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Noted... I even tagged this thread for that very reason. It's been so long since I've seen it hit my subscriptions however, that I forgot that was the tone.
I'm trying to figure out if the Pierburg is worth the $450 price tag. I think the Bosch, flow wise is around the same as the Johnson CM30, but only around ~$200. I read through this thread which gets pretty technical. I just want to know what you guys are running these days in mildly modified cars.
I'm trying to figure out if the Pierburg is worth the $450 price tag. I think the Bosch, flow wise is around the same as the Johnson CM30, but only around ~$200. I read through this thread which gets pretty technical. I just want to know what you guys are running these days in mildly modified cars.
There's another pump listed in Nick's thread that even outperforms the Pierburg pumps: EMPWP29. It's listed on Summit Racing for $500. This pump is considered an upgrade on the Ford GTs. Which leads me to my next question.
Anyone on this forum tried something like this:
I don't know what the heat rejection capability are of this particular component. but, it's not uncommon to design one to expel upwards of 60kw of heat... Food for thought...
Shardul, the WP136 isn't much good for intercooling. Like the Johnson and DaviesCraig pumps, it has too high flow and too low pressure. See the Lingenfelter tests. All the information is in this thread or the one linked below.
You underestimated a bit...my temps stayed at 109 for like 10 minutes before dropping to 106.
Still pulls harder than a hooker with a time constraint though. I'm convinced Jerry tossed a Houston tune on my car way back when because performance hasn't suffered at all even with this heat.
Wow, had to do a double take. Your mileage is almost identical to mine.
Found this document for pierburg on the cwa100 and 50. I just installed a cwa100 (sls amg 100.2??) in my e55. Tested fine with the thing wired up to a battery with the resistor and all that as said in this thread works good. I soldered it in to the stock wiring.... then realised my mistake just now 10 amps maximum draw it says in this document I found. I suppose im on the borderline of possibly smoking that wiring up? Or am i??
I'll pull the cover again tomorrow and have another look I think I might even run a multimeter in line with it and see what the actual current is. Has anyone chucked a multimeter on this thing and read the actual current draw?
Man this thing is quiet and deffo seems to move some water had me worried when I was bleeding it and the coolant turned to a white froth for a while there. Got most of it to go away after a while. Will check the bleed again tomorrow.
Found this document for pierburg on the cwa100 and 50. I just installed a cwa100 (sls amg 100.2??) in my e55. Tested fine with the thing wired up to a battery with the resistor and all that as said in this thread works good. I soldered it in to the stock wiring.... then realised my mistake just now 10 amps maximum draw it says in this document I found. I suppose im on the borderline of possibly smoking that wiring up? Or am i??
I'll pull the cover again tomorrow and have another look I think I might even run a multimeter in line with it and see what the actual current is. Has anyone chucked a multimeter on this thing and read the actual current draw?
Man this thing is quiet and deffo seems to move some water had me worried when I was bleeding it and the coolant turned to a white froth for a while there. Got most of it to go away after a while. Will check the bleed again tomorrow.
EDIT: So I measured the actual current draw with an old battery with a charger on it with the pump mounted and bled in circuit and got 6.2amps which seems to drop to 6.08 after 20 seconds.
Whats the experts opinion on this? Is it the split second when it starts up (these pumps seem to soft start to me) that it could over draw and melt the wiring or is it the continuous amps that will melt the wiring.... im thinking 6.2amps is o.k on the stock wiring?.... The stock wiring appears to be 16 gauge online calculators are telling me its probably o.k with a 2-3% volt drop.
Does anybody know a simple way to activate the pump in the stock circuit. I seemed to remember someone mentioning if you plant the throttle (WOT) even for a split second it would activate the intercooler pump... this did not work for me... is there another simple method to test it? I have star I'll plug that in now and see if I can find something in there to activate it....
EDIT: So I got SDS to actuate the pump... of course it seems to turn the fan (I unplugged it) and the bloody fuel pumps on at the same time. I had the car on charge and this time it only draws 5.3amps in the factory circuit. I think im going to call it good the wiring shows no signs of being warm.
Last edited by austingtir; 06-05-2016 at 10:37 PM.
Are there any mechanical differences between the CWA-100 and the CWA-100.2 (RT and AMG version)? I've read that the 100.2 flows a few GPM more than the standard 100. On the other hand, I've also read that they are identical mechanically and GPM with the only difference being the casing.
Hey guys this thread has alot of great information and I learned alot thanks.
I'm right now trying to get this electric pump to work. I think its a CWA50 for a bmw.
Can anyone tell me how to test it if this is operational? Can this be done with just a basic power supply? I already tried giving power to pins 1 and 4 using a power supply and tried using a car battery.
Thankyou Say something about this photo
Last edited by shehan.dominic; 08-04-2016 at 11:42 AM.
Hi, is there anyone who can tell me if I can hook up the CWA100 pump directly to the two wires going to my bosch pump ?
with the resistor between 3 and 4 of course
the bosch pump turns on and off by the + right ?
^^ I did and I think its o.k but probably would be a bit safer running off a relay with better wiring etc. Not sure what thread probably this one but I did post pics of the current draw with a multimeter. It was around 5-6 amps with peaks to 7. I did the basic calcs on the factory wire size and it "looked" o.k to me.
The specs on the pump say it can draw upto 10 which is dodgy on that wiring so take that for what you will.
I was thinking about hooking up a relay as thats 100% safe
so the wires to the original pump are just ON/OFF, no ECU **** warning will occur if I use a relay ?
