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W211 AMG Discuss the W211 AMG's such as the E55 and the E63

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Old 08-16-2005, 11:38 PM   #1
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*** E55 Dyno: She's a healthy Beast! ***

Well, I had a baseline dyno done tonight before the headers and other parts get installed. I knew she was a healthy motor and the dyno confirmed it.

Remember, all i have done right now is some basic heat wrapping and the BMC race filters. Cant wait to get the other parts installed and do some incremental pulls.

I am confident I will get 640hp out of this motor without breaking a sweat.

3 pulls in total were done. 1st pull (Blue: is not on this graph) was missing RPM signal so he aborted 3/4 the way through.

2nd pull, 3rd gear, (Red curve), 425rwhp, 407rwtq corrected. With a 20% loss that equates to: 531hp, 509tq at the crank!!!

3rd pull, 4th gear, (Green Curve), 411rwhp, 476rwtq corrected. Confirmed that VMAX works... Fuel cut out at exactly 155mph on the dyno so that's why the curve drops off. With a 20% loss that equates to: 514hp, 595tq at the crank!!!

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Last edited by vrus; 08-17-2005 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 08-17-2005, 01:54 AM   #2
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Nice power... but, doesn't the stock e55 only put out 469 at the crank stock?
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:05 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by dragonAMG
Nice power... but, doesn't the stock e55 only put out 469 at the crank stock?
so they say...
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:06 AM   #4
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Awesome Victor! Now get the rest of that stuff on there and yeehaw
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:09 AM   #5
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Holy crap!!!
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Old 08-17-2005, 04:58 AM   #6
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well then its probably safe to say that less than 20% is lost through the drivetrain. Surely it cant be pumping out that much power and torque
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Old 08-17-2005, 05:11 AM   #7
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Nice power... but, doesn't the stock e55 only put out 469 at the crank stock?

.........actually familiar with this, having seen many AMG V8K dynos. The lowest I saw was 392 and that was my G55 which has huge drive train loss. Since the car does 13.2 1/4 mile at 103mpH and weighs 5600lbs, the crank HP might actually be in the mid to upper 500's. The E55 dyno's I have seen (about 6 so far) all dyno above 410. Safe to discard the 469HP figure.

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Old 08-17-2005, 05:12 AM   #8
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i heard to use 17% which is still awesome. i ran 420hp with 17%. talked to rob, the amg guy at the amg challenge about the hp debacle and he gave me a bs answer that made no sense about the bigger cars being able to dissipate heat better therefore getting more power out of the s/sl/cl cars. hmmm.... arent cars dyno'd outside the car for crank hp certification??? i hate corporate bs'ers.
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Old 08-17-2005, 07:01 AM   #9
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........17% sounds about right in a rear wheel drive car. some confusion exists because tuners use a higher percent drive train loss which makes their products appear to generate more HP than the stock AMG V8K's. For four wheel drive cars, the guys that tune STi's use a 22% drive train loss. Don't know how accurate this is. If your work backwards from the g55's weight, trap speed and quatermile time, it is highly unlikely that it has 469HP at the crank. Further, the Kleemann G55K dynoed at 380Hp at the wheels and they used a 35% drive train loss to convert that to 530HP, but the car's 1/4 mile time is 14secs at 99mph. As to the difference between E55, and E55. The consensus I believe is that their is no difference in HP. All make about 500HP.

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Old 08-17-2005, 08:49 AM   #10
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425 is about right for an E55 on a given day. At the dyno shop that I use in Atlanta, all of the E55's and CLS55's seem to dyno between 411 and 426 at the rear wheels. It has been funny but we have had days where we ran a couple of cars back to back with not more than 4 or 5 hp difference between them on the same day under the same conditions.

I agree with the post that driveline loss seems to be used by many to increase crank HP. Your best bet is just to compare RWHP to RWHP on the same dyno. After all, it is what gets to the ground that matters....

Just my .02

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Old 08-17-2005, 10:43 AM   #11
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I have mad many cars go through my hands over the years. Typically with a 6spd transmission you would see roughly 15% drivetrain loss. On an automatic that number was always between 20% - 25%. I think 20% is a good indicator based on the make-up of these cars.

I wish I had the car delimited so I could see a clean pull in 4th.. I am assuming it would be in the 420 - 425 range at 6,100rpm.

