LS-190 **V8 engine swap with pics**
 

removed steering box and linkage
cut out crossmember and cut holes in trans tunnel
mounted steering rack on new cross member (w210 rack)
Attachment 385504

dropped motor in....motor is a "16 valve"...LS1 GM V8, alum block and heads, C6 exhaust manifolds, GTO motor mounts/brackets and front sump pan
Attachment 385505
Attachment 385506

ac compressor fits nicely
Attachment 385507

patched up the trans tunnel.
Attachment 385508

cut rear lower control arm pivots and patch them up(for extra exhaust clearance)
added crossmember to framerail supports
Attachment 385509

added some seamsealer and undercoating
Attachment 385510

made a pcm(powertrain control module) mount
Attachment 385511
Attachment 385512

finished painting underhood
Attachment 385513

made a fusebox mount....powers all the engine/transmission stuff
Attachment 385514

made radiator lower support crossmember....radiator is 26X19
Attachment 385515
Attachment 385516

about 4 1/2 inches....radiator to waterpump
Attachment 385517
more to come...

53 views and no comments?

Hey, I'm impressed!
 

Looking good Gen3Benz,

Keep posting updates as you go along....I have the head off of my 2.3 due to a bad head gasket and took it to the machine shop to have it checked out. As I was looking at the engine bay, I was thinking how nice it would be to have a V6 or small V8 in there. My first thought was the cross-member and wondering if it could come out to allow for oil pan clearance...you answered my question.
Looking forward to seeing more photos.

Dave

All of us who have looked, see it on the forums :p

yeah, your right.....I have it on every one I can find.....Maybe I'll start a thread on the russian 190 site.

Hey you should post this on
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=28,
they'd love it. Cool ass swap BTW!

wow great job,looks nice.
and i'm sure that is a lot of work.awesome!
want to see more pics...

Hey what trans and rear end are you using. Details man details!

looks good mate

that power in such a car will make it a weapon

a couple of questions

Why such a "low tech" v8?

Why a v8 in the first place?

I hope it all comes together for you...:)

Oh, good to seethere is an acre of space left in there...my C32 conversion should go very well then in a couple of years.

That low tech V8 is lighter that any inline 6 and makes amazing power while getting great fuel economy. Try to argue your point with your fellow Aussie LS1 fanatics and see how far you get.

More compact, lighter, cheaper parts, more power.

What "high tech" V8 would be an alternative?
Be sure to find one this small and light, makes 350 crank horsepower(stock), unlimited aftermarket parts, with a transmission/wiring harness/PCM/accy's for $2000.
I'll be glad to check it out.

The LS series engine(generation 3 chevy smallblock.....hence Gen3Benz) are light years ahead of the gen 2 chevy smallblocks.
'08 L92(same architecture but gen 4) escalade motors are running VVT technology and the aftermarket is going to explode with it.

Why a V8? They sound the best.

yeah, thats my home page.
I'm going to post up after its running.
Transmission is a 4L60e with a 3600 stall converter.
Diff is going to be stock until I lunch it, then a 8.8 ford explorer diff on a modded subframe is going in.

Lots of Holden fans for sure.

[QUOTE=coupeluva;2407290]Im not denying that the LS1/LS2 engines are great. Monstrous torque and as you say great aftermarket support. I have no clue about the weight.

A merc V8 wouldnt have sufficed? Or a C200K / C32 AMG conversion was not on the cards. I suppose putting a GM V8 in an MB doenst do it for me.

I personally hate the LS1 bogan culture. It exists everywhere in Australia. The culture in Oz is jap turbo stuff, euro style/class and the bogan aussie V8 driver.

Im all for your conversion. Its unique and going to be reliable/cheap with the aftermarket support available (CAPA, walkinshaw, Harrop etc.)

I think i covered the 2 posts above.:)

Which benz V8?....M119? no thanks...larger and heavier.
M113?....DAS-2....would need the key to make the engine run......along with the C32 M112. Lots of work...or aftermarket EFI.
How much do C32 engines cost with harness/computer/accy's?
More than $1500?

HP per dollar is alot in my book.

A chevy V8? are you kidding me? Should've put a Rotary in it:rolleyes:

A rotary? No torque and no reliability. Especially the turbo engines. Plus poor fuel mileage. I had an 85 RX7 w/ the fuel injected 13B. I didn't keep it long. Rotary is a bad idea.

Boosting a 1.3 rotary to the 400HP level would require gas blended with race fuel....would get expensive.

I'd also like to mention that no NAPA auto parts were used in this entire build.
That too would make the car un-reliable. :)

A little turbo 20B would be nice...

Oh well, you live and you learn.

wow
 

Correct me if im wrong , but is this the same variation low tech v8 thats been eating BMW M3'S 911's and a few other exotics to the point where they banned them from 2 race events in japan and belgum?

