better handleing
01-16-2015, 01:40 PM
#1
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better handleing
Anyone road race there 55 on long tracks? Looking for suspension upgrades . MOST of all quicker steering. Thinking of raising the power steering pump pressure a few pounds at a time to see what happens, These cars feel really heavy in the steering....I know they are heavy cars but there has to be better options.Thanks
01-16-2015, 02:57 PM
#2
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99.999999% of the folks here go to straight line 1/4 mile 1/2 mile tracks. You are one of the first to ask about road race (which I'm happy/surprised).
Your best bet would be to throw on coilovers and maybe retrofit CLK black series steering for a better feel? Just throw ideas out there I'm not an expert by any means
Your best bet would be to throw on coilovers and maybe retrofit CLK black series steering for a better feel? Just throw ideas out there I'm not an expert by any means
01-16-2015, 03:11 PM
#3
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You are not going to get a nimble handling E55. It's not the right car. Too heavy upfront and the suspension is totally wrong (airbags). Wider tires upfront would reduce under steer. I have had mine on a few road courses and it's a dog. The brakes are all wrong as well. The SBC gives a very disconnected feel and overheats very quickly.
When hitting the corners at 80-90MPH it's there is a lot of body roll and weight transfer going on that makes it very difficult to stay confident and requires A LOT of small adjustments at the wheel.
When entering a corner at 40-50MPH the entry feels numb, lots of body roll and understeer. When you cross the apex and lay into the throttle you go into a strange transition between understeer/floating/severe oversteer and then you rocket down the straight away.
At low speed the steering rack makes it difficult. The steering wheel shuffle and having to let go of the wheel when the back end comes out makes for tough work and tons of steering inputs. The rear end has trouble getting traction out of the corners and makes for a smokey exit. If you're not ready for the back end to come out under 30MPH you can end up in the wall or gravel.
The worst part about the E55 on a road course is the gearbox. Down shifts are fine, it's the upshifts in the corners and exiting them and having to time the upshifts right for when you hit the point where you need all the power and don't want it to shift. It has a mind of it's own and again, makes you feel disconnected from the transmission.
The only rewarding experience in the E55 is to be the only Mercedes on the race track, untouchable on long straights and just the brute force this thing delivers coming out of a corner when executed properly. It's a machine, it will certainly test your skills. Not a car those that can't handle every single thing being thrown at them all at once. Lots going on with little feel and requiring lots of input with no confidence it'll actually do what you think it will do.
Happy Tracking
When hitting the corners at 80-90MPH it's there is a lot of body roll and weight transfer going on that makes it very difficult to stay confident and requires A LOT of small adjustments at the wheel.
When entering a corner at 40-50MPH the entry feels numb, lots of body roll and understeer. When you cross the apex and lay into the throttle you go into a strange transition between understeer/floating/severe oversteer and then you rocket down the straight away.
At low speed the steering rack makes it difficult. The steering wheel shuffle and having to let go of the wheel when the back end comes out makes for tough work and tons of steering inputs. The rear end has trouble getting traction out of the corners and makes for a smokey exit. If you're not ready for the back end to come out under 30MPH you can end up in the wall or gravel.
The worst part about the E55 on a road course is the gearbox. Down shifts are fine, it's the upshifts in the corners and exiting them and having to time the upshifts right for when you hit the point where you need all the power and don't want it to shift. It has a mind of it's own and again, makes you feel disconnected from the transmission.
The only rewarding experience in the E55 is to be the only Mercedes on the race track, untouchable on long straights and just the brute force this thing delivers coming out of a corner when executed properly. It's a machine, it will certainly test your skills. Not a car those that can't handle every single thing being thrown at them all at once. Lots going on with little feel and requiring lots of input with no confidence it'll actually do what you think it will do.
Happy Tracking
Last edited by 2000UZJ; 01-16-2015 at 03:22 PM.