The ECU just checks the relay that switches the pump in the original setup, if you keep this relay you´ll be fine. the ECU doesent recognize if the relay switches a pump or not.
the cwa100 pump needs a few seconds to spin up, so it is better to use it as allways on pump and not like the bosch 010.
Hey guys this thread has alot of great information and I learned alot thanks.
I'm right now trying to get this electric pump to work. I think its a CWA50 for a bmw.
Can anyone tell me how to test it if this is operational? Can this be done with just a basic power supply? I already tried giving power to pins 1 and 4 using a power supply and tried using a car battery.
Thankyou Say something about this photo
I too had problems bench testing my new CWA50 so I sent it back. Same issue with the replacement. They apparently take several seconds to start after powering. I installed it in any event after never getting it to run on the bench. It works fine on 100% duty and judging by the apparent flow rate into my split tank and the lack of heat soak I now have, I would say a CWA100 will be too much with the flow moving too fast for maximum cooling efficiency.
thx
I'm not sure about "CWA100 will be too much with the flow moving too fast for maximum cooling efficiency."
Claus, the founder of Kleemann, told me it will help a bit but not cool SO MUCH more
then, about the heat soak, If you have no air in your system, you'll have no problems
As the Mercedes dealer din't want to sell me the low temparature vacuum device from mercedes I build one myself
I used it 2 times already and it removes 99.99% of the air in the turbo cooling system
I will post pictures here later, when i'll use it again after installing the pump
it cost me like 50$ to build
the reservoir must be hard plastic as you create depression
Just drive the car a bit
then connect all the stuff
let it run for 10 minutes engine on
then 5 min engine off
then 10 min engine on
then stop the engine and close all outputs
let engine cool of with input open connected to the fresh coolant
it will suck out some more collant with cooling off
not sure if I explained well but I tested this 3 times now and it's perfect
Hi All, I've been getting interested in uprated IC pumps for my V12TT, and I've written a lonely mini-blog in the M275 V12 Bi-Turbo Platform forum for a while. I've been scooping up all the information I can find out about pumps, and put it in one place where each pump can be compared on a comparable basis. I've just added the Pierburg pumps to that comparison, and I thought anyone reading this thread might be interested - well, more than the M275 regulars, at any rate. This is what I just wrote over there:
These are probably best know as "The BMW pump", but its actually a range of pumps for different applications. They range from the 15W WCP circulation pump (for heating and cooling when the engine is off) to a 1100W monster to replace the biggest mechanical pumps. An electric pump is still a bit of a novelty, but following BMW's lead, I think they're likely to become commonplace. There are probably four of interest:
The CWA 50 is used as a charge cooler pump on the recent BMW V8TT engine, and the CWA 200 is used as the coolant pump on a wide range of recent BM's. The circulation pumps have relatively low flow and high pressure, while the coolant pumps are obviously high flow. Like all good pumps, they're specified by their flow rate under pressure, so we know what their installed performance is going to be. Contrast that with the Meziere WP136S, which simply claims 20 gpm/76 lpm open pipe. I don't have much information about how the WP136 performs in an IC system, so I used what I could find. Like the Meziere, the big Johnson and Davies Craig pumps also claim high open pipe flow, but when I put the Pierburgs onto my Flow Characteristics chart, an interesting picture emerges.
For the purposes of charge cooling, these pumps rock. If you look at the Charge Cooler Resistance curve, which gives an indication of the pressure/flow characteristics for a typically constricted charge cooler system, you can see which pumps will give good installed performance. The CWA 50 beats all-comers so far, and the 100 is better still, even achieving one bar pressure differential at low flow rates. For charge cooler systems, these are two meaty pumps. I believe the CWA 100 is what Renntech use for their new IC pump, and it seems to be exactly what's needed. Shame about the silly price.
The CWA 200 & 400 coolant pumps are off the chart, flowing over 100 lpm, and I didn't even try to plot them. They're huge, but you can see they meet different requirements. Where the 50 & 100 (like the Bosch pumps) fit the Charge Cooler Resistance curve pretty well, the 200 & 400 are closer to the Engine Resistance characteristic. In fact, the Pierburg stats tend to back up what I've supposed are the installed characteristics for IC and engine cooling, with a big difference in the pressure/flow curves. If anything, I think the differences should be even greater, with an even steeper IC curve and a shallow coolant curve.
The other thing that's interesting about the Pierburg pumps is that they facilitate electronic variable speed control. They can be slowed down almost to a stop, for fast warm-up and to save electrical power. In theory, they can control water flow well enough to avoid the need for a thermostat. That might not avoid hot spots in the engine during warm-up, so I don't believe anybody has actually implemented that yet, but it sounds ideal for a charge cooler.
There's lots of interesting discussion, brochures and information about the Pierburg pumps here:
And here's my updated spreadsheet - note that the scales have been expanded since last time, and I've added imperial flow and pressure scales. I've been meaning to do that for weeks; its frustrating when manufactuers quote specs in so many different units; its difficult to make fair comparisons otherwise, so here they are.
Nick
I have just purchased a CWA 100 for my car and have connected it to power & ground, with 12V to pin3 via a 1.5k resistor as I have seen mentioned here.
Running the pump to test, I get only 35l/min with 1psi back pressure, supply 12V and current 3.9A.
From the graphs I have seen, the pump should flow close to 60l/min with that back pressure... Is there something else needed to get full speed from the pump?
I had the same issue
I wired same way but without resistor and for me it works
wouldn't understand why the board would fry
it's a high end pump german build
11-10-2015, 10:43 PM