The graph had fairly clean lines on it and the A/F ratio down low was actually on the lean side which surprised me. I was expecting an erratic ramp-up with pig-rich A/F right through. The stock program really only dumps extra fuel in the upper RPM spectrum (5,000+).

All in all I am very happy with this starting point.

Everyone at the dyno shop was pretty impressed when they saw the numbers. Mind you, they had never seen an E55 dyno before.

Next step is the EVO headers (and hopefully a downpipe to go with it) and then a re-dyno. Shooting for 30rwhp increase. Gotta aim BIG.

Last edited by vrus; 08-17-2005 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:59 AM   #12
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Great numbers Victor! You should probably discard the 2nd pull though since it was done in 3rd gear which has a different gearing ratio and would not be 1:1. 4th gear (like on your 3rd run) is the appropriate gear to base your numbers on.

Also, You'll find your torque numbers will vary wildly depending on how the dyno operator eases into the gas pedal. I've had my trq numbers vary by a value of 21 between two different pulls, yet my hp numbers stayed very consistent.

Great stuff. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 08-17-2005, 11:08 AM   #13
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Victor,

Awsome numbers! If you're at 425rwhp right now with just these mods installed what do you guesstimate you'll end up with with all the mods installed? 460-480rwhp? What's left to be installed? Evo headers and what else?
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Old 08-17-2005, 11:19 AM   #14
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Thanks Darren! Yeah.. I know that 4th is the best gear to run in. I wanted a 3rd and 4th gear pull because I knew 4th wouldnt be a complete pull.

I am using the 425rwhp from the 3rd gear pull as an indicator of what I would have hit in 4th at 6,100rpm.

I wish I could get rid of the VMAX without affecting anything else in the ECU. Damn..

Quote:
Originally Posted by daren_dallas
Great numbers Victor! You should probably discard the 2nd pull though since it was done in 3rd gear which has a different gearing ratio and would not be 1:1. 4th gear (like on your 3rd run) is the appropriate gear to base your numbers on.

Also, You'll find your torque numbers will vary wildly depending on how the dyno operator eases into the gas pedal. I've had my trq numbers vary by a value of 21 between two different pulls, yet my hp numbers stayed very consistent.

Great stuff. Thanks for sharing.
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Originally Posted by JamE55
Victor,

Awsome numbers! If you're at 425rwhp right now with just these mods installed what do you guesstimate you'll end up with with all the mods installed? 460-480rwhp? What's left to be installed? Evo headers and what else?
Thanks!

I still have headers, downpipes, some more heat management, plug wires, supercharger cooling system upgrade, EVANs coolant and methanol injection to install.

I would be willing to bet that I will hit 580 - 600 crank hp without touching boost. I wont know if the stock ECU program will give me all the benefits with these extras installed or not until I am done.

If I dont get the results I am expecting with these extra parts I will get the ECU reflashed BUT I will NOT increase the boost.

The very last thing I will do to this car is change the supercharger pulley to increase boost and that is only after I have exhausted every other option.

I will be doing as many dyno pulls as I can in between each stage of install to document the progress and the increases.

Hopefully others can learn from my experiences.
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Old 08-17-2005, 11:33 AM   #15
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That's great Victor. Pls keep us posted of your progress i'm sure a lot can learn from your experience including myself.
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Old 08-17-2005, 01:38 PM   #16
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That's great Victor. Pls keep us posted of your progress i'm sure a lot can learn from your experience including myself.
Will do! Just confirmed that my install is happening Sunday morning at 9am. EVO headers, wires, and some more heat wrapping going in. We are trying to make it a long day and tackle the cooling upgrade also.