01-16-2015, 03:46 PM
#5
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05 E55, 07 ML500
Coilovers such as KW or BC Racing, a quaiffe LSD and bigger tires all aound is about as far as you can go to improve the handling.. I have the quaiffe and bigger tires and it still handles like cr*p as far as I'm concerned.. 90 plus percent of my racing is in a straight line however... Good luck...
01-16-2015, 04:16 PM
#6
Coilovers, you cannot improve this car's handling without them period.
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01-16-2015, 05:34 PM
#9
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Aready did the coil over swap and better brake pads. I am going to remove the front springs and measure them to see what the rate is and bump it up from there. Yea I know all about suspension stuff as I have road raced, auto crossed my Mustang for 20 years, made 842hp to the tires on some of the fastest tracks around and after buying this E55 could not believe how "disconnected" it feels when turning. Might just do sway bars and leave it....plus its real heavy but so much fun when screwing around. As a side benifit when I enter the top speed chalenge in September at Loring Air Force base this year I know it will hit 200mph LOL
Last edited by SICAMG; 01-16-2015 at 05:43 PM.
01-16-2015, 05:37 PM
#11
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Ducati
Raced mine.
My $.02 - invest in a good set of pads, fresh brake fluid, and cooling mods first. What use is good suspension if you can't slow down in time for the the corner, nor accelerate out of it?
My $.02 - invest in a good set of pads, fresh brake fluid, and cooling mods first. What use is good suspension if you can't slow down in time for the the corner, nor accelerate out of it?
01-16-2015, 05:52 PM
#12
You are not going to get a nimble handling E55. It's not the right car. Too heavy upfront and the suspension is totally wrong (airbags). Wider tires upfront would reduce under steer. I have had mine on a few road courses and it's a dog. The brakes are all wrong as well. The SBC gives a very disconnected feel and overheats very quickly.
When hitting the corners at 80-90MPH it's there is a lot of body roll and weight transfer going on that makes it very difficult to stay confident and requires A LOT of small adjustments at the wheel.
When entering a corner at 40-50MPH the entry feels numb, lots of body roll and understeer. When you cross the apex and lay into the throttle you go into a strange transition between understeer/floating/severe oversteer and then you rocket down the straight away.
At low speed the steering rack makes it difficult. The steering wheel shuffle and having to let go of the wheel when the back end comes out makes for tough work and tons of steering inputs. The rear end has trouble getting traction out of the corners and makes for a smokey exit. If you're not ready for the back end to come out under 30MPH you can end up in the wall or gravel.
The worst part about the E55 on a road course is the gearbox. Down shifts are fine, it's the upshifts in the corners and exiting them and having to time the upshifts right for when you hit the point where you need all the power and don't want it to shift. It has a mind of it's own and again, makes you feel disconnected from the transmission.
The only rewarding experience in the E55 is to be the only Mercedes on the race track, untouchable on long straights and just the brute force this thing delivers coming out of a corner when executed properly. It's a machine, it will certainly test your skills. Not a car those that can't handle every single thing being thrown at them all at once. Lots going on with little feel and requiring lots of input with no confidence it'll actually do what you think it will do.
Happy Tracking
When hitting the corners at 80-90MPH it's there is a lot of body roll and weight transfer going on that makes it very difficult to stay confident and requires A LOT of small adjustments at the wheel.
When entering a corner at 40-50MPH the entry feels numb, lots of body roll and understeer. When you cross the apex and lay into the throttle you go into a strange transition between understeer/floating/severe oversteer and then you rocket down the straight away.
At low speed the steering rack makes it difficult. The steering wheel shuffle and having to let go of the wheel when the back end comes out makes for tough work and tons of steering inputs. The rear end has trouble getting traction out of the corners and makes for a smokey exit. If you're not ready for the back end to come out under 30MPH you can end up in the wall or gravel.
The worst part about the E55 on a road course is the gearbox. Down shifts are fine, it's the upshifts in the corners and exiting them and having to time the upshifts right for when you hit the point where you need all the power and don't want it to shift. It has a mind of it's own and again, makes you feel disconnected from the transmission.