Awesome swap! I've been thinking about doing a swap in my car for a few years, but I'm back in school and don't have the cash now.

How much is the swap running you? Pm me if you don't want everybody to know. Thanks. :y:y

$2300 car w/ evo2 kit
$2000 motor/trans/harness/pcm
$2000 cam/upgrades/tuner/torque converter(optional, not need to run)
$1400 wheels/tires
freebie: sweet trans cooler with electric fan
add ~$1000 for misc stuff to get it finished
still going to buy shocks and lightweight seats.

everyone needs a money pit right?

It runs!
Makes some loud alternator squeal when I rev it up, need to mess with that later.
My aluminum expansion tank didn't come yet so I rigged up my coolant fill funnel.
Also need to bump up the idle a little with this cam.....all in good time.
heres the link....
LS-190 runs!

I mounted a ford t-bird/lincoln mk vIII cooling fan to my radiator....fits like it was made for it.
Found some radiator hoses that fit perfect.
I'll take some more pics tommorow.

Sounds nice! I have always thought my 190 was a slug, would be cool to see how it acts with 350 hp.

Dude, that's brilliant!! I'd be lying if I said I didn't have dreams of putting an LSx in my '02 C240. :D What cam did you go with? It sounds suspiciously like my old '99 Z28, which had a Thunder Racing 224° single-pattern, .561" lift, 114° LSA bumpstick.:y

I see you went with a '97/'98 engine; bear in mind if you ever feel like you need more displacement (say going to a 383, 408, etc.), that particular block has thin-wall cylinder sleeves and cannot be overbored without resleeving the block.

If you haven't tuned the PCM yet, I strongly recommend HP Tuners. It's a highly flexible and user-friendly tuning package that beats the snot out of LS1Edit IMHO. But you say you're a regular over at LS1Tech.com (I'm Nightclaw over there, but haven't posted in over a year), so you probably already knew everything I just wrote... ;)

Great job so far!:wootrock:

Yep, 224/224 .563 114LSA

Went with the '98 because it was a good deal.
This motor will see plenty of nitrous, so displacement is of little concern.
It I feel the need for more power in the future I might build a L92 derivative.

I use EFIlive.
I have use it since it was scanner only and have upgraded to the latest.
I have tuned a few customer cars with it and it's very powerful.

Im Gen3Benz on LS1tech.
I will start a thread in the conversion forum there soon.

BTW, converting your W203 to an LS1 would be a snap.
Already has rack and pinion and a V motor.
I have looked under a few and have been looking for one with a cooked engine, just for that purpose.

Damn I'm good! :D Nice choice of cam - it's an excellent all-around performer. It'll also pass CA emissions no problem with a good street tune (if that's a concern for you; oh wait, you're in AZ; nevermind! ;)), and loves 1-5/8" long-tubes. My Z28 (M6) made 330 RWHP and 382 RWTQ untuned with that cam and FLP long-tubes.

I always forget EFIlive will flash a PCM now; guess I've been something of an HPT nutswinger for a while... :p:

Fitment wouldn't be a problem I expect; body controls though would be a royal beyotch, getting the anti-theft, smartkey, yadda yadda all working with the LSx. Unless I went with an LS2 and GM E40 PCM which talks to the body and sensors via CANbus - which the C-class also uses -and figured out how to get the Benz body electronics talking to the E40. Hmmmm.....:naughty:

Just a quick suggestion if I may. You mentioned (and I see) that you used a GTO front-sump oil pan. A problem with the sump being in front of the steering rack is that there is nothing to deflect road debris away from the oil pan like there is on the F-body and Vette. Anything with any kind of mass gets up between the radiator and oil pan (or if you overrun onto a parking berm), and you could be looking at some pan damage.

GTOs shipped with a skidplate that protects the vulnerable oil pan specifically to address this issue. You might consider fabbing up a shield of some sort, or retrofitting GM Part #92078567 (which would require a call to Australia, and probably not as effective as a custom fab for your project). More info and pictures here: http://www.ls2gto.com/forums/showthr...te+part+number

A lot of people over on LS1GTO.com pull their skids off as a weight saving measure, but I know of at least one person who actually saw a benefit from it when things went upside down during a meet-n-greet demo ride. Just something to consider. :)

-B

The front crossmember sits lower than the oil pan. But I will most likely make an aluminum skid plate for the sump.
Also my front bumper will make a very loud noise if I hit a parking berm, telling me to hit the brakes.
Only going to really get on this car on the freeway, nice and flat.

