Suspension arms binding and locking up as they try to travel through their required arcs.


A good example of this is in all out 10/10ths competition racing of big heavy V8's where top speed on main straight then hitting corner race curbs and becoming fully airborne then slamming down lap after lap.


We have situations as a result where race scrutineers stipulate from this first hand experience/assessment that K-MAC and only K-MAC bushings are to be used!

DJ BIS

I might be interested in a set of rears for 2009 W204.
I just wonder how KMAC stands by their product. Warranty for their products?
They sound like a legit company, just need to learn more about them and how they support their customers.
I like what I see so far.
There are WAY TOO MANY European cars on US roads with their tires spread wide at the bottom. lol Lots of tires being wasted!