The only rewarding experience in the E55 is to be the only Mercedes on the race track, untouchable on long straights and just the brute force this thing delivers coming out of a corner when executed properly. It's a machine, it will certainly test your skills. Not a car those that can't handle every single thing being thrown at them all at once. Lots going on with little feel and requiring lots of input with no confidence it'll actually do what you think it will do.
Happy Tracking
I went on a canyon binge for a month with the CLS which supposedly handled better then the E55 and got my *** handed to me by a 2nd gen Integra and 1st gen Boxster.
The kids were nice enough to play with grandpa for awhile and then got tired of playing catch up in the straights and slowing way down in the corners compared to their sleds.
Suffice to say I'm in the hunt for a cheapy miata or s2k
01-16-2015, 06:10 PM
#13
Senior Member
I track mine several times a month. Start with cooling mods first. Trust me. Next upgrade the brakes. Next start with the suspension. K Mac bushings and coil overs. That will allow you to dial in as much negative camber as you need. That being said, it will teach you how to drive a car because it is a difficult vehicle on track. I like it because it is incredibly comfortable. I'm 6'2 and Miatas and the like just don't cut it. On the straights few will be able to keep up. And since you will probably be the only mercedes there, everyone will come and see what you've got, especially after the first session!!!
01-17-2015, 12:50 AM
#14
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Anyone road race there 55 on long tracks? Looking for suspension upgrades . MOST of all quicker steering. Thinking of raising the power steering pump pressure a few pounds at a time to see what happens, These cars feel really heavy in the steering....I know they are heavy cars but there has to be better options.Thanks
No Front Camber or Caster and no Rear Camber.
At K-MAC we saw the need and manufacture bolt-on (no special tools) "Precise Adjustable" single wrench - on car FRONT CAMBER.....
For extra Negative plus increased track width. Result - reduced understeer / improved traction (and lap times) allowing to go deeper into the corners and to hit those corner apex's every time!
With similar Front Caster Adjustable Bushings to improve high speed stability, reduce dive/lift on brake/acceleration and allow quicker turn in.
K-MAC patented design also eliminates the OEM oil filled bushes for better steering response, yet most importantly still maintains full "2 axis" movement! Preventing binding/locking up of arms when travelling through their required arcs.
Plus all K-MAC unique deigns have twice the load bearing area of OEM bushings.
For the Rear - Camber (single wrench adjust -- on car). With the use of heat/thermo gauge allowing precise adjustment for maximum traction!
Again no special tools required and rear can be fitted on car, no labor intensive removal of arms or airbags (if airmatic suspensions).
Rear kit also includes "extra" Toe adjustment to compensate for this new found Camber facility!
01-25-2015, 08:59 PM
#15
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Thread Starter
Great information ....thanks guys....will start putting a parts list together and will be making some upper ball joint adjustments Tuesday when the blizzard hits us on the east coast. 
I just took care of the horrible steering problem and changed how it feels by at least 50% by modding the power steering pump. It always felt like, mostly slow turns, that the engine wasn't turning fast enough to drive the power steering pump, and I was right to an extent but it was the pump pressure that was the culprit and they all drive/steer this way which is a very heavy feeling with the steering wheel inputs. Just the way Mercedes made them I guess.Now she 's quick and dosen't fight me even with one hand steering. Thanks for the information guys...always a big help!!!
I just took care of the horrible steering problem and changed how it feels by at least 50% by modding the power steering pump. It always felt like, mostly slow turns,
that the engine wasn't turning fast enough to drive the power steering pump, and I was right to an extent but it was the pump pressure that was the culprit and they all drive/steer this way which is a very heavy feeling with the steering wheel inputs. Just the way Mercedes made them I guess.Now she 's quick and dosen't fight me even with one hand steering. Thanks for the information guys...always a big help!!!
Last edited by SICAMG; 01-26-2015 at 08:36 AM.
