Which Headers Eurocharged or Kleemann ?
11-28-2009, 04:05 PM
#1
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E55 2003, C32 2002,
Which Headers Eurocharged or Kleemann ?
I bought stock E55 about 3months ago , to join my C32!
I think , it is the time to start modify my E55.
One thing I am not sure about, which headers will let my car gain more?
I am not gonna get short one for sure after my experience with my C32, did not gain much with it.
First Kleemann Headers, mid size not full long tube but 30 to 40Hp crank gain , has a good reputation with my friend C55 AMG owner he felt big gain in his car performance , I like the sound of his car.
Second choice is Eurocharged LT , after I searched I found not much about it because it is new product but Eurocharged mention 32 whp gain in a car they tested. May be some of you guys talked about it but I did not find in my search?
I do not see much Hp gain difference
Which one do you recommend?
If you have third option in the same price range, please mention it.
Thanks guys.
E55: STOCK
C32:
LET intake with ITG Filter
Eurocharged short Headers
LET 185mm Pulley
LET Tune
C3P HE
CM30 Pump
NGK IX Iridium
Magnecor 8.5mm Wires
I think , it is the time to start modify my E55.
One thing I am not sure about, which headers will let my car gain more?
I am not gonna get short one for sure after my experience with my C32, did not gain much with it.
First Kleemann Headers, mid size not full long tube but 30 to 40Hp crank gain , has a good reputation with my friend C55 AMG owner he felt big gain in his car performance , I like the sound of his car.
Second choice is Eurocharged LT , after I searched I found not much about it because it is new product but Eurocharged mention 32 whp gain in a car they tested. May be some of you guys talked about it but I did not find in my search?
I do not see much Hp gain difference
Which one do you recommend?
If you have third option in the same price range, please mention it.
Thanks guys.
E55: STOCK
C32:
LET intake with ITG Filter
Eurocharged short Headers
LET 185mm Pulley
LET Tune
C3P HE
CM30 Pump
NGK IX Iridium
Magnecor 8.5mm Wires
Last edited by saam55; 11-29-2009 at 08:26 PM.
11-30-2009, 10:58 AM
#5
I would take whatever figures the manufacturer claims with a grain of salt. Both of the headers you mentioned have a 1.75" primary, both 304 stainless steel construction.
Here's the differences:
EC are Tig welded Vs Kleemann Mig welded.
EC are longer overall. Of greater importance, their collector has
a gentler merge, which leaves less dead space between the pipes as they transition into the collector.
Then there is the header flange. Personally, I like that EC made each pipe with an individual flange. In my experience, there is less chance of having leaks with this configuration.
Black Friday, EC offered 20% off to forum members. So, a set of headers would have been $1600, which was a steal.
With all due respect to Kleenmann as being one of the original vendors, there are better choices today.
Here's the differences:
EC are Tig welded Vs Kleemann Mig welded.
EC are longer overall. Of greater importance, their collector has
a gentler merge, which leaves less dead space between the pipes as they transition into the collector.
Then there is the header flange. Personally, I like that EC made each pipe with an individual flange. In my experience, there is less chance of having leaks with this configuration.
Black Friday, EC offered 20% off to forum members. So, a set of headers would have been $1600, which was a steal.
With all due respect to Kleenmann as being one of the original vendors, there are better choices today.
11-30-2009, 01:32 PM
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2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
I would take whatever figures the manufacturer claims with a grain of salt. Both of the headers you mentioned have a 1.75" primary, both 304 stainless steel construction.
Here's the differences:
EC are Tig welded Vs Kleemann Mig welded.
EC are longer overall. Of greater importance, their collector has
a gentler merge, which leaves less dead space between the pipes as they transition into the collector.
Then there is the header flange. Personally, I like that EC made each pipe with an individual flange. In my experience, there is less chance of having leaks with this configuration.
Black Friday, EC offered 20% off to forum members. So, a set of headers would have been $1600, which was a steal.
With all due respect to Kleenmann as being one of the original vendors, there are better choices today.
Here's the differences:
EC are Tig welded Vs Kleemann Mig welded.