Ah, I see that now. I saw the pic with the engine placed before the crossmember was added, but the one right below that pic shows what you mean. My bad. Carry on then...!
:D

that youtube link made me giggle. I love horsepower cars and miss my jetta very much. I know jetta... but with a vr6 and a gt35/40r turbo I made a bit over 500whp. Shocked the **** out of people, as I assume your car will. LOVE the project, absolutely awesome!! I will be watching. Can I see pics of the whole car?
Thanks andrew

I have to put my 19's on and springs back in to get the full effect.
Not much of a looker right now.

bad wheels, bad paint, bad fender gaps, lots of bad.
Attachment 385399

lots of bad?? You have a sick motor in it. Its a start. Plus the evo kit in nice. What are the plans for the outside?

Bright white paint, know a guy who will do the paint and body for a good price.
Lower the suspension and put on my 19's

Autoweek 11/5/2007: Mazda Celebrates 40 years of Rotary Thinking...

LOL, doesnt work, back to the drawing board, doesnt work again, back to the drawing board....you would think that they would learn after 40 years.

I dont mean to hyjack your thread on that Gen3Benz.

I know the perfect place...Who will paint it? Ivan? I have been thinking about painting my coupe. When that diesel motor blows up, its going to get a V8!

swap details
 

i am going to be putting v-8's into two 190e's.just wondering if you want to give up some knowledge? possibly make a couple more x-members or ? also what do you have invested in that rack+pinion?

wow, awesome project...

I would like to see a video once the car is done.
are you doing the work or a shop is doing it for you?
Good jod looks well done

It's been a while since I have updated...
tanktube67,
Cant wait to make vids of the car driving.
It moves on its own power now, no more pushing.
I do all the work on the weekends at my shop.

Now for some pics...
Mounted an aluminum expansion tank with some tabs welded to the bulkhead, need to repaint a little.
Attachment 385272

Used some heat shrink hose clamps on the coolant tee's, look pretty sweet IMO.
Attachment 385273

Painted the removable center bulkhead piece and mounted the flexible trans dipstick and passenger side brake line.
Attachment 385274

Made some custom brake lines, also my 180 degree braided fuel line fittings. I need to do something about the ugly master cylinder reservoir, this works for now.
Attachment 385275

Running low speed fans(20A) through ballest resistor and high speed fans(40A) through 80A continuous duty relay.
They both have thier own relay in the fusebox, controlled by the PCM which I have reprogrammed to run a 2-speed single instead of 2-speed double fan setup.
The large battery cable going towards the engine routes all the way to a firewall pass-through next to the starter. I ran an SL battery cable from the other side to the trunk.
Attachment 385276

Had a guy at a body shop I know paint the front fenders...
Attachment 385277

and front bumper.
Attachment 385278

The rest of the car will be painted soon, now that I can move the car without pushing.
Slowly but surely.

Adam, its coming along well. What is a good source for AN fittings as you have?

Austin, PM me your phone number so I can call you about the strut bar and shock mount setup.
I got the fittings and hose at Pluming department @ summit racing
Army Navy(AN) everything, but your gonna have to learn to measure in 1/16th of an inch and not MM's :)
The trans cooler lines will be braided steel also, still need to find the perfect trans cooler.

any news here?

No news since my last update a few days ago ^^^
Im gonna work on the painters car while he strips some of the body kit panels off to prep them.
I need to take a bunch of pics of the crappy bodywork before its transformation.

Keep us updated. This is a really cool project :)

View 3855, I like what I see, Keep up the good work!

Wow. Very cool project.

:yumyum: updates?

Pretty much just got all the widebody rear fender flairs off.
Previous owner did a major hackjob putting the kit on.
Already started cutting one side to make room for the 10.5" rear wheels.
Took the trunk lid and rear bumper home from the paint shop.

BADASS car dood!!

now that is freeking sick looking awsome work :y

Don't know if you had seen this, sorry if you have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOXRcRVOSCY&feature=user

Keep up the good work!

awesome, wish i was in az to see this

Need updates............ : Drool :

Cutting the rear fenders to clear the rear tires, will need to patch up a little.
Installing the lowering springs and the 19X10.5 wheels tomorrow.
Broke my camera in Mexico so I wont have pics until I borrow a camera.
Should look pretty mean with the 285 tires I have on them now.

I took a pretty long break after my gf moved out but I'm working a little now.
Only really work on sundays but I need to change that.

now that's what i call an awesome project! :y
good job!

:stick:

:stick::stick::stick:

updates? we need more!:y:crazy::zoom:

Sorry for lack of updates....been partying too much...
Its too fun driving this thing into the shop.....i need to get it on the road..

Mate, this thing is awesome, definitely keeping an eye on this thread. Hurry up and borrow a camera, i want to see more of this 346E, especially with 10.5 inch rims under its bum.

I'd love to see this race Toby's 5.0L Ford V8 small block Ford 354; 450hp/410 torque at the crank and runs with Z06 Vettes on the track.

