An open letter to Gustav

[hilsman]

Gustav, I must say you run an interesting board...it appears any challenger to the M-5's being all conquering will be banned....I expected better from you guys. It's a shame when the sharing of ideas and information is viewed as heresy...do you guys pray to Bavaria several times a day or just lack civility and decorum. I assume I was banned for my request for (1) proof that an M-5 had run 12 secs in 1/4 m and undoubtably(2) my belief that you got a ringer for the test. Since you refuse to admit even this possibility let me give you a logic lesson for what it worth. Although I sure it will fall on deaf ears. Our dear friend M&M is fond to quote the startling time for the 0-200k of @13.8secs...I believe this is the best any european mag has ever recorded...a very decent time I might add. But whoa Nellie, you with three of your friends turn it in...drum roll,please...an astonishing 12.816. Now being fair to you I will subtract .3 secs for you extra weight...bringing your time to 12.5. Now are you so niave as to believe that you and your fellow passengers are such race car driver's that you beat ole M&M's benchmark of 13.8 by 1.5 secs...that's huge... you guys need to quit the day jobs and hire on as professional road testers. Gustav...can you possibly explain this in any way other than (1) you and your crew are such talented driver's as to completely shatter every other magazine in Europe's accomplishments or (2) you got suckered..a ringer son...just like in the old horsepowers wars in Detroit....you were duped....do you really believe BMW would invite you to the party to lose? Gustav, I'm sure you will come up with something to explain this but I wait with baited breathe...Gray

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[BMWEATR]

BAM , right between the eyes!

thats ok i hope they are faster so they want to race us more! I got alittle somthi'n for um.

[Gustav]

Hello and interesting way of conersation. I ban people who dont behave and adhere to the rules. That is flaming and personal attacks. You fit that criteria.

If you see the posts here I beleive some of you lack civility by judging of some of the language of the members on mbworld.org.

You assumption why you were banned is wrong. Reasons stated in my first sentence above.

13,8 s is the best, yes I beleive so as well.

If you see my post I question those times myself that was measured by DavidS. I have not state those times and I do not beleive in them.

Why just you dont read what I wrote instead:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...&postcount=203

It is a fact that it ran even in higher speeds with Gallardo and Techart 996 Turbo with 510 HP kit.

Just see other members post about it as well.

[M&M]

Well, actually the best time for an M5 was 13.5 by Auto Zeiting. Their trap over the 1/4 was 120mph as well. The test was posted on the BB a while back.

I must confess that 12.8 for 0-200 seems awfully fast for carrying 3 passengers. I would say ow 13's would be possible as the magazines don't bother with tyre pressures, cooling manifold, etc.

Either way, whatever time it is, you can bet your bottom dollar it will be quicker than a stock E55 by a reasonable margin. This has been documented by Sport Auto, Autocar, AutoBild, Auto Zeuting, etc. The acceleration difference seems to be from 60mph upwards as traction will be a problem for both cars until 3rd gear.

[Gustav]

Ill help you out;

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...1&postcount=98

[IanSL55]

Who cares that the new M5 can outrun the 'old' W211 E55. The latest and greatest should always outperform... I'm more concerned about how BMW could actually market such a ugly duckling of a car. I can't find a angle on that sled that's easy on the eyes...

~ Ian

[M&M]

I have a funny feeling we are going to have a C32/C55 scenario where the new car isn't any faster than the car it replaces. The E63 has 500hp but loses a whole lot of torque to the E55. For sure it will gain a few pounds as well 'cos AMG aren't interested in the dynamic driving experience.

I see 55 owners at the strip killing the 63's & a whole new line of arguments starting on MBworld. So hold on to those 55's. Maybe they will become classics.

[W210]

Locking the thread was the correct solution, banning was not.

This reflects the poor judgement on the administrator, but with all the hard work you put in, I can understand and forgive. Personally if I were the administrator, I would have used some social skills to mediate instead of making the situation worse.

[Gustav]

The situation became far better after hilmsan left with end of flaming.

[hilsman]

Originally Posted by Gustav

The situation became far better after hilmsan left with end of flaming.