Talked to the Dyno guy and he said he might be in the middle of a move this weekend so I will have to wait for him to re-setup shop to get a post-install pull done.
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:41 PM   #17
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And this is stock!~! WOW!~!
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Old 08-17-2005, 04:47 PM   #18
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vrus - I appreciate your meticulous incremental build up. It will help all of us understand the incremental increase associated with the different Mods. you are doing to your E55. Again thank for going to all the trouble to post the information as it is developed. We all will be checking back in to see how your E55 is progressing up the Hp ladder. - Bob
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Old 08-17-2005, 05:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommaey
Surely it cant be pumping out that much power and torque
Surely, it CAN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenzoBoi
And this is stock!~! WOW!~!
I know there are a couple of guys that dyno'd their car stock, but I haven't seen a good dyno graph so I wasn't sure what to expect. The only dyno graphs I saw were ones that were run without DYNO MODE turned ON which are useless to look at. The only thing I knew for certain was that they were running between 410 - 425 rwhp. In any case, I like what I see so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolution Marine
vrus - I appreciate your meticulous incremental build up. It will help all of us understand the incremental increase associated with the different Mods. you are doing to your E55. Again thank for going to all the trouble to post the information as it is developed. We all will be checking back in to see how your E55 is progressing up the Hp ladder. - Bob
Thanks! Much appreciated. It would be easy for me or anyone to just go out and buy Stage 1000+++ and be done with it but most of the pleasure I get out of this hobby is to test out different approaches and see what works, why, and how... It costs more doing it this way, but I find it more enjoyable (a little frustrating sometimes, but, more enjoyable).

Sounds like you have a nice machine coming. Can't wait to see pics when it arrives!
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Old 08-17-2005, 08:34 PM   #20
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These were my stock dyno pulls very consistent with what you got. I did several third and fourth gear pulls , horsepower was about the same in both gears. The run with 480 torque we lost the rpm pick-up so that number I don't consider factual. Thats the graph that displays the speed at the bottom. My buddy owns the shop so I had all the time in the world for cool downs. Heat is the biggest issue with these cars as you are probably well aware. After a couple of back to back runs with no cool down power droped to 397. Just wanted to ad my feedback , hope you dont think I'm trying to hyjack your thread. Thanks.


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Old 08-17-2005, 09:27 PM   #21
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These were my stock dyno pulls very consistent with what you got. I did several third and fourth gear pulls , horsepower was about the same in both gears. The run with 480 torque we lost the rpm pick-up so that number I don't consider factual. Thats the graph that displays the speed at the bottom. My buddy owns the shop so I had all the time in the world for cool downs. Heat is the biggest issue with these cars as you are probably well aware. After a couple of back to back runs with no cool down power droped to 397. Just wanted to ad my feedback , hope you dont think I'm trying to hyjack your thread. Thanks.
Hijack? Heck no! I welcome the input.

Nice graphs!! The second one showing 430 & 466 is smooth and pulled clean to 6,000+.. Did you run that one in 3rd gear? I spoke to the guys at EVO and they suggested I do all the pulls in 3rd because at 155+mph in 4th gear there isnt enough airflow in the fans to generate good numbers.

You have one strong beast on your hands!

I am not sure how the dyno settings affect our readings but the only differences I can see was that on my graphs the SAE # was 1.01 and the Smoothing was 3. On yours it shows SAE 1.00 and smoothing 2. Not sure what that means but I guess they were both Dynojets so they are pretty consistent with eachother.

I'll learn more once I get some more pulls with it.

Thanks!
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Old 08-17-2005, 09:28 PM   #22
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I don't know whay people insists so much in converting their dyno #s to crank #s. Who cares what's the crank HP is? Just post your Wheel HP and compare those #s other cars. Unless you want to inflate those crank# so you can brag about it.
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Old 08-17-2005, 09:30 PM   #23
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Actually... I was doing all the dyno runs in MANUAL mode on the transmission.

Are you guys doing it in Sport mode and shifting manually or are you doing it with MANUAL mode?
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Old 08-17-2005, 09:43 PM   #24
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In my opinion manual mode is the best because you can start the pull at an earlier rpm. The smoothing and the correction factor will affect the numbers. I will swing by the shop tomorrow and play with that, I know that the smoothing can change one to three horsepower on the graph. I will also change the correction ratio to see the difference. Will post results tomorrow. BTW love the wheels something different than HRE's.
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Old 08-17-2005, 09:48 PM   #25
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Quote:
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I don't know whay people insists so much in converting their dyno #s to crank #s. Who cares what's the crank HP is? Just post your Wheel HP and compare those #s other cars. Unless you want to inflate those crank# so you can brag about it.
Well, it's not for ego's sake, that's for sure. If you want to know, I only posted the crank #'s because alot of people out there assume our cars are at 467hp as published and that we are not as strong as the SL55 (rated at 496hp). It's to show people that our cars are really underrated. Nothing major...
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