:-) neil

Actually worked on the car today, patched up one of the rear fenders.
Car will be ready for paint one day.
Also made a scaffolding to hold my rear diff while I modify the rear subframe.
I had a dream about my car so I will work on it alot more now.
Didnt go to the lake this weekend...heres my ultra 250....250ponies...does 65mph on my gps, stock!
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...shiznit096.jpg
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...shiznit091.jpg

Good to hear that you have eliminated the other project hampering distractions from your life :y (j/k)

not to hi-jack but is this Toby the ex pro racer outta Charlotte? I rode in his car two years ago on a track in SC. Sweet setup.

That's the one!

:-) neil

That was an awsome car. Thanks for verifying. He was my instructor at an HPDE I went to.

Wasn't that for sale a while ago?

Any pics of the new paint job?

Ok, I just joined because of this thread!!! We need to see some updates please!!! I'm a Ford guy and picked up a 190 E for a fun daily driver. I've had it 2 days and am already eyeing up how I could stuff a 347 under the hood.

Yep, that beast of a 190E is still for sale.

:-) neil

PM if you're serious, and I'll get you in touch. It's about $9K.

do you have a pic of the stock crossmember?.....There are many different Ls based oil pans to choose from and I will be building one of the and designing a kit as I go when spring rolls around......how has this affected the handling? I would think that it would be unnoticeable with the LS1 alloy block, but I will be installing an LM7 engine with a performance cam.....also what is the lowest ratio Ring and pinion that can be had for these models and can LSD be found for them?.....Thanks for any reply

damn, this is dope...I love frakenswaps like this. Totally better on the horspower/dollar ratio. But of course you have the detractors who say putting a domestic mill in a benz is heresy.....Their the ones who see nothing but tailights! Just like in asia where people are putting SR20DE-T's and S2000 motors in these cars and E36 BMW's...Awesome!

Hi there i have seen your project and its absolutely awesome, you say the LS1 probably weight less than the 6cyl , i wonder will you use 6cyl springs or 4cyl springs for your car? And what is the whole suspension setup? Keep on the good work :)

No pics of the stock crossmember. You could maybe modify the sump on the GTO pan and retain the original crossmember.
Stock steering box will be very close to the engine.
It would require custom headers with the exhaust routed to the passenger side.
You can get 3.67 gears for these diffs and LSD's are in the 16v's
I'm going a different route and mounting an 8.8 ford explorer diff into a 190 rear subframe.
Unlimited gearing and locker options with that diff.

WW210 Rack
 

Hi Gen3.., can you tell me a little bit about the W210 rack. I'm converting an e28 M5 steering from a recirculating ball steering box to a rack.

Can you tell me what car the W210 rack is from, the ratio, and length of rack shaft only. An the most important part.., is the W210 a rear steer rack ? Steer behind the wheel hub.

Thanks, appreciate the help.

Philo.
____________
88M5

W210 rack is from a W210 chassis mercedes e-class 96-02
I would have to measure the rack shaft...dont know the ratio...you might be able to find the specs online
It is rear steer.

SICK!! this is insane!!

more info !!! please
 

are you using the stock springs on the front? and do you by chance have a template or notes on the crossmember?

also why are you changing the rear diff? I thougth the stock diffs were good for 300+ hp?

:bow:

stock springs
no notes on the crossmember, just built it as I went along

8.8 diff has lots of locker choices

the last few pics dont work ahhhhhhh

So MUCH money on that.... :crazy: :bow:

any updates??

Does anyone know how much tq the rear diff can take? The stock evo 2 + could handle 300hp but this beast will output almost 300 ft tq from idle the moment the pedal is mashed.

That looks like it is a lot of work, but I always loved my old 190. Always wished it had more power.

So I'm on a budget, no one cares about my gauge cluster...so i did some cheesy microsoft paint to a pic of a 190e 2.6 just like mine. You like my new black rims with the silver lip? Just a rattle can of black BBQ paint away bab:yy!
I am almost certain I will here no feedback because I and only I loike this old faded OC pos that just keeps going and going and going:zoom:

I think i'll do the sAME THING TO THE 4MATIC //damned phat fingers...

Next Swap Kit
 

I will be making a Basic V8 swap kit for this car next spring. I have built a kit for and now swapping in an LM7 5.3l V8 into a Porsche 944. The Benz 190 will be fun to do. I just don't like the steering box. I am curious if a front sump oil pan from an LS series would be better for keeping the stock 190 steering set-up.....If you guys don't know, the 4.8, 5.3, and 6.0 ltr motors can be had for nuthing and compare nicely to the all alloy LS motors at @ 1/4th the price. I got a 43K miles complete motor.access. and harness for $600 and parts are dirt cheap, the LS cams, heads, intake swap right over......