Gustav.

You simply do not speak the truth...I never used profanity..several of your non banned members did, no sarcasm just hard facts...which you can't endure..and civility which is completley alien to your forum. I was banned for not believing your data and putting it in your face....you cannot say otherwise...hell put the posts up again and let everyone decide...if flaming is disagreement with the obvious I'm glad you banned me....you made absurb generalizations which simply could not be upheld with the test of reason...give it up Gustav you don't have a leg to stand on...Gray

[M5KILLR]

Originally Posted by M&M

I have a funny feeling we are going to have a C32/C55 scenario where the new car isn't any faster than the car it replaces. The E63 has 500hp but loses a whole lot of torque to the E55. For sure it will gain a few pounds as well 'cos AMG aren't interested in the dynamic driving experience.

I see 55 owners at the strip killing the 63's & a whole new line of arguments starting on MBworld. So hold on to those 55's. Maybe they will become classics.

the c55 has been out for some time now snickers and we allow spirited debate here. you are a true blue honest to goodness flamer but i welcome your ignorrance, er...intelligence.

[hilsman]

Gustav,

And by the way if P.T. Barnum was still alive and looking for a few good men he'd wring you right up...Gray

[Can Drive 55]

The thing that I do not understand is, why is a BMW forum administrator on this forum in the first place? Doesn't he have a job to do playing nanny 911 to his children?

[FloridaE55]

Hi,

The biggest problem I have with the new M5 and the competition with the E55 is not which car might be faster or not, IMO.

BMW has a different problem, at least here in the U.S.: Since many of my family members own BMWs and were always satisfied with their cars I also thought of getting the M5 before I decided on behalf of Mercedes E55.

I don't care which car looks better or is faster for one simple reason - YOU SIMPLY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. I can't drive a car that only exists in a brochure and might be available someday, and when they are finally able to launch the car (I don't mean that you can only get 1 car per dealer per month or nonsense like that), the M5 will be outperformed by the 2007 E63.

This is a very bad timing by BMW that really disappoints me
You can always state that you are better than the other one if you don't put your cards on the table - and I don't see this great M5 on the road yet...

[tofumann]

Gustav, do you work @ BMW as a PR person....seriously...such question really crossed my mind. For the admin from the M5 Board coming in here, that's something

BTW, I've heard Sweden is a great country. What do you do for fun?

[BMBW]

Well, a person could choose to wait until they can drive the new M5. That is a choice. Also, your argument about the timing don't work - using your own logic, the 2007 E63 is destined to cause the same dissapointment and be a victim of the same bad timing since there will be a window of time during which the new M5 is available while the 2007 E63 is not. Moreover, by stating that the M5 will be outperformed by the 2007 E63, you're doing the same thing that you're complaining about, but worse - you're comparing one car that is in production but not yet released in the US against a car that isn't even close to being in production. How are you backing that statement up?

Originally Posted by FloridaE55

Hi,

I don't care which car looks better or is faster for one simple reason - YOU SIMPLY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. I can't drive a car that only exists in a brochure and might be available someday, and when they are finally able to launch the car (I don't mean that you can only get 1 car per dealer per month or nonsense like that), the M5 will be outperformed by the 2007 E63.

This is a very bad timing by BMW that really disappoints me
You can always state that you are better than the other one if you don't put your cards on the table - and I don't see this great M5 on the road yet...

[Gid_E_Up]

Originally Posted by W210

Locking the thread was the correct solution, banning was not.

This reflects the poor judgement on the administrator, but with all the hard work you put in, I can understand and forgive. Personally if I were the administrator, I would have used some social skills to mediate instead of making the situation worse.

Agree 110%. Nicely put.

[Fast55]

Agreed, especially after reading the whole thing. With little exposure to the board, I'd have to say Hilsman has more then one valid point. That's not say everyone here is a paragon of civility, but the moderators here seem to do a little more moderating instead of pulling the plug on people (or threads for that matter), IMHO.

