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I decided to figure out If my intake was costing power. I believe some of you have done this already, but here are my own findings done in a way that I could control that was as consistent and accurate as I could possibly get it.
I did many pulls. back to back and with cool down times. I found that If I did a pull as soon as the radiator coolant temps started to drop, I could get consistent dyno pulls without crazy inconsistent timing dips. The wait time between runs was about 20 min.
I wanted to know how much the filters were hurting power, and just how much the stock intake tubes themselves were hurting power. The stock intake tubes are clearly the main restriction & The K&N filters are still not supplying enough flow. - Keeping in mind I have an 82mm T.B.
Interestingly, the removed filters with stock tubes compared to open throttle body did pretty well until 4500rpm, but that's where the restrictive flow seems to become apparent.
Even more interesting is the larger advantage of the open throttle body vs filtered stock intake above 5K rpm. +30-35hp. It really shines above 6250rpm extending power much better/higher past that point. +50hp @6700rpm.
I will be making an intake tube later and test it. It will be as good as an open T.B. Not to be sold. just for me and everyone's knowledge. feel free to copy it if it works. Denrol might just have one that does. It looks good. But I will of course, just make my own. Mine will no doubt look much like his.
I will then V-band in cat replacement Straight pipes. Then dyno.
Then I will weld in some cut outs before the mufflers. Then Dyno.
Maybe next weekend. I will post results.. BUT.. I am fairly certain with a ported head and long tubes, I can get this thing close to 575-600whp on 93pump gas. BUT, the only way to keep the power consistent might only be with water meth and or a complicated intercooler set up that I truly don't feel like fabbing up. If, after I do all those mods, and water meth (mostly water just to keep things cool) keeps the dyno numbers consistent without having to wait large amounts of time between runs. I will stop there and not fab up a ridiculous intercooler system as I just don't want to. BUT... I will probably continue on with Long tubes and ported heads.
Here is what I did and the results of all that talk. ....
The Runs are as follows.
541 hp - Green line - was with no Intake tube at all. 82mm Throttle body to atmosphere.
533 hp - Red Line - was with stock intake tube, but no filter in it at all.
511 hp - Blue Line - was with K&N filters inside stock intake tubes
Seems like a large increase w/o filters. Others have reported no to very Little gain ..
Maybe the air box spacers from UPD are a legit 10+ hp gain. I still don't think there is much. Gained but your results are some proof there is.
Nice research. If you dyno again, try removing just the intake tubes going to the air boxes as well. Was the hood open or close during dyno runs?
The small plastic tubes were not installed for any of those runs as they weren't a concern for what I needed to know. The hood is always open on any run I do.
Seems like a large increase w/o filters. Others have reported no to very Little gain ..
Maybe the air box spacers from UPD are a legit 10+ hp gain. I still don't think there is much. Gained but your results are some proof there is.
Maybe because they have a stock size throttle body? The difference between stock throttle body and aluminum casting it bolts to vs 82mm and much larger casting it bolts to is a huge difference. I have both to compare. And / or they didn't have the large time frame allowed on the dyno i have and were plagued by high intake temps from back to back runs or comparisons? Leading to no gains from any parts change.
There might not have been much gained from others because they don't have all the bolt on's and potential need for more air. There are many variables per each individual case. In any event, these Dyno's prove to extreme certainty that my current set up will clearly benefit from a free flowing intake. I make no generalizations about anyone else's set up.
With the hood closed you will lose mph with just tb open to air
Proven by sgc and I we had tried that for a few runs always slower, you need to feed air through the tb and there's no air up there
Absolutely. I would never run open Throttle Body. This was a test to verify the most potential. The challenge is, of course, to realize the most of that power through things I can make. This is what I do for a living. If I do not realize all the potential power, but most of it, I still win. The foundation for this goal though is to test and understand what is available. That is what this stage was for. (intake only)
Originally Posted by shardul
nice!
Originally Posted by djempirE55
Awesome digging. I think there's quite a bit power on the table. Thanks for the leg work!
So what options do we have for intakes to get max power?
Expensive carbon fiber one. I think Denroll sells one on EBAY. I couple of options. But not many.. which is why I am going to make one of my own.
Originally Posted by Hulk
Believe it or not the stock ram air configuration works well even with a 82mm tb
Please elaborate. This is directly opposite of the dynos I just posted. What other options of intake have you tried? I'm feeling negativity to my posts through your words.. Have you tried this road with many intake options and would like to explain their challenges or failures so that I can understand? Parts failures are just as helpful as successes.
Expensive carbon fiber one. I think Denroll sells one on EBAY. I couple of options. But not many.. which is why I am going to make one of my own.