This is an awesome swap. Love the choice with the LS motor, definitely the best v8 for this swap. Keep posting! We need more pics!:y

still no update??
 

did this swap die??

Nah.
Just in hibernation.

Building other projects....upgrading my trucks stereo.....adding parts to my jet ski....working on other peoples cars.....and last but not least....general laziness :D

Ordering exhaust tubing....at least thats what I keep telling myself.

Have to send some w124 wagon hubs to south carolina to have them broached for cobra spline to accept outer axle tripods.

Evo fenders + bumper
 

Hi, I wished to get the same fenders and bumper. Where did you buy it?

Where are more updates? Maybe is some news about this project?

Must have been a failure.... :nix:

Seems that the V8 engine sound was started. :eek:

JEEE this is amaizing :eek:

I can start my lawn mower too, but I can't drive it around either :D

This is badass!!! :y

nice....
 

Did this ever get finished?
Dude, you gotta get this thing done to shut up all those naysayers. ....
I'm working on one with a ford V8 and 5 speed.

Anybody...anybody?

Hey OneTwentyFour,

Not to derail the thread, but I am planning what almost sounds like the same thing that you are doing with your W201. My plan is a 351W stroked to 427ci and a either a Tremec T-56 Magnum 6-speed or TKO 5-speed. How about yourself, what are you working on dropping in specifically?

Cheers,
190E AMG

351w to 393 stroker with an R154 supra turbo 5 speed. I'm starting off carrbureted but plan on multi point EFI in THE future for disability and power. I'm shooting for 450 hp. What's your combo? I don't think there's any chance of hi jack. I think the OP hasn't posted in a while. PM me for details.

BUMP! I would like to do this but with a ls2 TT ;)

You're gonna rip the car in half.

JK!!!
Just giving you a hard time. I'm the last on here to give you a hard time about a V8 swap in a W201. I'm still rounding up a few more parts for mine. A TT set up will put you at over 800HP on a stock LS2 with just a few upgrades and tuning. Alot cheaper than any MB power swap.

BTW, you can't go wrong with an all alloy V8 with that kind of aftermarket support.

Are you doing a swap as well?
I think it would be a pretty cool project. ;). Evo II body kit and wheels. Massive V8 powaa!

Yes. I'm putting together a Ford 408w v8 with a 5 speed manual trans.

Thats going to be awesome! Are all 190E have the same shell?

With some minor differences for diesel vs. gas or 4 vs. 6 cylinders. But the basic shell is the same. What year are you starting with?

I havent even gotten a shell yet. Just been thinking the idea over.

Only drawback is that there's not much supermarket support for suspension and things of that nature, but there are people that are diehards like one of the guys at groundcontrol.com they have a very nice coilover set up based on koni dampers. Not cheap street stuff but serious quality stuff in spirit of the DTM heritage of this car. I see you're in VA. Check with allofcraigs and do a title specific search for 190E. Very usefull tool. Let me.know if I can help in any way.

My brother has ground control on his 190. VA isn't too far

Yeah the konis are very nice and their workmanship is top notch. Pretty affordable compared to other European brands. Another alternative is bilstein sport with coilover sleeves. That's my setup but doesn't compare to the control of the GC setup.

This sounds like an awesome project! A lot cheaper than trying to put 8 pounds on my 350! LOL

Yeah. The Benz performance market is not for the faint of heart. A lot of people denounce what people like us are doing but you have to rationalize it some kind of way. A 190E is not exactly a collectible aside from the 16 valve of course. So its a very tight and compact package that's just begging for a little more under the hood. Lets face it, the MB v8 engines of the period weren't exactly balls of fire and if I remember correctly it took Cosworth intervention to put our beloved markue in the spotlight at DTM races. Just ass anybody in the know about the life expectancy of a 300 horse 2.5-16 and you'll cringe. Enough jawboning lets build something guys. Ill be posting pics of.mine soon.

Great idea. Not enough MB-LSx swaps, IMO. Most cost effective way to double your power.

Here is the local one I am looking at to buy,
http://norfolk.craigslist.org/cto/3148484966.html

A coilover supsension is a must!

A bit expensive for all the damage. Just make sure the rear corner bump didn't throw the car out of square. How are the emission laws where you are? You may be better off with a diesel shell. And remember it doesn't have to run you'll be remedying that. But if this feels like a winner grab it and don't look back. Lets get this party started.

Yea i still need to check it out in person and hope there isnt frame damage. I do body work and paint but I dont want to make it to much.. He claims it runs and drives. We shall see!

Talk him down.

My 1984 190 is for sale.....
 