[FloridaE55]

Originally Posted by BMBW

Well, a person could choose to wait until they can drive the new M5. That is a choice. Also, your argument about the timing don't work - using your own logic, the 2007 E63 is destined to cause the same dissapointment and be a victim of the same bad timing since there will be a window of time during which the new M5 is available while the 2007 E63 is not. Moreover, by stating that the M5 will be outperformed by the 2007 E63, you're doing the same thing that you're complaining about, but worse - you're comparing one car that is in production but not yet released in the US against a car that isn't even close to being in production. How are you backing that statement up?

You are right that there will be a time gap between the launch of the 2007 E63 and the M5. That's right. I also stated that we love BMW and my mother will get the X5 4.8is when I get my AMG, so we really don't hate BMW! She chose the X5 because there won't be an ML55 AMG at that point (same problem, advantage BMW). But please take into consideration that this gap might only be a few month, not years as with the current M5. Actually, I'm a bit surprised that you don't know that because you are stating you own an M5.

The problem I wanted to describe is:

What about the late 2003 and whole 2004 year? What could BMW offer to compete with the E55? The M3 was the only M they had AND STILL HAVE! This car is no serious competitor to the E55! The only option was a pre-owned M5 because they even stopped the M5 sale in the US completely without substitute and that's the problem! I bet BMW lost millions due to this HUGE gap and Mercedes shows that it's possible to launch the power-version of a car (CLS500 and CLS55 launched the same time) without a two-year gap. That's the problem and they will have the same problem with the M6. I have to say it again - I might have chosen the M5 over the E55 or even the M6, both are fabulous cars, both available in Germany but I NEED THEM HERE!!

[BMBW]

Originally Posted by FloridaE55

That's right. I also stated that we love BMW and my mother will get the X5 4.8is when I get my AMG, so we really don't hate BMW!

I didn't infer or mean to imply in my post that you had anything against BMW.

Originally Posted by FloridaE55

But please take into consideration that this gap might only be a few month, not years as with the current M5. Actually, I'm a bit surprised that you don't know that because you are stating you own an M5.

Because I own an M5, that means I should know when the E63 is going to be released? I don't follow. Also, what do you mean by years? The E60 M5 is months away, not years. If you are referring to the years between the E39 and E60, what difference should that make to someone trying to make a decision this year?

Originally Posted by FloridaE55

The problem I wanted to describe is:

What about the late 2003 and whole 2004 year? What could BMW offer to compete with the E55? The M3 was the only M they had AND STILL HAVE! This car is no serious competitor to the E55!

What does this have to do with comparing the E55 to the M5? How is it relevant? I kind of agree that it may be a problem with BMW, but I thought your were arguing that you can't compare the two cars because the M5 isn't available yet, not that BMW has a flawed business plan.

Originally Posted by FloridaE55

The only option was a pre-owned M5 because they even stopped the M5 sale in the US completely without substitute and that's the problem! I bet BMW lost millions due to this HUGE gap and Mercedes shows that it's possible to launch the power-version of a car (CLS500 and CLS55 launched the same time) without a two-year gap. That's the problem and they will have the same problem with the M6. I have to say it again - I might have chosen the M5 over the E55 or even the M6, both are fabulous cars, both available in Germany but I NEED THEM HERE!!

Again, so what? What does that have to do with making a decision this year? Are you saying that someone shouldn't wait 6 months because of the last couple years in which BMW did nothing?

[FloridaE55]

Actually, you can't make a decision between those cars because even if you decide in favour of the M5, you won't even get it in 2005. If you order the E55 now, you'll get it in September or earlier. Show me a dealer that can deliver the M5 in my area in 6 months - that would be great.

BMW's flawed business plan IS the reason for the gap in availability, resulting in not having the possibility to compare the two cars.

The E 60 M5 wasn't just a few months away when they stopped production/sale on your E39 M5. We're actually talking about 2 years. By referring to you as an owner I wanted to point out that you should have been aware of the gap between the launch of the E60 M5 and the end of sale of the E39 M5. This has nothing to do with the actual launch date of the new M5 (even the dealers don't know... )

Everybody knows that a custom made car like the E55 or M5 have a longer delivery-time than ordinary cars, and some cars are really worth waiting for. But if it comes to years (what if I wanted an M5 in 2004?) you simply loose the business to the competitor who can at least offer something. I guess you agree that it is better to have the "older" or "slower" car for a few month than struggeling for years to get anything launched.