EC are longer overall. Of greater importance, their collector has
a gentler merge, which leaves less dead space between the pipes as they transition into the collector.
Then there is the header flange. Personally, I like that EC made each pipe with an individual flange. In my experience, there is less chance of having leaks with this configuration.
Black Friday, EC offered 20% off to forum members. So, a set of headers would have been $1600, which was a steal.
With all due respect to Kleenmann as being one of the original vendors, there are better choices today.
Kleemann's are mid-length headers with a catless SS downpipe - Eurocharged's are true LT's. Eurocharged's product is a great buy for enthusiasts who want true LTs, but they are 33% more money than the Kleemann alternative ("One Day Only!" pricing from a few days ago notwithstanding).
EC's probably would make a bit more power in back-to-back testing - probably also hang lower underneath the car and are at greater risk of damage, especially if lowered. Of note - the previous sentence is an educated guess... nothing more.
MBH, EC, and Kleemann (most expensive to least) are all good choices for M113 vehicles, among others. Can't go wrong with any of 'em, IMHO.
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11-30-2009, 02:18 PM
#8
c32AMG, Mig welding can only occur while you are adding metal and results in a higher weld bead. By it's own design, Mig welds start cold. With a Tig, heat is independant of adding a filler metal and usually results in a weld with greater penetration, and lower height. With exhaust piping, IMO, it is pretty much a draw as to which is better. However, TIG is more time consuming.
This thread displays a Mig'd header: https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...r-headers.html
I thought I saw some pics of a Kleemann header and it was mig'd but it might have been the above that I was thinking of, as the design is very similar.
Here is a thread showing a cracked Kleemann header. If you look at the collector flange, it appears to be Tig'd. So either Kleenmann's are fully Tig'd, or a combination of Tig and Mig.
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ore-after.html
This thread displays a Mig'd header: https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...r-headers.html
I thought I saw some pics of a Kleemann header and it was mig'd but it might have been the above that I was thinking of, as the design is very similar.
Here is a thread showing a cracked Kleemann header. If you look at the collector flange, it appears to be Tig'd. So either Kleenmann's are fully Tig'd, or a combination of Tig and Mig.
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ore-after.html
11-30-2009, 02:31 PM
#9
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last christmas there was a 50% off on kleemann headers
We've got a special going on for headers and ECU programming right now- if you order by the end of this month (Jan. 30th), headers and ECU programming is $1500.00 plus shipping. This represents a savings of $1000, as you are essentially getting the ECU programming for free.
We've got a special going on for headers and ECU programming right now- if you order by the end of this month (Jan. 30th), headers and ECU programming is $1500.00 plus shipping. This represents a savings of $1000, as you are essentially getting the ECU programming for free.
12-01-2009, 01:29 PM
#12
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The only true way to find out the performance potential, of either Eurocharge or Kleeman headers would be to dyno it. Test both pair on the same car, with the same identical tune, or stock setup. See what the HP numbers and Torque numbers are, then you can make a definitive decision. I know that this isn't practical in all cases, but if you had the money and can order both, and both pair had a money back guarantee, you would have your answer. The dyno is the only way to truely know, what the headers performance potential is.
12-01-2009, 04:20 PM
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2005 E55 Sedan (Peuter)
For my own edification - how does one determine MIG vs TIG welding by looking at a piece of hardware? Thought I'd read that 304SS "had" to be TIG, while mild-steel was typically MIG? Your post acknowledges the 304SS for both, but points out Kleemann is MIG - I wasn't aware of that (and not sure what ramifications it has).
Kleemann's are mid-length headers with a catless SS downpipe - Eurocharged's are true LT's. Eurocharged's product is a great buy for enthusiasts who want true LTs, but they are 33% more money than the Kleemann alternative ("One Day Only!" pricing from a few days ago notwithstanding).
EC's probably would make a bit more power in back-to-back testing - probably also hang lower underneath the car and are at greater risk of damage, especially if lowered. Of note - the previous sentence is an educated guess... nothing more.
MBH, EC, and Kleemann (most expensive to least) are all good choices for M113 vehicles, among others. Can't go wrong with any of 'em, IMHO.