My 2.2 diesel titled track car is for sale. When first assembled for the street, I had a Ford GT40 short block in it. Now it is a 354" 4 bolt main motor that is 450hp and 410 torque. The current block came from a 704hp TransAm car and the block is good for 1200hp according to Ford Motorsport. The block has thicker walls, more nickel in it and weighs 60lb more than its 302 counterpart. It also has needle bearings on the cam, bronze sleeves in the lifter bores and the valley is polished. The bore is .070 over and the forged crank is .400 over making it 358"

I've had this car for 10 years and have won TTR in NASA-SE for the last ten years. It is very reliable with a TKO3550 transmission and a Torsen limited slip in a 1993 Thunderbird differential with no CV joint in the axles, all Spicer joints! Each axle is the same as a drivesahft in a one ton truck!
The suspension is dble adj Koni struts front and Carrera shocks rear. It has a Speedway Eng. adj. front swaybar and an adjustable rear bar. All arm links are aluminum with heim joints. The radiator is Fluidyne and always runs cool with a Stewart racing water pump. Oil pan is 7.5qts and has an Accusump attached for positive oil flow. Steering rack is from a VW as the OE box was too large and wouldn't allow for right hand turns!

Brakes are Panoz 4 piston front on 13" X 1.25 rotors and Wilwood 4 piston on 12" X 1.25 rear rotors with E brake still working. Has variable adjuster and a 400E master cylinder. Wheels are 9.5 X 17", 275/40 Hoosiers all around and the car has steel flares to cover them.

The car has been to Watkins Glen, Summit Pt. VIR, Mid Ohio, Pocono, Little Talladega, Charlotte M/S, Rockinham M/S, CMP, Roebling and Barber M/S Park. I may have forgotten some along the way....

Asking price is $14k and is located in Matthews, NC.
Any question, just ask....car runs fine, just being replaced with a faster one!

Pics?

Will do. Found out its the 2.3. What are the differences in the shells? I dont care about the body kit but the actualy frame structure?

I think the 2.6 has more engine bay room and bigger Trans tunnel

I may want to wait and find a 2.6 than :(. I know a ls2 TT is gonna need some room..

The basic shell is the same just has a removable radiator top coresupport brace to facilitate engine removal/installation. Remember that the engine crossmember is not removable on the 190E. The transmission is the same size externally for the 2.3 or 2.6. Just the engine is longer toward the front of the ca making the removable radiator upper support necessary. You'll have to do all of the clearancing for the v8 either way.

So getting the 2.3 isnt a bad idea than after all?

No not at all. Or for 14k you can get Tobias' car and head on down the road. If you're not part of the plug and play crowd like myself you'll want to build your own "little monster". But in all honesty that price is dirt cheap for that level of machinery. How bout them pics, Tobias?

I would rather build mine myself. I would rather ls-2 TT it :).

Space can be kind of tight but if you're using twin turbos then you can mount them in front of the engine with the turbo headers facing forward, then take the exhaust out the passenger side and out the back. It's a bit tighter but you have more latitude not having to run long tube headers down under the engine. If you follow the beginning of the thread you'll see how the W210 steering rack and custom engine cross member are built. This car is built this way due to the rear sump oil pan. If you use a front sump oil pan you can leave the original cross member and just do some creative trimming. Either way a rack and pinion is needed for space constraints.

Hey Tobias, how about some info and maybe pics of the VW rack in your car?

hmm sounds interesting but so far it sounds doable :)

The VW rack is from an older (mid 80s) Golf/Jetta. I had to cut the tie rods down some 2" on each side and then used VW Quantum tie rod ends to hook up correctly to the 124 steering arms and knuckles. I mounted a self centering bearing to the firewall and used a universal steering joint to line up with the rack....all 3/4" stuff. Inside the firewall is altered some to connect up to the original column parts.
The rack is mounted to a separate plate that bolts up under the rear of the pan to the crossmember and then to each side to the lower control arm points. This also stiffens up across the lower control arms.

The reasons to use the Ford motor are three...... 1. distributor in front so engine can go further back and not interfere with HVAC. 2. SBF lighter than a SBC and 3. MB chassis is a front sump chassis and SBF is a front sump oil pan. The VW rack is a rear steer rack.
Understand all this ????

mhmm. Does make since. The reason I want to do a ls-2 is the endless aftermarket that is dirt cheap. Plus boost it and have a good engine management system.

Yet absolutely. Is the rack off a 93-98 VW golf/jetta? And that's the reason I went with a Ford Windsor. A little taller than a 302 but better internal geometry. The LS engines are superior in many aspects especially power production andaftermarket support. Its almost as if GM intended for them not to stay in their donor vehicles.

How is the aftermarket for that motor? Thats carbed right? Most deff want mpfi.