Please elaborate. This is directly opposite of the dynos I just posted. What other options of intake have you tried? I'm feeling negativity to my posts through your words.. Have you tried this road with many intake options and would like to explain their challenges or failures so that I can understand? Parts failures are just as helpful as successes.
I believe what Hulk is referring to is that there is a member and there may be members that have run some pretty spectacular times using the stock airbox. One member ran 10.51@132 or something like that using the stock air box & stock tubes. Now granted other factors were involved with that et & trap but the stock box & tubes were used. I chose a different route and went with a custom cai that goes from 3.5" down to 3" at the y pipe into the 82mmtb.
I see. None the less, I will still be trying to capture the potential power and I will test what I make with the hood closed then. I will let you know how much I may or may not gain. Either way, I will share the results.
Interesting results, great you went through all the trouble.
IMO a few people have run mid 11s with stock pulleys/stock boost. Does not mean aftermarket pulleys do not work. Different ways to arrive at similar results. If the largest pulley I want is a 83mm clutched supercharger pulley but want to run 120+mph, I can do it. Sure a 180-195 pulley or equivalent can get me there a lot easier (proven over and over again), but does not negate the other ways to get there (MBH headers, higher stall convertor, TB, dyno tune, etc etc etc)
On a side note. I raced a CBR 600 RR today - in Mexico, dead even. Not even slightly different. It was like he and I were standing still and the world was moving. From a 60 roll. We tried twice. Exact same result. He was pretty surprised. I got a cool thumbs up. Last time I did anything like that was about 10yrs ago. But conditions were optimal - in Mexico.
The factory design is not laminar flow compliant. As Hulk stated, it's the ram air effect of the factory intake that makes it work so well. At higher speeds, turbulence and slight restriction is overcomed by pressure. Nothing to re-invent, really. Keep your ram air set up and try these.
Thanks for sharing, but I am curious about something.
If I were to design an intake for a car for example...measuring it on a stand still dyno with no real representation of air currents at speeds, will not yield proper results
If you want to measure intake and its effects. Either do it on the streets/track, or at some fancy facility with the proper tools to simulate real driving conditions for air current, turbulence at speed etc.
I have been out of the 55k modding seen for a while, but from my own experience. for bolt ons Pulley, TB, Headers are were you made power. Airbox did not do anything for me , but then again it was a stand still dyno.
Off topic, but what's the verdict on the looped fuel rail?
The factory design is not laminar flow compliant. As Hulk stated, it's the ram air effect of the factory intake that makes it work so well. At higher speeds, turbulence and slight restriction is overcomed by pressure. Nothing to re-invent, really. Keep your ram air set up and try these.
I was never going to remove the ram air style system. Improve it a bit, yes. Why would you guys think that I wouldn't utilize this? I even mentioned how my new one will look like Denroll's.
I have never seen those filter containers before. I like it when people show me options they have seen.
Where I feel like the largest improvement can be made is with the "T" that goes into the throttle body. That is where I will spend the most time on fabrication.
Thanks for sharing, but I am curious about something.
If I were to design an intake for a car for example...measuring it on a stand still dyno with no real representation of air currents at speeds, will not yield proper results
Off topic, but what's the verdict on the looped fuel rail?
There is no dyno that I have ever seen readily available that can represent air current at speeds of 100mph or greater. There are a few very rare examples, but lets just say not available to 99.99% of us. SO we do things to estimate power potential.
Keeping it simple. Power was improved GREATLY by completely removing the intake. - hold off on the ram air thought for a sec.
If I make an intake that improves power almost as great, sitting still on the dyno, that STILL uses (the same) "ram air effect" I'd say the potential to capture more power is great.
Whatever the outcome. Whoever is right. I'm certain it is worth looking into.
I was never going to remove the ram air style system. Improve it a bit, yes. Why would you guys think that I wouldn't utilize this? I even mentioned how my new one will look like Denroll's.
You were testing different set ups and we were telling you why the factory set up works so well. I don't think anyone thought anything, really.
Originally Posted by 95ONE
I have never seen those filter containers before. I like it when people show me options they have seen.
BMC Carbon Fiber Trumpets for the Gallardo and that is my car.
$380 x 2 not including shipping from Italy. 6 rwhp compared to factory boxes with K&Ns. Their design claims to be the lowest drop in pressure (turbulence) with a patented cone suspension.
They were great for my ram air application. Once my power started increasing over 550 rwhp, we felt these boxes started to become a restriction.
06-05-2016, 07:52 PM
Denrol might just have one that does. It looks good. But I will of course, just make my own. Mine will no doubt look much like his. 