Kleemann's are mid-length headers with a catless SS downpipe - Eurocharged's are true LT's. Eurocharged's product is a great buy for enthusiasts who want true LTs, but they are 33% more money than the Kleemann alternative ("One Day Only!" pricing from a few days ago notwithstanding).
EC's probably would make a bit more power in back-to-back testing - probably also hang lower underneath the car and are at greater risk of damage, especially if lowered. Of note - the previous sentence is an educated guess... nothing more.
MBH, EC, and Kleemann (most expensive to least) are all good choices for M113 vehicles, among others. Can't go wrong with any of 'em, IMHO.
1) the discounted price was close to the current new price of any competing header. I believe VRP’s is right around $1.5K too.
2) I expect to get a modest HP difference w/ L-Ts.
3) the sound should be more throaty and “mean”. Although, I have had some second thoughts about this since having purchased them. I’ve watched some videos on youtube of a C32 (?) w/ L-Ts racing an E55. The tone and pitch are awesome, but the volume is f-ing insane! I must have had a lapse in my thinking and forgot that one of the reasons I bought this car in the first place was for “dignified” performance and I’m done w/ my hot rodding days (for now at least). My worry is that I’ll feel so conspicuous with the loud noise that I won’t give it gas very frequently, and it’ll end up feeling like I’ve lost power. This matter (like the power issue) is very tough to evaluate before actually jumping in and doing it. So I just jumped in. Hopefully I won’t be regretful cus it’s a lot of money and a pain in the neck to get those b**ches on there. If it’s too loud, I’ve contemplated putting in a set of cats to calm it down. If that doesn’t work, I may just pull them back off and go w/ something short tube.
12-01-2009, 05:43 PM
#14
12-01-2009, 06:36 PM
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E55 AMG
12-01-2009, 08:12 PM
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2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
http://www.fabspeed.com/Kleemann%20H...tock%20E55.pdf
Photo credit: Fabspeed Motorsports (Kleemann Authorized Dealer)
12-02-2009, 05:42 PM
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E55 2003, C32 2002,
I am more with Kleemann headers side, but I decided to wait 3 weeks maybe the guys who just bought EC headers in the black friday can let me change my mind.
I hope if some one can cheak his WHP before and after EC headers so we can know the HP gain by this LT ?
Saam55
I hope if some one can cheak his WHP before and after EC headers so we can know the HP gain by this LT ?
Saam55
03-29-2015, 10:20 AM
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W204 C63 AMG
Hey guys! I use this old topic. 
This has been discussed here several times, but still, I would ask a few questions.
I now have a smaller S/C pulley and EC ECU tune. The car works perfectly and is very comfortable to drive. Thank you very much Jerry!
Next, I thought to put the headers. Plans to put the short tube headers. Kleemann and eurocharged is available at a good price.
What is the quality of these? Apparently these are currently manufactured in China?
This has been discussed here several times, but still, I would ask a few questions.
I now have a smaller S/C pulley and EC ECU tune. The car works perfectly and is very comfortable to drive. Thank you very much Jerry!
Next, I thought to put the headers. Plans to put the short tube headers. Kleemann and eurocharged is available at a good price.
What is the quality of these? Apparently these are currently manufactured in China?
03-29-2015, 10:50 AM
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W204 C63 AMG
Right now, seems to be available for 750$ on eBay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KLEEMANN-M113-V8-headers-down-pipes-/291409844807?hash=item43d9615a47&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KLEEMANN-M113-V8-headers-down-pipes-/291409844807?hash=item43d9615a47&vxp=mtr
03-29-2015, 11:55 AM
#23
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.I don't see how the long tubes worth more than double the price?... I was originally on the fence about that, but I just don't see the reason. What do they make, an extra 10Hp over the "shorty/midlength" manifolds for more than double the cost? If anyone can explain that, I would love to know why anyone goes with long tubes.
Are the EC and Kleemann's really the same in build quality and power gains? They are both $750 at the moment, so I was gonna pull the trigger this week.
03-29-2015, 12:12 PM
#24
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Both are probably made by the same manufacturer , if the kleemans are older stock they will look different but anything recent will be the same as EC.