You mean my F-bomb? It's pretty good. With my set-up and premium fuel it's at 486hp with a conservative fuel curve. These engines got very popular in the late 90's with the fox body mustang crowd and long stroke crankshafts being offered cheap...instant horsepower. I just want it powerfull enough to scare the crap out of the M3 and C63 crowd. Maybe I'm being too optimistic....naaaaaa. Oh and yes I'm carbed right now but soon it'll have mpfi with standalone.

Two turbos should give you enough power to scare any amg.. :)

Its going to be hard to put the power down without breaking stuff in a 190 unless you back half it and cut out the floor for a 9 inch rear, th400, chromolly driveshaft

It all depends of what your tire contact patch is and the durometer of the rubber of the rear tires. I've had no problems with the Ford 8.8 IRS diff in my 190 and still use the oe outer hubs and bearings and using Hoosier A6s. Best thing to be rid of is the two piece driveshaft. I originally had an aluminum Corvette diff in the car but was restrcted to the gear choices available so I changed it.

The latest thing that LS engine swappers into Porsche 944s are putting in the whole Vette driveline with a rear transaxle.

You road race race your car not drag race it. A ford 8.8 would work but the stock axle ends are a joke. I know you're making 450 crank HP, and 400 torque. No offense, but that's not much power. Try hooking up twice that power on a hard launch from a stand still. I have about 5 sheared axle ends for proof. You also cut your fenders and quarter panel to fit wider tires.

Tobias, your 8.8 set up sounds very interesting. I know there are lots of gear and traction control choices available for it. Any pics of it available? I'm trying to picture the transition to u joints. How are the hoosiers wearing?

Blackbenzz, weight has a lot to do with the breakage of parts from a standing start, especially in drag racing. We're sure the OE type parts were never intended for such service. You're going to need some combination of chromolly and 300M parts to cope. Also if the spines are worn just a little you can replace one or the other over and over with no good end. They have to wear together or they'll shear under heavy load. Curious about your set up though...

I know weight plays a role. I'm saying the whole splined hub end of the axle would shear off not just wear. the splines didn't wear, it sheared from the base. And yes I had custom axles made with bigger splined hub end. But i'm parting the car out now. I will let you guys drag race your 190s after you do the swap and report back with what happens

Not really planning any drag racing. Sorry to come off like a knowitall. I'm sure you've run the course with part mods and redesign. I'm going to considerable lengths to make mine a street car. But you're right a 9" is the way to go for drag racing. A drag 190E would be an interesting project.

You can drag race a street car. My car is a street car, I just swap wheels at the track

600whp be safe on it? I dont know about you guys but I just want a (FUN) street car ;).

Found a 190 im most likely buying tomorow. A 1989 2.6 I6. 148k miles. power seats, leather. The body looks good like no frame damage. The motor could definitely use a tune up! Getting it for $1089 out the door!

Awesome swap, the LS1 is a great base to make some serious power on the cheap while maintaining reliability, low end torque, and goof fuel economy.

Plan on doing either ls1 or ls2 swap into mine. Depends on budget.

Test drove the car yesterday. Was extremely disappointed. It was on craigslist as a private owner. Owner gave me a address that turned into a dealership...Car BARELY idles. When we drove it the tranny does not shift on time and when it does its a loud and hard clunk. (automatic). Hvac has been cut on with old lines remaining. Missing vac lines on the intake. Oil leak and coolant leak. On the good side the shell looks to be in great condition. No signs of an accident. I may offer them $500 next week. They want $1500..

Can get it for $500. What is a good rear end for the ls, T56 6 speed.

8.8

LOL my friend was just telling me the same thing. Must be a good idea!

Just bought the 190 e! Pictures soon! She sure is ugly!

Loom good enough. The body looks decent. You're on your way.

Getting my new motor and tranny tomorow :)

Im looking into an 8.8 for mine. You're well on your way. When does the surgery start?

is it possible to swap a carbeurated chevy 350 with a 5 speed standard trans into a 95 S500 looking to do this conversion soon wondering how easy it will be the car has a stock 5.0 litre mercedes V8 and removing the engine wiring harness does not affect the non engine electrics of the car hoping to build a dead simple carb'd car out of this car the stock engines wiring harness's on these are notoriously terrible and cost an arm and a leg to replace mine is already toast and just wondering how easy it would be to swap a 350 into it and bypass all the engine electrics, theres tons of room in the engine bay so i would imagine it would fit easily. any advice?

Something about swapping a 60s iron block ohv american domestic engine into a 90s Mercedes to replace its dohc/variable-intake M119 Group C/Le Mans race engine homologation reminds me of the term cutting off your nose to spite your face.