01-25-2015, 10:08 PM
#17
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yeah interested to hear what you did to the pump. I was looking to find a cls55 rack but if the pump can be modded to make it turn faster then thats fine.
Wheel alignment is the best cheap thing I did to mine. Get either the K mac or mercedes crash bolts and dial out as much castor as possible out of the front. Slot the upper ball joints and pull out even more! It honestly transforms the car!!!
Wheel alignment is the best cheap thing I did to mine. Get either the K mac or mercedes crash bolts and dial out as much castor as possible out of the front. Slot the upper ball joints and pull out even more! It honestly transforms the car!!!
01-26-2015, 08:40 AM
#18
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Pulled the pressure regulator out and bumped up pressure by shimming it. I had all the "before"numbers a few months back when I thought of this so I will dig them out and let you know how much more I went. To much will make it steer like a caddy and could make the seals leak but you would have to have crazy high pressure to do that....1500-1800psi
01-26-2015, 11:36 AM
#19
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BenzoBoi and few other coilover swappers said it was a night and day difference.
Regarding the brakes, would a Brembo aftermarket 6 piston brake kit be superior to the E55s stock 8 piston brakes? I've seen a few brake kits on eBay for the E55 and I'm curious.
Regarding the brakes, would a Brembo aftermarket 6 piston brake kit be superior to the E55s stock 8 piston brakes? I've seen a few brake kits on eBay for the E55 and I'm curious.
01-26-2015, 11:40 PM
#20
MBWorld Fanatic!
Just spend your money on top quality pads like carbotech. Forget the different calipers. All the big caliper manufacturers are pretty much going to a 6 piston design now. IMO you will notice a good pad over a better caliper more as theres nothing hugely wrong with our 8 piston setup its just older tech now.
If you are really serious ditch the SBC and get a later model e63 brake booster and system that imo will make a bigger difference than the caliper itself.
01-26-2015, 11:44 PM
#21
MBWorld Fanatic!
Pulled the pressure regulator out and bumped up pressure by shimming it. I had all the "before"numbers a few months back when I thought of this so I will dig them out and let you know how much more I went. To much will make it steer like a caddy and could make the seals leak but you would have to have crazy high pressure to do that....1500-1800psi
Can you give more detail like shim size and how you went about measuring the line pressure. Im quite interested in trying this.
01-27-2015, 02:50 AM
#22
MBWorld Fanatic!
The only thing that changing the Power steering pump pressure is going to do is reduce the effort. Steering ratio is defined by the rack and the rack alone
CLS rack does make a difference but at a cost. The ESP will kick in sooner because it's programmed to read rack position and since you've put a faster rack in it ESP triggers sooner
CLS rack does make a difference but at a cost. The ESP will kick in sooner because it's programmed to read rack position and since you've put a faster rack in it ESP triggers sooner
01-27-2015, 08:46 AM
#23
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E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
Yeah interested to hear what you did to the pump. I was looking to find a cls55 rack but if the pump can be modded to make it turn faster then thats fine.
Wheel alignment is the best cheap thing I did to mine. Get either the K mac or mercedes crash bolts and dial out as much castor as possible out of the front. Slot the upper ball joints and pull out even more! It honestly transforms the car!!!
Wheel alignment is the best cheap thing I did to mine. Get either the K mac or mercedes crash bolts and dial out as much castor as possible out of the front. Slot the upper ball joints and pull out even more! It honestly transforms the car!!!
More here,
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...alignment.html
Last edited by Yacht Master; 01-27-2015 at 04:11 PM.
01-27-2015, 12:11 PM
#25
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13' E350 4matic, 08' E63
I probably won't do this mod, however I am pretty sure the upper ball joints for the E350 sport E550 sport and the E63's are the same part, and likely for the E55 too. I have a pair of them I bought for my E350 and never used. If a member would like a set of them so they can mod existing and still have a pair on the side if needed, or modify these PM me, cut you a fair deal on them. Just thought this might help someone out.