[enzom]

Originally Posted by M&M

I have a funny feeling we are going to have a C32/C55 scenario where the new car isn't any faster than the car it replaces. The E63 has 500hp but loses a whole lot of torque to the E55. For sure it will gain a few pounds as well 'cos AMG aren't interested in the dynamic driving experience.

I see 55 owners at the strip killing the 63's & a whole new line of arguments starting on MBworld. So hold on to those 55's. Maybe they will become classics.

I love this. M&M do you own an M5? Do you have one on order? Do you have any reasonable prospects of owning one? If the REAL answer, as I suspect, is "no" to all three, why do you get so excited about defending a car in which you have no vested interest?

When the real M5 makes it to our shores, hopefully some time this calendar year, and their real owners take them out to "play", the only world that matters - THE REAL ONE - will see what they can do. If they are faster, I won't lose sleep. I really don't think any of us will. And you and your friends can sleep soundly knowing that a car you have no hope of actually calling your own is faster than ours.

FWIW - I still think that the M5 is just ugly. As the previous owner of TWO E39 540's, I can say that.

[Belmondo]

Originally Posted by enzom

FWIW - I still think that the M5 is just ugly. As the previous owner of TWO E39 540's, I can say that.

Why do you give a fk if M5 is ugly--you are not buying one.
Form your sig:
05 E55 - Best e.t. 12.07 @ 116.85, 1.881 60' - BONE STOCK Timeslip

you have nothing to worry about M5 beating you when and if it ever gets to US. Its funny that to this day there is no E55/M5 head to head comparisson by anybody---if you can get M5, how hard would it be to get E55 as well, to show at least that on that day/ocassion M5 could stay or dastroy E55. But no, never been done.
THere was ONE comparo between CLS55/M5 somewhere but no E55.
Safe to assume that when M5 gets to US you will not see video of M5 destroying E55. When M5 is here and its proven that M5 will manage to stay with E55 I hope all of you will look back on all this arguing about bogus numbers from sources like gustaff and realize what a dambs hit you were.

Go watch "laser dance" (chapter 32)by a french dude in Ocean's 12 instead of reading gustaffs swedish BS or MM's juvenile fabrications.

Jean-Paul

[Belmondo]

Originally Posted by hilsman

Gustav,

I must say you run an interesting board...it appears any challenger to the M-5's being all conquering will be banned....

Yap, when gustaff and friends cant beat ya, they ban you .

[BMBW]

Originally Posted by FloridaE55

Actually, you can't make a decision between those cars because even if you decide in favour of the M5, you won't even get it in 2005. If you order the E55 now, you'll get it in September or earlier. Show me a dealer that can deliver the M5 in my area in 6 months - that would be great.

But you can decide to wait. Your argument is that there is no choice other than the E55. My point is that a buyer can choose to wait until the M5 is available and until he can drive them back to back. That may not be practical for someone looking to purchase right now, but it will be fine for many buyers.

Originally Posted by FloridaE55

BMW's flawed business plan IS the reason for the gap in availability, resulting in not having the possibility to compare the two cars.

It's not possible right now, but it will be. Will you blame MB for not being able to compare the E63 to the M5 as soon as the M5 is available? Perhaps you would have BMW and MB synchronize all of their releases? Now that would be a flawed business plan.

Originally Posted by FloridaE55

The E 60 M5 wasn't just a few months away when they stopped production/sale on your E39 M5. We're actually talking about 2 years. By referring to you as an owner I wanted to point out that you should have been aware of the gap between the launch of the E60 M5 and the end of sale of the E39 M5.

There was nothing in my first post that suggested that I didn't know this - where are you getting this from? In my last post I thought you were referring to when the W212 is due to be released - I thought that's what the E63 was referring to.