In performance terms, all marketing claims aside the net power of a 70s Corvette 350 "high performance engine" gives away 100-150hp to the M119 with none of the flexibility, efficiency or several other virtues anywhere to be seen. In tech terms the amount of money to re-engineer the ancient OHV small block to qualitive standard of the DOHC M119 would cost as much as rebuilding the the car to a showroom standard, with none of the performance and sheer futility in achieving anything like its marque.

You might as well toss a 60s Sköda engine into it. Why not just buy an American car?
Or better yet, repair the M119 and seek an experienced German tuning shop and custom fabricators to source parts if you'd like to warm it over.

I'm not interested in doing the swap for power purposes or for racing, I'm doing it for fuel economy reliability and ease of repair, where I live (Canada) Mercedes especially S500 parts are difficult to come by and come and an exceptionally high price 700$ for a used wiring harness that only might repair the issues this engine is having not to mention what else it might require, I am however familiar with working on and mainting domestic engines and parts are everywhere for these I could pick up an entire Chevy 350 with a 5 speed transmission for less than 500$ and I will know that it works on the economy side I have some blueprints for a device that uses a throttle body injection system and some other parts to increase furl economy to the point where it will be far better than anything I could do with the factory Mercedes engine, not to mentioned I won't have all these over engineered poorly designed Electrics to deal with (yes they are poorly designed Mercedes admitted as such when they did a factory recall on the wiring harnesses of these cars) I'm just looking for advice on performing this swap not suggestions to avoid it as I am not interested in dealing with Mercedes electrical systems on my car and would just like to put a cheap effective easy to maintain engine into my car.

Hey what trans and rear end are you using. Details man details!http://xin70.info/9.jpg

10000000 thumbs up CONGRADS love that idea putting reliable V8 into that car! you can go track the sh@*(t out of it all day long..........

I am going to do the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

awesome build

Read the thread and understand what it's about before responding. No where at any time did anyone mention an antique iron 350 Chevy engine so I'm not sure where you imagined that from.

This guy put in an aluminum 5.7 from a recent vintage C5/z28 that will make double the power of the MB powertrain , similar weight and likely get better fuel economy as well.

Front page news!
 

Any updates? Inquiring minds want to know!
https://mbworld.org/articles/from-th...truly-awesome/

@Gen3benz


What brake setup you are going with?
Been doing research on a similar project. Looking to do an L33 hybrid 190e racecar build.

Yes, My 190/5.8 is for sale
 

My 190 track car is for sale for sure as it is now retired. I'm in the finish stages of a new faster build, a Porsche 944 with a 358 NASCAR engine in it!!
This will be around 2450 lbs and 700hp/ 8400rpm redline:eek:

For pictures and current information on the 450hp/410tq 5 speed 190, got to Racerconnect.com, then go to track cars, time trial and it is listed there. The only change not shown is that I was running 295/35-17 Hoosier R6 tires on the rear using 10X17" 3pc wheels. These were 'borrowed' from the front of the 944 under construction!

If the car doesn't sell by Spring, it will be parted out. At that time, I will be back to post individual parts with prices FOB, NC.

A few months back I was chasing down some Porsche GT3s at VIR which really ticked them off. Some knew the car, others that were new to VIR or from well out of the area didn't know about it, but learned quickly:rolf:

Any questions, feel free to ask....
Toby

Awesome! I sent you a PM'd @TobiasMB

Let me know if you can help!

Message box empty today...
 

I would try to help you but there are no new messages in my box since March, 2016! Yours hasn't made it in yet? Suggest trying again!

Toby

Don't know what happened,

Sent you another one!
Thanks!

Still have the car. Sitting in the air in the shop....
Talk about the longest project ever.

Knock it out by August for the 10 year anniversary !

What brakes are you running?
Also do you have the original engine mount CAD files?

Encore Please!

Is this project still in the works? Any updates?

Anything? Anything?

Bueller?

Please tell us us this thing is running by now

also interested

What outers did you use for the rack???
 

Making a drift build and wanna go rack n pinion

Hello,
I have a Ls swap 190E vehicle whose project took 5 years.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...bfde4ffc0.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...d9911018f.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...531ec79cc.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...9f98b9dd8.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...b7cc31b95.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...48ec41bf9.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...3e3e733cf.jpeg


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...e504d293d4.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...600fdf82df.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...7f0077639b.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...071bfb758b.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...6cf68999fa.jpg


now i bought TVs2650R supercharge from Magnuson and i am working on its assembly


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...e4ff9cacf1.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...4482556515.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...230fca5a46.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...39f188c4eb.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...197122c846.jpg

Awesome!
what rear suspension did you use?
does the hood clear the supercharger?

Only engine swap was not done in my vehicle. All the undercarriage, and all the mechanical parts of the vehicle, the corvette c6 z06... I bought the suspension from LG Blistein

ok.
do you know if the supercharger hits the hood when closed?