Amg63-

so m5 makes about 100whp more than e63s when both are on pump gas tune, but e63 makes about 150wtq more, right?

one has a huge horsepower advantage, the other a huge torque advantage.

I guess this means starting from lower rolling speeds and dig the e63 should be quicker but from higher rolling speed the m5 is quicker?


too bad on stock turbos m157 couldn't push a bit more whp to keep it closer to m5. Seems a bit chocked up on the top end for such a large motor to be down so much on whp vs 4.4l s63tu...

I'm also guessing based on your comment earlier that the car has no torque limit in 4/5th gear that even after they crack the torque limits in lower gears for m157, it won't increase any more whp, but wtq should go up even higher.

Zod

Just something to bare in mind. The M5 are pushing their tunes hard with a few already limping away with issues. The trans for sure is one which will die as many examples have shown up already, even with just tune. some even run race fuel, meth tune and piggy back. They are pushing the envelope until things pop . you could say it's kind of like built up payback for not having proper tuning for their platform for some time .For all the people that cry for DCT, go read up on maintenance cost for that bad boy....better yet go read what they need to do and how to maintain it if its modded...

2nd thing to take into consideration, this boards sample is mainly USA based with very few from the EU. Based on what we have seen, the German tuning companies are the major players for our platform. I mean since 2012 all we really have is ECU tune and turbo swap, which seems held back by software, or better yet lack of.

gaspam

M157's are more like 700 wtrq... same as M5

I've only seen a few outlier M157 around 750, so 700 is more normal... I am at 700 with tune and catless downpipes, and even then renntech said mine was one of the stronger M157's they have seen

gaspam

very true indeed... I have seen at least 3 M157's in EU/middle east that are running low 10's and trapping 140 which is a lot better than what we are seeing here

otakki

Definitely. When the W212 E63 first came out, the same engine mated to the same transmission, M156 with the MCT has been out on the SL63 and S63 at a higher tune more than a year, I believe. With this new W213 E63, it's a completely higher tuned 4.0TT mated to a brand new MCT 9 gears. Likely lots of bugs to be worked out.

notatroll

Lots of good info here. I just want it to be a top end monster!

Amg63-

700wtq on stock dct? I highly doubt it can handle that long term without a tranny upgrade. Also must be a very aggressive tune. Most tunes I've seen for it don't push more than 650wtq on m5 on pump gas.

M157 I still think has the edge from a lower speed starting point against m5 when both are tuned

Amg63-

i agree. No way stock dct can handle the torque we can on m157 with tune. After a while 700wtq will most likely kill it.

Eurocharged even with tune snd and downpipes is only pushing 650wtq from m5. They are probably scared to push any harder because of what your saying.

So when both are tuned reliably, the e63 would have the low speed advantage, but m5 still has top end advantage with significantly more whp on the tune.

Amg63-

i think m5 is better for that.

E63 is more of a bottom end monster

gaspam

they are handling way more than that with just a clutch upgrade (about $3500 installed)... the M5 guy that ran the 9.9 @140 (he has 142 traps as well) is at about 857whp/ 862 wtrq ... for trans just has upgraded clutches

http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...8-psi-of-boost

http://www.boostaddict.com/content.p...eel-horsepower

notatroll

Bottom end monster? Thats funny because we cant even access the full potential of our bottom end advantage due to tcu limiter... The m5s are getting same or at times better 60ft times at the track.. that makes the m5 better bottom and top end... What makes e63 better in my view is that we dont need race tires and upgraded clutches to runs 10s.. But if we are talking about full on race car than I think the m5 has advantages in every category right now. I think this new gen e63 is going to be a game changer with new developed engine and awd! Cant wait to see the new e63 against the new m5 when they are released.

gaspam

very true... m157 would be a bottom end monster if the tcu didnt intervene, but it does.... kinda like usan bolt wouldnt be fast if his stride was limited to 35% of his natural stride

Amg63-

im not so sure the new e63 won't have similar torque limits in the TCU like the current model. I'm sure they are still afraid of too much torque on the drivetrain.

As for m5 being better on bottom end, I wasn't at all talking about when both cars are setup to full race trim.

I meant on street trim (where most of us are driving these) on regular street tires, and both being compared on pump gas tune without any mods dumped into clutch packs on the m5 to strengthen its transmission to handle crazy tunes.

So with tune only on both in street trim, the e63 even with the initial lag and torque limits in place will beat the m5 from a stop or a low speed rolling start.

Good luck getting traction on a tuned m5 on street tires below 40mph or from a stop. E63s will smoke it. On the highway, I would say m5 has the advantage starting from a higher speed rolling start.

Amg63-

i think Zod was saying that there are many cases of even just tune only m5 killing the transmissions.

He obviously means people doing tunes on them without upgraded clutch on the transmission.

While doing that is an option to allow for the m5 to run more aggressive tunes, I think the average owner is looking to usually just slap a tune on it that will stay reliable on the stock dct and be done.

So if keeping dct stock with tune vs e63 with stock MCT and tune, I think e63 can handle a lot more torque than the m5. In this scenario I think they would match up very close in speed with m5 having top end advantage, but from lower speeds where low end torque is a greater advantage the e63 is the faster car.

Zod

While it seems rosy it is not that entirely, again for all the DCT lovers out there, there are many threads on different forums, but lets use this as a reference, as it has pics and is informative

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1299471

check out these posts from the same thread

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=50
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showpos...7&postcount=52
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=63
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=65
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showpos...8&postcount=66
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showpos...3&postcount=68

so you can get an idea...going fast is not cheap nor is it as reliable as one might think. Frankly we are getting turned off my weistec style downpipes, as we do not want the chargers associated with dropping the engine to install them...
Here you have to drop the trans as a routine maintenance if you want it running right. God help you if the shop or dealer you deal with can not do this modification right, as you will be paying some big $$$, not to mention down time

Also to take note on, this new found power for the M's is fairly recent and people keep pushing them (limits are not all clear yet for the long term)
It is however nice to see such level of vendor support and progression in modding!!!

gaspam

i think in the thread he said is getting ready for 1500hp but he also said at current power levels (~850whp) the dct, with just clutch upgrade, has held up fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by ur20v
Ram, did your DTC give up, blow up, start slipping or is this just ready for the next push in the power war I think you are allready wining?


Originally Posted by allmotor_2000
It has held up fine - but getting it ready for the next level :-)

Zod

he didn't use the trans in that thread as it was not done. Ended up using one of their spec X ones. Said they found mechanical damage on his or something along those lines. so in essence 2 trans
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=112

my point is its not just slap on and all is good, far from it. This power has a price and only recently have they gotten it...I have a feeling more things will show, as with any new platform going into the heavy modding sean

vdubpower

michelin ps4s on this bad boy...need more sizes to come out for my 19s

MBWorld Editor

Figured the front page would appreciate that vid too...
https://mbworld.org/articles/drift-m...ooks-like-fun/